Gubaba Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Son, you are by necessity a sub lover since Macross series will never ever be dubbed in the west. So its either learn japanese or go with illegal subs. As for what I said, it is the truth. A sub cannot capture the complexity of the spoken language. ...says the Southern Cross fan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Son, you are by necessity a sub lover since Macross series will never ever be dubbed in the west. So its either learn japanese or go with illegal subs. As for what I said, it is the truth. A sub cannot capture the complexity of the spoken language. Wether it concerns animes or films. It has nothing to do with your stupid "sub hater idea". Calling me a sub hater for underlining this fact is like telling someone that 1+1 is not equal to 2 (in base 10). For a given adaptation, a sub will always be inferior to a dub. No buts and no ifs. Deal with it. That's a pretty bold thing to say when dubs took extreme liberties with what characters and the overall narrative was supposed to be going back when it first started. Hell, some made their own franchises and overblown reputations on that mentality while screwing a lot of talented people in the process, and even their own fans in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra__ Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) That's a pretty bold thing to say when dubs took extreme liberties with what characters and the overall narrative was supposed to be going back when it first started. Hell, some made their own franchises and overblown reputations on that mentality while screwing a lot of talented people in the process, and even their own fans in the long run. Well if you want to go the route then who guarantees that a sub is correct ? Especially fan subs out there ? In any case you're right, there are bad dubs, but there are also good dubs. To think otherwise is just plain stupid. Its like saying that all translations of literary works are crap and you're better off reading the in the original language of the author. To be precise when we talk about dubs we have to consider 2 factors : - the adaptation - the VA performance. If the adaptation of the source material is not faithful than of course a dub won't save the work. In the same token, if people translating from japanese and adapting to make a sub take liberties in the source material and change things well that sub isn't worth a dime. Now on the other hand, if the adaptation is correct and faithful and the VA performance is good then yes a dub will be superior to a sub. No questions asked. And in some cases the dubbing VA can have a better performance than the original actors. But to understand this last point you have to be a polyglot and watch a lot of films in different languages. Even the same film in different languages to gauge how the performance of VA change with respect to that of the original actors. So people saying that japanese VA are ipso facto better than other actors dubbing performance are ignorant. To make an example, the seiyuu that played Chibiusa in sailor moon is generally considered to be a bad, a very bad voice actor. Talentless in fact. And yet she was in a lot of animes in the nineties. Does this entails that foreign VA couldn't have a better performance than her in the dubbed version of the Chibiusa character ? Edited March 21, 2012 by Cobra__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Uhm no. The greatness of a show is not in the number of characters that are being killed, mostly without any reason whatsoever. Yes people die in war, but there has to be a reason for their death, it can't be simply because the writer couldn't give a damn about structuring a coherent story. Yikes I introduced too many characters in the show, now how am I going to deal with it ? Let me see, yeah I'll just kill most of them. This is not a good way to tell a story, it is a cop out. And most characters in Zeta act erractly. Most of the times their is no reason at all for what they are doing. Zeta has a higher quality animation for a mid eighties series, but in terms of story it sucks big time. Of course if all you want to see are mobile suits fighting each other then its ok, otherwise dump it. So, you really didn't understand the story then, did you? Part of the story is realizing that people (characters in this case) die, and for no reason, too. While I know you're trying to make a point solely based on your opinion, you're trying a bit too hard to get everyone to see this aimless point of yours. There were a few others that wrote about how they didn't care for it, and left it at that. They're not trying to give a full thesis on why we shouldn't like a series. Personally, I found the show fun to watch, the characters easy to get (if not a little over emotional), and the story makes sense to me. Maybe I'm just on the ball with it a little more. If it was so bad, I don't think it'd be a classic, and it's not just because Gundam is a big franchise. There are plenty of Gundam series and movies that don't cut it. ...says the Southern Cross fan... LOL, I don't hate Southern Cross, but that would answer a few questions.As for dubs vs. subs, this is probably the wrong forum, but I don't care either way. It's ease and comfort with dubs, but it depends on the production team as to just how far from the original translation will go. As for subs, I've seen some bad subs, but the current subber groups out there are pretty damn accurate, and don't deviate from the original Japanese. I think you get the original intent with good subs, but you can also get that with a good dub. I think it really just depends on everyone's personal preference, and shouldn't strike against them for preferring one over the other. The only thing that irks me, is people that get a little pissy because "they only watch subs". Trust me, they aren't any higher up on the food chain because of it, they only think they are. Anyways, to get back on topic, started rewatching Full Metal Panic, after almost 10 years. Can't believe that show is that old already. Watching it just for the heck of it, and it's really not too bad. Also started watching Tenchi Muyo GXP. Freakin' hilarious series. Also been watching Rurouni Kenshin, The Wandering Samurai series. Edited March 21, 2012 by Jasonc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Well if you want to go the route then who guarantees that a sub is correct ? Especially fan subs out there ? Maybe those of us who spent the time and effort to learn Japanese...? Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Maybe those of us who spent the time and effort to learn Japanese...? Just sayin'. Yeah, don't let language barriers act like a clutch to your enjoyment of a thing, Cobra, because guess what? You're watching something foreign that companies may not want to invest in dubbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra__ Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah, don't let language barriers act like a clutch to your enjoyment of a thing, Cobra, because guess what? You're watching something foreign that companies may not want to invest in dubbing. I'm ok with that. I already speak 4 languages, I'm not going to learn japanese just to watch some animes. So for me its dubs and subs, preferably dubs but subs will do of course if there is no other option. This of course limits my exposure to hundreds of animes that will never be dubbed or subbed. I'm also ok with this since I don't pass 24 hours a day, 365 days a years watching anime. I just wanted to stress the point that a good dub has as much a cultural value and importance as a good translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm ok with that. I already speak 4 languages, I'm not going to learn japanese just to watch some animes. So for me its dubs and subs, preferably dubs but subs will do of course if there is no other option. This of course limits my exposure to hundreds of animes that will never be dubbed or subbed. I'm also ok with this since I don't pass 24 hours a day, 365 days a years watching anime. I just wanted to stress the point that a good dub has as much a cultural value and importance as a good translation. But that isn't what you said before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm ok with that. I already speak 4 languages, I'm not going to learn japanese just to watch some animes. So for me its dubs and subs, preferably dubs but subs will do of course if there is no other option. This of course limits my exposure to hundreds of animes that will never be dubbed or subbed. I'm also ok with this since I don't pass 24 hours a day, 365 days a years watching anime. I just wanted to stress the point that a good dub has as much a cultural value and importance as a good translation. And yet your argument seems to be that dubbing something somehow makes it more intuitive, as opposed to watching it with a subtitle translation which maintains too much of a foreign structure to "understand.' Yet you don't take your flawed argument to its natural conclusion. If dubbing something makes it more natual, then the only way to make it "truly" compatible with a viewing audience would be to remake it from the ground up using character designs, locations, & music that is more familiar to the market its being sold in. If this is something you truly believe, then you shouldn't be watching anime in the first place, since it's inception lies in something too "foreign" for you to understand. As for your little smark about illegal subs, last time I checked Macross had been released subtitled over these parts 2 and a half times, of which I won two versions. Not counting Plus & II. All 3 series have a dubbed counterpart, none of which I choose to watch. Yeah, no one said subtitles are guarunteed to be 100% accurate, but they leave the option of the oriignal language there right along with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 And yet your argument seems to be that dubbing something somehow makes it more intuitive, as opposed to watching it with a subtitle translation which maintains too much of a foreign structure to "understand.' No, Keith, let's call a spade a spade. He said "Subtitles are the poor man's dub." Now he's backing away from that stance. That tells us all we need to know, really...right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 No, Keith, let's call a spade a spade. He said "Subtitles are the poor man's dub." Now he's backing away from that stance. That tells us all we need to know, really...right? He seems to be trying to stir th is issue up every other week.....what part of the rt forums did he slink over from agian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegablue Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Black Rock Shooter! Help here. I've watched the original OVA that came with my Figma. Loved it, especially it's style. Now I've started with the Anime which is as impressive in animation and story. Though I'm still uncertain about the otherworld with the megafighting. Is it a place between life and the afterlife? And it acts on the choices of the living? Only watched the first episode, but got a friend to download the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Nash Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Black Rock Shooter! Help here. I've watched the original OVA that came with my Figma. Loved it, especially it's style. Now I've started with the Anime which is as impressive in animation and story. Though I'm still uncertain about the otherworld with the megafighting. Is it a place between life and the afterlife? And it acts on the choices of the living? Only watched the first episode, but got a friend to download the rest. I saw the last episode still little, and I guarantee.It is very good. Just did not like that a serie is very short, but worth every minute watching just to see.....with.....right in the face is priceless. I think at that time, she only thought of a word^^ What will come the figma of Purple Rock Shooter? Edited March 23, 2012 by Old_Nash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegablue Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 What will come the figma of Purple Rock Shooter? Nope, with the very first BRS figma in 2010. Awesome OVA, but the series already appears better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Nash Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Nope, with the very first BRS figma in 2010. Awesome OVA, but the series already appears better. You have the figma BRS from the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnkillingsworth Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Also started watching Tenchi Muyo GXP. Freakin' hilarious series. I finished GXP recently and enjoyed it a lot more than I expected. Despite the simple slapstick comedy and mild fan-service it was better than Tenchi Muyo Ryo-Ohki IMHO. Being a full 26 episodes long helped characterization and the last few episodes were worth it. Episode 24 (I think) was my favorite when Seina finds the mecha robot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegablue Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 You have the figma BRS from the game? Yip, I have that one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GU-11 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yip, I have that one too. Me too. As a fellow owner of this awesome fig, I must recommend that you guys buy the upcoming BRS bike when it's released to make a complete collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Nash Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yip, I have that one too. I need her and White Rock Shooter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I finished GXP recently and enjoyed it a lot more than I expected. Despite the simple slapstick comedy and mild fan-service it was better than Tenchi Muyo Ryo-Ohki IMHO. Being a full 26 episodes long helped characterization and the last few episodes were worth it. Episode 24 (I think) was my favorite when Seina finds the mecha robot. GXP definately didn't get the love it deserved when it was new. The whole "Unko" thing alone was hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frothymug Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Honestly, Cobra, you always come off as judgmental and condescending whenever you decide to voice your opinion on matters (which is quite often, by the way...). Just be aware that when you do this, it pisses people off. If you want to get along here, I'd suggest being more diplomatic and learning to agree to disagree. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 GXP definately didn't get the love it deserved when it was new. The whole "Unko" thing alone was hilarious. That part was very funny. This entire series is just comedy throughout. What makes it even funnier, is the fact that Tony Oliver does like 4 or 5 voices in it. There's quite a few times he's basically talking to himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frothymug Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I was a big Tenchi fan when it started showing on CN several years ago. I bought pretty much every DVD they had and still have them. However, I didn't buy the last two discs of the OVA 3 series. I didn't like the direction it was going and when I found the remaining episodes on the internet and watched them, I was glad I didn't waste any more of my money. Masaki Kajishima must have been smoking some really bad crack when he finished writing and directing his series, which was very masterful up until the beginning of OVA 3. Needless to say, it was like he urinated all over his own work. "Right now, Mugato is so hot, he could take a crap, wrap it in tinfoil, stick a couple of hooks in it, and sell it to Queen Elizabeth as earrings!" I never did get into GXP, but I'm glad to hear that some of you really did enjoy it. Maybe I'll look into it someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Dub? Tony Oliver? I though were were trying to confince people to watch this show! As for Ryo-Ohki 3, guess I'm one of the few that actually enjoyed it. Especially after the mess that was the Tenchi TV canon's way over favoritism of Ryoko (mind you I really like Ryoko, but movie II's resolution was just wrong), seeing the way things were handled in Ryo-Ohki 3 seemed to be in direct response to all of that. Considering how many years it's been out I don't think it's much of a spoiler to talk about the revelations about just how big Tenchi's Earth Jurai family turned out to be, or the whole business with confusing his sister with his mother. Or dad basically saying "yeah, I knew about all of this the whole time." It all seemed to be in response to Tenchi Muyo In Love 1 & 2's over-dramatization of things. The resolution was also a lot more realistic, i.e. existing harem + and Tenchi not alienating any of the girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frothymug Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 For the years before OVA3 released, Masaki Kajishima had talked about how he was going to write a resolution to the Ayeka/Ryoko problem. When he didn't even try to resolve it and dragged us around with a non-sensical story, I can understand why much of the fan base got pissed off. If it's one thing I've learned about Japanese animators, it's that they suck at writing good endings to their series. Must be a cultural difference thing... Anyway, I remember watching the encounter with Z and the goddesses fighting over each other and at some point, I stood up and yelled at the TV, "What the hell is going on?!?" All of this bullcrap about how Noboyuki knowing all about what was going on and every important character in the galaxy descending onto their household for a friendly family visit just went beyond the level of believability precedence that the show had set. I was looking forward to a longer story arc involving Z, and perhaps to see what King Azusa had in store for Tenchi. I was just grossly disappointed in what could have been a great overall series. OVA's 1 & 2? Awesome. OVA 3? Big steaming pile of donkey poo. There was a second Tenchi Muyo In Love movie?? I loved that movie, but wasn't aware of a sequel to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Pioneer released the Midsummer's Eve OVA as "Tenchi Movie 2: Daughter of Darkness." Because of that, they renamed Tenchi Muyo in Love 2 "Tenchi Forever" when they released it. It wasn't nearly as good as the first movie, and for that matter, not as good as the Midsummer's Eve OVA. You can still get it pretty cheap bundled with the other two though, Funimation currently holds the license. http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/UgxKX=mrYUada3j=6b/browse/item/74087/4/0/0 As for the ending of Ryo-Ohki 3, I'm just not sure what you were expecting. Tokimi ark = Resolved. Light hawk Wings = Resolved. We got super anti-Tenchi, and even resolved the issue's about his mother without deifying her. As for the harem resolution, considering the precedent already sent by the Jurai king (i.e. multiple wives), not sure why you weren't expecting Tenchi to choose all of the girls. At this point, I'm not sure if you'd be satisfied with GXP's ending either which takes this ending to an even funnier extreme. Though it also has a nice Tenchi & co cameo showing how they've settled into their lives after OVA 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Guilty Crown ended. Crap ending. Give me my time back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 lol That bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaginpit Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Well finished watching Rinne No Lagrange Boooooooorrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnngggggg Jeez. I will not be waiting around for Season 2! Black Rock Shooter. Why am I still confused? Bad Dubs? Why is anime of late so messed up? And I am disappointed with Guilty Crown Dont really find out what the whole Crystal thing was about Edited March 26, 2012 by slaginpit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Dub? Tony Oliver? I though were were trying to confince people to watch this show! ... No, just making a comment that I liked it, in both languages. (Not saying that you are) I'm not the "Anime Snob" type. Whatever you enjoy works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 lol That bad? Horrible. Too bad though since it had promise. Well finished watching Rinne No Lagrange Boooooooorrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnngggggg Jeez. I will not be waiting around for Season 2! Black Rock Shooter. Why am I still confused? Bad Dubs? Why is anime of late so messed up? And I am disappointed with Guilty Crown Dont really find out what the whole Crystal thing was about I actually was thinking of watching BRS and RnL. Guess I won't now. Nothing is good lately. I'm only watching Shakugan No Shana Final for closure. Last Exile is quite disappointing as well. Gonna start Another soon. Guilty Crown crystal thing....just another Evangelion human instrumentality project-ish plot. Next step in human evolution, human hive mind via crystals which last forever.....blablabla....but most of the story was a convoluted mess to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frothymug Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Pioneer released the Midsummer's Eve OVA as "Tenchi Movie 2: Daughter of Darkness." Because of that, they renamed Tenchi Muyo in Love 2 "Tenchi Forever" when they released it. It wasn't nearly as good as the first movie, and for that matter, not as good as the Midsummer's Eve OVA. You can still get it pretty cheap bundled with the other two though, Funimation currently holds the license. http://www.rightstuf...tem/74087/4/0/0 As for the ending of Ryo-Ohki 3, I'm just not sure what you were expecting. Tokimi ark = Resolved. Light hawk Wings = Resolved. We got super anti-Tenchi, and even resolved the issue's about his mother without deifying her. As for the harem resolution, considering the precedent already sent by the Jurai king (i.e. multiple wives), not sure why you weren't expecting Tenchi to choose all of the girls. At this point, I'm not sure if you'd be satisfied with GXP's ending either which takes this ending to an even funnier extreme. Though it also has a nice Tenchi & co cameo showing how they've settled into their lives after OVA 3. Okay, that makes sense then, because I have all of those movies. Daughter of Darkness was set in the OVA continuity, while the other two were set in the TV continuity. I also did not like Tenchi Forever, but the first one was really good. I had considered the "multiple wives" thing as well, but I am pretty sure I read an interview with Masaki Kajishima and he said it would involve Tenchi choosing one of the girls. Oh well... I guess he changed his mind. My gripe is just that the third OVA was nowhere near as well-written as the first 13 eps. I guess it's more of a personal preference, but I've seen how much nerdraging occurred as a result of the story's conclusion. I took that slice of opinion as representative of the whole fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Nash Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I saw this weekend, the two premiere-chapters of Legend ofKorra. I really liked the animation, has greatly evolved and technological developmentsin the world of franchise. In addition to the friction between the benders and the non-benders. I hope not too long for the day 14 to get to continue watching. Edited March 26, 2012 by Old_Nash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfunk Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Anyone have the old school Capt Harlock or Galaxy Express 999. Amazon has Galaxy express in which I remember some things from when I was a kid,,, mostly Captain stuff which I thought was cool. Picking up Galaxy Express possibly on DVD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron5864 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Still watching Fairy Tail, up to ep. 92 now. Still good with all that crazy comical madness. Started watching Dragonaut. People piloting Dragons as military weapons. Think Evangelion mixed with Sekirei and you get the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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