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I'd agree with you that the legs on the VF-171 Nightmare Plus look a little too slim to accommodate the GU-14B or MC-17C gun pods internally the way the VF-17 Nightmare did. Still, since the VF-171 is a background mecha that doesn't get oodles of screen time, we don't really get a chance to see them using the gun pod in battle more than once or twice prior to the EX upgrade. The stats do say it keeps its gun pod inside the leg, and IIRC the only one we see with a ventrally-mounted gun pod is Alto's VF-171 with the extra armor mounted on the legs (and presumably obscuring the gun pod's loading door).

Wait, Alto never flew a 171. He flew a 171EX, which stores its gunpod on the right dorsal side. Did I miss something here?

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Wait, Alto never flew a 171. He flew a 171EX, which stores its gunpod on the right dorsal side. Did I miss something here?

Nope, the gun on the Arm of the 171EX is the "AVPAGC/MEDC30-EX-A Anti-Vajra MDE anti-gravity particle cannon / 30mm MDE machine gun matrix".

the GU-14B gunpod looks more or less the same as the gunpod from the VF-17, and it's supposedly stored in the leg on the VF-171.

I did find this screenshot on sketchly's website showing standard VF-171EX (not the super version alto uses) with GU-14B's ventrally mounted:

VF-171EXwingpair2.jpg

from here: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Statistics/VF-171/VF171EX.htm

Edited by anime52k8

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It was never released on DVD, not even the bootleg DVD's have the English dub.

But it was officially released here in the USA on VHS. The Japanese subtitles were even removed, so it's a clean video.

mvc-021s.jpg

mvc-028s.jpg

yea, i'm aware of this version. i used to have a bootleg video of it that i bought at a convention back in '87 or '88. that VHS tape has since gone missing. i wanted to get an uncensored version of DYRL dubbed in english. well, the search goes on!

Edited by vf1x

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Nope, the gun on the Arm of the 171EX is the "AVPAGC/MEDC30-EX-A Anti-Vajra MDE anti-gravity particle cannon / 30mm MDE machine gun matrix".

the GU-14B gunpod looks more or less the same as the gunpod from the VF-17, and it's supposedly stored in the leg on the VF-171.

So, the question that I have to ask, then, is if the 171EX has two gunpods on it in this picture, where does the gatling pod go during transformation? I believe that the loadout does not allow for both gunpods. Both pods should be for righties, but since the beam pod is already attached to the right manipulator, the gatling pod has absolutely no use.

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So, the question that I have to ask, then, is if the 171EX has two gunpods on it in this picture, where does the gatling pod go during transformation? I believe that the loadout does not allow for both gunpods. Both pods should be for righties, but since the beam pod is already attached to the right manipulator, the gatling pod has absolutely no use.

it's not a gunpod, it's a cannon strapped to the side of the arm. It can carry the gunpod in it's hand while still having the cannon on it's arm to shoot at stuff.

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Well maybe we should wait for a databook for this... or even a newer toy... speaking of toys... which Valkyries were ever created as toys/models that actually transform?

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I was wondering. Since the VF-171 is an improvment over the old VF-17 Nightmare. And the VF-171 is also more simplefied to allow lesser skilled pilots to fly it compared to the VF-17. Do these improvments make it better then original VF-17, which only very skilled pilots could fly? From what I saw in MF, the VF-171 were nothing more then cannon fodder, and I couldn't help but think the original VF-17, although outdated by the newer improved VF-171, would have fared much better. I would also think pilot performance would count too. So, persay; if someone like Gamlin were piloting a VF-171. Would it's performance exceed that of old VF-17?

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I was wondering. Since the VF-171 is an improvment over the old VF-17 Nightmare. And the VF-171 is also more simplefied to allow lesser skilled pilots to fly it compared to the VF-17. Do these improvments make it better then original VF-17, which only very skilled pilots could fly?

Well, right off the bat I'd say the VF-171 does qualify as an improvement on the VF-17 by being a plane that even average pilots can operate well in multiple roles. Being easier to manufacture and less expensive to produce and maintain is an improvement too, if you're looking at it from an operating costs perspective. It's also mentioned that the VF-171 had improvements made to its canopy field-of-view, aerodynamics, maneuverability, avionics, and operational versatility without sacrificing the payload capabilities or the durability of the original VF-17. The production model in service at the end of the 2050s is explicitly described as surpassing the original VF-17...

From what I saw in MF, the VF-171 were nothing more then cannon fodder, and I couldn't help but think the original VF-17, although outdated by the newer improved VF-171, would have fared much better. I would also think pilot performance would count too. So, persay; if someone like Gamlin were piloting a VF-171. Would it's performance exceed that of old VF-17?

Admittedly, there's something to be said for that, since the VF-171 isn't especially high-performance... at least, not compared to the VF-19, VF-22, and YF-24 derivatives. Based on the "VF Evolutionary Theory" piece in Great Mechanics.DX 9, it would appear that the VF-171 was adopted in part because the UNS/NUNS didn't see the need for a super high-performance fighter until the Vajra threat materialized, and that the YF-24 and its derivatives were pushed ahead because of the (apparently justifiable) fear that the combat performance of the Vajra would exceed even that of the VF-19.

So, on balance, it's not so much that the Nightmare Plus is an under-capable plane as it is that excessively high-performance VFs are necessary to match the capabilities of the Vajra.

Given what's said about the VF-171 in Chronicle and elsewhere, I'd expect a 2059-model VF-171's performance to exceed that of the original VF-17 in at least some respects... not in acceleration or top speed though, given that the VF-17 is lighter and has marginally more powerful engines.

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Thank you Seto. I was just curious. To me the newer VF-171 look like they underperformed in most of MF compared to the VF-17 from M7.But too, I guess it has alot to do with the story. And speaking of engines. Whats the difference between the older thermo engines and the newer ones (are they called stage 2?)?

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Thank you Seto. I was just curious. To me the newer VF-171 look like they underperformed in most of MF compared to the VF-17 from M7.But too, I guess it has alot to do with the story.

I'd wager a fair bit of the disparity there is the plot armor that Gamlin and company brought with them when they boarded the VF-17's, since the VF-171 spends most of the series as the exclusive domain of the unnamed grunts who don't enjoy protection-by-plot. Tossing them an upgrade and a named character pilot improves their lot in the series considerably.

And speaking of engines. Whats the difference between the older thermo engines and the newer ones (are they called stage 2?)?

Uh... well, I don't believe the VF-171 uses the "Stage II" reaction engines, it's using a normal pair of FF-2110's rated at 45,469kgf to the VF-17's 55,000kgf FF-2100's, though it seems that the disparity is more downtuning than an actual reduction in design limits, since that'd reduce wear on the engine and reduce the maintenance costs needed to keep it in service.

Exactly how the "Stage II" reaction engines used on the YF-24/VF-25/VF-27 differ from the reaction engines used by other planes, I honestly have no idea. Given some of the attributes ascribed to the planes that use them, I can only assume they provide greater thrust and better power generation characteristics, since the above-mentioned VFs all have enormous thrust-to-weight ratios and can even operate their energy converting armor (and in the VF-27's case, its pinpoint barrier) in fighter mode in a limited fashion.

Edited by Seto Kaiba

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I'd wager a fair bit of the disparity there is the plot armor that Gamlin and company brought with them when they boarded the VF-17's, since the VF-171 spends most of the series as the exclusive domain of the unnamed grunts who don't enjoy protection-by-plot. Tossing them an upgrade and a named character pilot improves their lot in the series considerably.

Uh... well, I don't believe the VF-171 uses the "Stage II" reaction engines, it's using a normal pair of FF-2110's rated at 45,469kgf to the VF-17's 55,000kgf FF-2100's, though it seems that the disparity is more downtuning than an actual reduction in design limits, since that'd reduce wear on the engine and reduce the maintenance costs needed to keep it in service.

Exactly how the "Stage II" reaction engines used on the YF-24/VF-25/VF-27 differ from the reaction engines used by other planes, I honestly have no idea. Given some of the attributes ascribed to the planes that use them, I can only assume they provide greater thrust and better power generation characteristics, since the above-mentioned VFs all have enormous thrust-to-weight ratios and can even operate their energy converting armor (and in the VF-27's case, its pinpoint barrier) in fighter mode in a limited fashion.

Thanks again for the answers Seto. ^_^

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It probably should be noted that the VF-171 uses parts found in the VF-19 (namely its active stealth system) and the VF-171EX uses the VF-19's FF-2550 engines. So for a cannon fodder machine, the VF-171 is definitely no slouch. If anything, those few scenes in Frontier of the VF-171 would seem to prove that.

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OK, this is probably gonna draw upon Seto again (seems to be the Macross 2 expert).

I recently put together a bandai VF-2SS I had bought. This made me do some reading into it more then the superficial level I previously had.

1) Am I to believe the only armament the VF-2SS has without the SAP installed is two head lasers?

2) Why make the SAP detachable at all if that is the case? At least the VF-11 had a cannon as well as a laser

3) If the medium rail gun is stored in the left SAP arm unit, are the attack bits stored in the right side? If not, what is?

Now that I have handle this a little bit I really hope yamato makes one. I really like the design alot more now that I have built one.

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Thanks again for the answers Seto. ^_^

No problem. :)

It probably should be noted that the VF-171 uses parts found in the VF-19 (namely its active stealth system) and the VF-171EX uses the VF-19's FF-2550 engines. So for a cannon fodder machine, the VF-171 is definitely no slouch. If anything, those few scenes in Frontier of the VF-171 would seem to prove that.

Ah, yes... but still comparatively downtuned from their application in the VF-19 (661.95kN vs 774.24kN), apparently because the VF-171 wasn't designed for the extremes of performance that made the VF-19 and VF-22 such problematic aircraft.

OK, this is probably gonna draw upon Seto again (seems to be the Macross 2 expert).

Yeah, I do seem to pop up when my name is mentioned, like some kind of extremely Macross-themed take on Beetlejuice.

1) Am I to believe the only armament the VF-2SS has without the SAP installed is two head lasers?

Yup, pretty much... but there are indications in B-Club v.79 and elsewhere that the Valkyrie II can carry its medium-scale railgun on occasions when it's not equipping the Super Armed Pack. The thing to remember is that the VF-2SS is a dedicated space valkyrie, and its Super Armed Packs are essentially permanent equipment rather than optional gear for special missions. The VF-2SS isn't going to be sent into combat without it, because it further enhances the already space-optimized Valkyrie II's performance in space, and it packs a lot more firepower into a much smaller package than equipping the plane with a set of conventional and disposable super parts would.

2) Why make the SAP detachable at all if that is the case? At least the VF-11 had a cannon as well as a laser

Short answer... for easy maintenance, since keeping the externally-mounted hardware modular means it's that much easier to get the stuff off of and onto the airframe when you're performing maintenance and repairs. Mind you, there's no indication that the SAP system can be ejected in the field the way conventional super parts are in Macross's main continuity.

The main Macross continuity's VF-11 is a product of a different design philosophy altogether, being that it's an all-regime plane with an apparent focus on atmospheric performance. Its laser is essentially useless unless the enemy is behind it, and it doesn't have any forward-facing beam weapons like its contemporaries do, so its ONLY offensive option is its gun pod in that case, and that can run out of ammo fairly swiftly.

3) If the medium rail gun is stored in the left SAP arm unit, are the attack bits stored in the right side? If not, what is?

DEFINITELY not the auto-attack bits... those are about as big as the Valkyrie II's cockpit block, so there's no way they're going to fit into its right forearm pack. Exactly what's done with the storage compartment in the right forearm pack is unclear. IMO, the pack is probably either left empty to counterbalance the mass of the enormous railgun barrel above it, or stores a second medium railgun, since carrying two gun pods isn't exactly unheard-of in Macross II.

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Short answer... for easy maintenance,

This would be quite true I suppose. Take off the broken SAP, put on a new one while you repair the old. No need to keep a plane out of the fight while doing repairs.

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This would be quite true I suppose. Take off the broken SAP, put on a new one while you repair the old. No need to keep a plane out of the fight while doing repairs.

Exactly, and I don't imagine repairing/maintaining the Super Armed Pack is all that hectic since it's basically just verniers, fuel tanks, weaponry, and a communications pod. It doesn't have any big booster engine systems in it.

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Exactly, and I don't imagine repairing/maintaining the Super Armed Pack is all that hectic since it's basically just verniers, fuel tanks, weaponry, and a communications pod. It doesn't have any big booster engine systems in it.

Don't forget the helmet/blast shield (admittedly low maintenance)...though as to why it needs one in battroid and not fighter mode is anyone's guess.

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Yeah, I do seem to pop up when my name is mentioned, like some kind of extremely Macross-themed take on Beetlejuice.

Well, there is the physical resemblance...:p

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The AAB or "Squires" really should be attached to the SAP pack somehow, though no extensive information is available. So we can only speculate how they would be deployed and initially "assigned" to the various fighters...

However, they are one of my favorite inventions of that series. The idea was probably taken from Gundam and then ultimately incorporated into Macross Frontier, via the RVF-25+Ghost system.

Edited by Zinjo

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Don't forget the helmet/blast shield (admittedly low maintenance)...though as to why it needs one in battroid and not fighter mode is anyone's guess.

IMHO, that's probably just an aesthetic touch included to make the pack more streamlined, and probably doesn't serve any useful purpose beyond looking cool in action.

The AAB or "Squires" really should be attached to the SAP pack somehow, though no extensive information is available. So we can only speculate how they would be deployed and initially "assigned" to the various fighters...

Nah, the Valkyrie II's attack bits are too large to physically attach to the fighter... each one is roughly the size of the fighter's cockpit block, and they're deployed with it in groups of five. In the very first episode of Macross II, we see that the attack bits are launched from the carrier a second or two after the fighter, and just catch up to it and take up station around it in flight. Presumably they get "assigned" to a fighter before launch, and link up with it after launch as shown in the series.

However, they are one of my favorite inventions of that series. The idea was probably taken from Gundam and then ultimately incorporated into Macross Frontier, via the RVF-25+Ghost system.

Almost certainly an idea inspired by Gundam... given that both of Macross II's lead mechanical designers had previously worked on Gundam shows, and certainly took some stylistic pointers from their past experience with Gundam when making Macross II and its prequels. In a couple of places, they even indulged in some fairly blatant references to the original Mobile Suit Gundam series and Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam. Kazumi Fujita had previously worked on Zeta Gundam and Gundam ZZ, and Koichi Ohata worked on the mechanical designs for Char's Counterattack.

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Almost certainly an idea inspired by Gundam... given that both of Macross II's lead mechanical designers had previously worked on Gundam shows, and certainly took some stylistic pointers from their past experience with Gundam when making Macross II and its prequels. In a couple of places, they even indulged in some fairly blatant references to the original Mobile Suit Gundam series and Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam. Kazumi Fujita had previously worked on Zeta Gundam and Gundam ZZ, and Koichi Ohata worked on the mechanical designs for Char's Counterattack.

Ahh, "Char's Counterattack", still my favorite!:D

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What is the name of the song that comes on at 7:32 in Episode 24- Last Frontier? In the Macross Frontier series. I need to have this. Nice song.

P.S

The song comes on after "Aimo, Aimo".

Thanks

Edited by SilentCrossHairs

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What is the name of the song that comes on at 7:32 in Episode 24- Last Frontier? In the Macross Frontier series. I need to have this. Nice song.

P.S

The song comes on after "Aimo, Aimo".

Thanks

It might be this: http://www.anivide.com/lyrics.html?cid=337&view=1621

Here's a list of some of the tracks for MF. http://www.anivide.com/lyrics.html?cat=337

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Hi gang, it's been long time since I've posted here. I have a kind of spotty memory, so I've got some questions about things in Macross Plus I might have forgotten. What exactly did Guld do to Myung before the trio went their separate ways? I remember in the flash back Guld attacks Myung and rips her shirt off, is there any more to that or is that it? I ask because some website said he rapes her, I don't remember them mentioning that, it would cast a very dark shadow on what I thought was a sympathetic character.

Also, I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest but does the story ever answer who was the better pilot? I watched the OVA, I think there was a fight in the city, Isamu was winning until Guld does something off screen which sends Isamu to the hospital (I think). There was also the fight in Macross city, which kind of ended in a draw. Am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading

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Hi gang, it's been long time since I've posted here. I have a kind of spotty memory, so I've got some questions about things in Macross Plus I might have forgotten. What exactly did Guld do to Myung before the trio went their separate ways? I remember in the flash back Guld attacks Myung and rips her shirt off, is there any more to that or is that it? I ask because some website said he rapes her, I don't remember them mentioning that, it would cast a very dark shadow on what I thought was a sympathetic character.

Also, I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest but does the story ever answer who was the better pilot? I watched the OVA, I think there was a fight in the city, Isamu was winning until Guld does something off screen which sends Isamu to the hospital (I think). There was also the fight in Macross city, which kind of ended in a draw. Am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=33975&st=0&p=875973&hl=+macross%20+plus%20+ending&fromsearch=1entry875973 :wacko:

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Hi gang, it's been long time since I've posted here. I have a kind of spotty memory, so I've got some questions about things in Macross Plus I might have forgotten. What exactly did Guld do to Myung before the trio went their separate ways? I remember in the flash back Guld attacks Myung and rips her shirt off, is there any more to that or is that it? I ask because some website said he rapes her, I don't remember them mentioning that, it would cast a very dark shadow on what I thought was a sympathetic character.

Also, I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest but does the story ever answer who was the better pilot? I watched the OVA, I think there was a fight in the city, Isamu was winning until Guld does something off screen which sends Isamu to the hospital (I think). There was also the fight in Macross city, which kind of ended in a draw. Am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading

I always felt he didn't rape her at all. It looks like he went into a jealous rage from seeing Myung preferring Isamu over him, and then made it out that it was all Isamu's fault.

Edited by SkullLeaderVF-X

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What is up with Michaels ears? Is he part Zentradi or something? If so it must be a small part because I don't notice any other Zentradi traits.

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It hasn't officially been confirmed, so you'll just have to assume so. At least, he would have a bit of Zentraedi lineage in his blood... There are some theories floating around that he may be Zolan, but they're based on shaky evidence.

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What is up with Michaels ears? Is he part Zentradi or something? If so it must be a small part because I don't notice any other Zentradi traits.

Macross Chronicle says he's part-Zentradi with some Zolan ancestry as well.

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Macross Chronicle says he's part-Zentradi with some Zolan ancestry as well.

So he's a Zoltradi then?

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Seto, I didn't see that information anywhere in Sketchley's translations. Can you link your citation?

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Seto, I didn't see that information anywhere in Sketchley's translations. Can you link your citation?

I haven't translated anywhere near a 5th of that publication - and with that, I've focused on Mechanical and Technical. So, I haven't spotted it meself, but there's a decent chance it's in the character section on the character.

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Seto, I didn't see that information anywhere in Sketchley's translations. Can you link your citation?

I believe it's on his character sheet... to be honest, I haven't translated the blasted thing myself since I too have been focusing on the mechanical and technology sheets rather than character sheets, but when I fielded this exact same question a couple pages ago with the information from 2059:Memories, Gubaba helpfully chimed in with that tidbit.

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It was never released on DVD, not even the bootleg DVD's have the English dub.

But it was officially released here in the USA on VHS. The Japanese subtitles were even removed, so it's a clean video.

i've a copy of that very same late 1990's "BEST HOME VIDEO" edition.

the AUDIO and VIDEO quality is every bit as awful as the TOHO-sourced english dub, what with the cassette recorded

with the VHS slave recorder set in some sort of terrible SLP mode, cramming a two-hour movie on a cheap 45-minute in SP mode cassette blank;

MACROSSDYRLSUPERSPACEDUB4-6-11.jpg

i've also a superb S-VHS dub of of one of the finest HK BOOT sub DVDs, made with a high-end DVD player and S-VHS VCR;

MACROSSDYRLSUBTITLED4-6-11.jpg

Edited by azrael

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