Are respirators necessary when spraying outdoors?

[GU-11]

Sorry for the newbie question, but my last post got me thinking, and a little paranoid.

So far, I've been priming and clear coating outdoors with only a dual layer of surgical masks topped with a Kleenguard NIOSH N95 dust mask for protection. I hold my breath and step away from the area once I'm done. Still, I've got a feeling that this might not be enough. Currently, I'm having a hard time tracking down a respirator mask that sufficiently filters organic vapors [to any fellow KL-dwelling Malaysians out there; if you know of a place that sells these, please do tell].

So, do you think what I'm currently using is sufficient, or should I stop until I've bought a respirator?

[PetarB]

For me, it really depends on the wind. If you have steady wind, or no wind, I wouldn't bother with a mask. But if it's gusty, or suddenly changes direction, and you don't have a mask on... you can be in a lot of trouble! If I'm using a spraycan outside I will usually take it to a quiet corner, and if it's windy, I won't even bother. Otherwise, the pressure of the spray usually carries itself away.

[anime52k8]

The easiest way to know if you have sufficient ventilation and vapor protection is to go by smell. If you can smell the paint, you're breathing toxic chemicals and you don't have sufficient ventilation or breathing protection.

[Jasonc]

The easiest way to know if you have sufficient ventilation and vapor protection is to go by smell. If you can smell the paint, you're breathing toxic chemicals and you don't have sufficient ventilation or breathing protection.

That's probably the best way to look at it, but if you're wondering "is outside still too much chance", it does depend on the wind. I use my spray cans all the time outdoors without a respirator. Common sense; don't spray into the wind, or against a wall to get the back wind of it. I usually snap a little paint from the can to see where the spray is going, then put myself upwind of it, and my target part directly where the paint will go. Never had any problems.

[nightmareB4macross]

That's probably the best way to look at it, but if you're wondering "is outside still too much chance", it does depend on the wind. I use my spray cans all the time outdoors without a respirator. Common sense; don't spray into the wind, or against a wall to get the back wind of it. I usually snap a little paint from the can to see where the spray is going, then put myself upwind of it, and my target part directly where the paint will go. Never had any problems.

Definitely, great advice. If you still feel you need some sort of protectant from the vapors, just use a dust mask with the well ventilated outdoors.

[PetarB]

I have to add, when I airbrush indoors I have a mask on, although my paint booth has excellent ducted fan extraction, I barely even smell it if I don't use a mask. Occassionally, when spraying something like Alclad, I don't use a mask because the pressure is so low.

[GU-11]

Thanks for all the great advice, guys!

Good to know that I can still spray outdoors in relative safety; it's pretty unlikely that I'll be able to find a respirator since I've been searching everywhere for the past two months.

I think I'll see if I can find a spray booth or exhaust fan and use that outdoors. Should be safe enough to use even on a windy day. Either that or I'll just save myself some money and just try to stay upwind.

Thanks, all.

[TehPW]

the fact you use a mask at all makes you better than most retards i know in the states that paint for various reasons (PPE? whats that?)

[Ghost Train]

I'd say that looking at this from a common-sense perspective, you will still be exposed to organic vapors, definitely less than an enclosed space, but it's not risk-free. What you're painting will likely be in front of you, and thus you still risk being exposed to fumes. How far away you're from the vapor is as important of a factor as whether or not it's indoors vs. outdoors (the only exception being a fume hood which will do a pretty good as sucking the gases away, though most people will not have such a facility). I'd strongly suggest still wearing a respirator....

... unless you got some retarded neighbors who will call the police on you because they think you're doing something suspicious on account of wearing a mask.

[GU-11]

Thanks for replying, guys.

the fact you use a mask at all makes you better than most retards i know in the states that paint for various reasons (PPE? whats that?)

Yeah, I had a false alarm a year ago when I mistook an ear infection for something far more serious. I try not to take chances with toxic materials if I can help it.

I'd say that looking at this from a common-sense perspective, you will still be exposed to organic vapors, definitely less than an enclosed space, but it's not risk-free. What you're painting will likely be in front of you, and thus you still risk being exposed to fumes. How far away you're from the vapor is as important of a factor as whether or not it's indoors vs. outdoors (the only exception being a fume hood which will do a pretty good as sucking the gases away, though most people will not have such a facility). I'd strongly suggest still wearing a respirator....

... unless you got some retarded neighbors who will call the police on you because they think you're doing something suspicious on account of wearing a mask.

I figured an exhaust fan is easier to hunt down than a respirator, so I'm saving up for one I saw in a hobby store. Using this outdoors should make up for the lack of a proper respirator. I'll still be wearing a mask just to be doubly safe.

[Vifam7]

I figured an exhaust fan is easier to hunt down than a respirator, so I'm saving up for one I saw in a hobby store. Using this outdoors should make up for the lack of a proper respirator. I'll still be wearing a mask just to be doubly safe.

I'm not sure how hard it is for you to buy stuff online but respirators are easily found on sites like Amazon and Ebay.

[GU-11]

I'm not sure how hard it is for you to buy stuff online but respirators are easily found on sites like Amazon and Ebay.

Thanks, I'll try Amazon, but I'm not a fan of Ebay. What with some of the stories I've heard, it's generally easier to deal with big companies after you've bought something rather than individuals.

[Jefuemon]

Thanks, I'll try Amazon, but I'm not a fan of Ebay. What with some of the stories I've heard, it's generally easier to deal with big companies after you've bought something rather than individuals.

Any luck on using Amazon? Just test ordered with this one

http://www.amazon.com/3M-R6311-Low-Maintenance-Half-Mask-Respirator/dp/B0009F5KDS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319940881&sr=8-1

and it looks like they will ship overseas. I've used a 3M for many years, and really like it.

[Jasonc]

Those definitely will help, but what will probably work almost as good, is simple fabric masks, like the ones you see at the hospital. Cheap, and easy to find, and will do the trick, especially if painting outside.

[anime52k8]

Those definitely will help, but what will probably work almost as good, is simple fabric masks, like the ones you see at the hospital. Cheap, and easy to find, and will do the trick, especially if painting outside.

no they won't. disposable dust masks like this:

Are only to stop particulate inhalation. they don't provide a proper seal and they don't provide air filtration for organic vapors. It's the Organic vapors that kill brain cells, cause cancer and can kill you.

[Viceland]

no they won't. disposable dust masks like this:

Are only to stop particulate inhalation. they don't provide a proper seal and they don't provide air filtration for organic vapors. It's the Organic vapors that kill brain cells, cause cancer and can kill you.

Actually, that's wrong as well (they DON'T stop particles), those cheap hospital mask are used so staff and visitors don't contaminate patients with critters that may be in their exhalation, but you're right about them not having a proper seal (thus not able to stop particulates or filter vapors).

GU-11;

• if you're going to wear a respirator, don't layer, wear the Kleenguard NIOSH N95 by itself for a proper seal if you're clean shaven (get rid of those useless surgical masks);
  
• This N95 will not protect you against organic vapors (only dry particles, and that's at a 95% efficiency, which is fine for this hobby);
  
• Your primer and clear coat; oil or water based? The "N" on your N95 stands for NOT oil resistant... (use an R or P if your stuff is oil based);
  
• For organic vapors (OV), you need a BLACK colour coded filtering cartridge that clips on a half-mask, just like in the Amazon link Jefuemon posted(that example has a particulate filter, a P95, clipped on top of both OV cartridges)
  

This half-mask/cartridge stuff gets complicated and confusing though, and then there's the whole fit-testing issue... so the simpler the better; spraying or painting outside, the nasty stuff gets diluted pretty quickly and the levels are way below threshold limit values, but the strong smell can be scary and annoying. So I recommend you get a disposable respirator that offers protection against particulates, offers some oil resistance (an R or P rating, in case), and helps with nuisance levels of organic vapors (the smell), like in this link:

http://www.amazon.co...;qid=1320028895&sr=1-44

Some of these places should be able to help you out I'm sure: http://www.infopages...d-clothing.html

Disposable means will usually last for an 8 hour shift, working constantly in a contaminated atmosphere, so don't throw it out after 15 minutes for example, it's still good!

Edited October 31, 2011 by Viceland

[GU-11]

A thousand thanks for all the info, Viceroy!

Ever since I posted this on the forum, I've been trying to get one of those "heavy-duty" respirators, but couldn't find any in my vicinity. Most of the placed I googled that might sell these things are either in another state or just plain out of the way.

And thanks for the links. I'm not sure if Amazon ships to Asia, but I think I might be able to find some of the masks at a neighborhood hardware store.

And as per your advise, I'll ditch the extra surgical masks and use just the NIOSH N95 instead.