Bandai DX Chogokin YF-29 Durandal Valkyrie

[Reïvaj]

I'm a little worried about those large gaps around the knees in the CAD fighter mode side view.

Graham

It looks like the leg is bent twice one click down at the thigh and one click up at the knee to give room for that kind of super pack and the guns on the back of the legs in the usual Macross fashion.

If it is actually possible to take these super parts off, the resultant toy will be even more similar to the VF-25.

[eugimon]

It looks like the leg is bent twice one click down at the thigh and one click up at the knee to give room for that kind of super pack and the guns on the back of the legs in the usual Macross fashion.

If it is actually possible to take these super parts off, the resultant toy will be even more similar to the VF-25.

no, I think the legs are straight across, the gaps are just to show the various breaks along the thighs, knee guards, lower legs.

If you look at the DX 25, the legs naturally sit below the back of the fighter and the new gun nacelles occupy the space where the legs should have been if the DX had been designed correctly.

The gun nacelles are attached to a boom along the spine of the fighter that should allow it to swing up and rest along the back of the battroid in a configuration similar to the backpack of the VF-1... but with guns.

Edited January 8, 2011 by eugimon

[David Hingtgen]

Boy, I'm almost wondering if Bandai took the DX VF-25, "filled in all the gaps and mistakes", then asked Kawamori if he'd approve it as a new design...

[ae_productions]

Boy, I'm almost wondering if Bandai took the DX VF-25, "filled in all the gaps and mistakes", then asked Kawamori if he'd approve it as a new design...

Makes you wonder!

[Vifam7]

Boy, I'm almost wondering if Bandai took the DX VF-25, "filled in all the gaps and mistakes", then asked Kawamori if he'd approve it as a new design...

But then it wouldn't explain the 1/100 model kit which was reported before the DX toy. Or why they're ignoring the superb 1/72 model kit.

[David Hingtgen]

I see the 1/100 kit as an "idealized/sleekened for fighter mode" version, much like the Hasegawa YF-19. There wasn't much time between announcements, the DX could actually have been designed first. Making a non-transforming small vehicle kit sample is practically a weekend project for a company like Bandai.

[Graham]

(Also posted in the YF-29 model kit thread)

I just noticed that early pics of the unpainted model sculpt show the YF-29 with outward-canted ventral leg fins (see attached pic).

However the newer CAD pics of the DX toy (and also the recent painted model kit pics), do not show these ventral leg fins.

So I wonder if these leg fins were a mistake by the kit sculptors and were later removed? Or perhaps the YF-29 only uses them in an atmosphere and during space combat they are kept retracted into the leg?

Another thing just occured to me. Perhaps the micro-missile launchers on the lower-leg are removeable FAST Packs and the leg fins only extend out when the packs are not fitted.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

Retracting the ventral fins in space seems pointless---it should fold in the tailfins and canards too then.

Note: folding ventral fins aren't that uncommon in the real world. But same as the Sv-51, they're only moved to provide ground clearance when landing.

[platypus]

(Also posted in the YF-29 model kit thread)

I just noticed that early pics of the unpainted model sculpt show the YF-29 with outward-canted ventral leg fins (see attached pic).

However the newer CAD pics of the DX toy (and also the recent painted model kit pics), do not show these ventral leg fins.

So I wonder if these leg fins were a mistake by the kit sculptors and were later removed? Or perhaps the YF-29 only uses them in an atmosphere and during space combat they are kept retracted into the leg?

Another thing just occured to me. Perhaps the micro-missile launchers on the lower-leg are removeable FAST Packs and the leg fins only extend out when the packs are not fitted.

Graham

The Vf-27 also doesn't have leg fins. I suppose the the 29 was not meant to have leg fins to, seeing it is a 25 and 27 hybrid...

[Chronocidal]

It looks like the leg is bent twice one click down at the thigh and one click up at the knee to give room for that kind of super pack and the guns on the back of the legs in the usual Macross fashion.

If it is actually possible to take these super parts off, the resultant toy will be even more similar to the VF-25.

See, this is what makes me suspicious about this design. Those legs do not match the YF-29 pictures seen so far. I mean, look at them, they ARE VF-25 legs. They're the only part of the plane detailed with markings (the red and black ankle stripes, black panels on the lower leg around the gear door, the shaded portion of the kneecap), and all the markings are identical to what the VF-25F has, but not anything matching the colors we've seen on the YF-29 pics. I think the colored physical YF-29 we've seen had the entire lower leg painted reddish.

What makes me really interested is that these are NEW VF-25 legs, with several features the DX did not have, like intake compressor blades, actual exhaust ports in the feet, and a redesigned mechanism to let the legs drop correctly for fast packs to mount. It makes me think they're using this new YF-29 design as a springboard to launch a new VF-25 design, since the designs are similar enough to share major components.

I mean.. even if the YF-29 DOES use legs identical to the VF-25, that doesn't explain the legs being in markings for Alto's VF-25F (unless the CAD artists just got bored and were experimenting with color schemes >_>).

[eugimon]

The legs in that CAD shot have not been put into any configuration other than the standard dx vf-25 position. The DX 25 always had the legs slung under the body.

Maybe it can, but there's nothing there or in the yf-29 design which shows the need for such a change. If anything, the yf-29 design looks to compensate for the fact that the DX toys have the legs in the wrong position by putting that gun nacelle on top of it.

[Reïvaj]

I don’t think so. The DX 25 always had the legs slung under the body mainly because the thighs are so fat there’s not room left for the shoulders mechanisms. Bandai did acknowledge this and changed the thighs of the VF-27, making them thinner. You can probably compare them.

I think that what we can see here is a toy that uses slightly redesigned DX 25 legs that bend twice -one click down at the thighs and one click up at the knees- to get room for fast packs on the sides and gun nacelles sitting on top of them. I also think that’s why we see those large gaps around the knees in the CAD fighter mode side view.

Anyway, there’s nothing sure about this CAD art being the final design. It could happen that it’s an early stage of it and the designers used the DX 25 legs CAD block for rapidness and that’s why we haven’t seen any battroid image yet.

On the other side, as in a comparison with the 1/100 kit the designs don’t look the same, it could happen that Bandai had decided to give us some crap again with their DX line and just release a DX 25 with different colour, head, arms (that include a gun near the hands), wings-tail fins block, a back plate including articulated gun nacelles and fast packs masking all the inconsistencies away…

Who knows?

[Chronocidal]

Anyway, there's nothing sure about this CAD art being the final design. It could happen that it's an early stage of it and the designers used the DX 25 legs CAD block for rapidness and that's why we haven't seen any battroid image yet.

I guess I should clarify... Those are not the existing DX VF-25's legs, they are updated. Yes, using the old legs on the new design would save time, but they didn't do that. These legs are clearly VF-25 legs, but they have several improvements over the old DX version.

So my question is, why are they using the wrong legs for the YF-29 on these images? Clearly, they've put the time in to design a set of more accurate VF-25 legs. Why they have slapped them on the YF-29 I don't know, and it doesn't really matter...

But the fact that these CAD legs exist would point to the idea that Bandai is already working on a V.2 VF-25, in which case, I am cautiously excited. They clearly have added open intakes and foot exhausts, and after the VF-27, they would have to be absolutely daft to not include a thigh swivel this time.

Nutcase theory? Maybe, but I'm still hopeful to get a VF-25 that holds up against the model kits, and can attach booster and armor sets as solidly as my Yamatos can.

[eugimon]

I don’t think so. The DX 25 always had the legs slung under the body mainly because the thighs are so fat there’s not room left for the shoulders mechanisms. Bandai did acknowledge this and changed the thighs of the VF-27, making them thinner. You can probably compare them.

I think that what we can see here is a toy that uses slightly redesigned DX 25 legs that bend twice -one click down at the thighs and one click up at the knees- to get room for fast packs on the sides and gun nacelles sitting on top of them. I also think that’s why we see those large gaps around the knees in the CAD fighter mode side view.

Anyway, there’s nothing sure about this CAD art being the final design. It could happen that it’s an early stage of it and the designers used the DX 25 legs CAD block for rapidness and that’s why we haven’t seen any battroid image yet.

On the other side, as in a comparison with the 1/100 kit the designs don’t look the same, it could happen that Bandai had decided to give us some crap again with their DX line and just release a DX 25 with different colour, head, arms (that include a gun near the hands), wings-tail fins block, a back plate including articulated gun nacelles and fast packs masking all the inconsistencies away…

Who knows?

they don't look like they're clicking down at all. If they clicked down then the thigh should be angled down, but it's not, it's straight across and where the feet are in relation to the body of the plane is exactly where they are on the 25.

It doesn't even make sense that the legs would have to angled, for what purpose? It's clear than the gun nacelles on top of the legs are part of the design and not a FAST pack or extra weapon system.

And if it is the 25 legs, that's a complete redesign in the way the joints work. If you look at the way the 25/27 intake/thigh hinge works, clicking it down one actually causes the thigh to overlap the intake assembly. If you're right and the legs in that CAD are clicked down one, then the whole leg has been redesigned.

[Reïvaj]

they don't look like they're clicking down at all. If they clicked down then the thigh should be angled down, but it's not, it's straight across and where the feet are in relation to the body of the plane is exactly where they are on the 25.

It doesn't even make sense that the legs would have to angled, for what purpose? It's clear than the gun nacelles on top of the legs are part of the design and not a FAST pack or extra weapon system.

And if it is the 25 legs, that's a complete redesign in the way the joints work. If you look at the way the 25/27 intake/thigh hinge works, clicking it down one actually causes the thigh to overlap the intake assembly. If you're right and the legs in that CAD are clicked down one, then the whole leg has been redesigned.

Listen, I base my opinions on mere observation and guessing. I’m only saying that to me theYF-29 legs are similar to the VF-25 legs, also that I obtained large gaps around the knees similar to those that Graham pointed out in the CAD art by simply bending it one click down at the thighs (not at the intake hinge) and one click UP at the knees, thus keeping the general direction of the legs as you can see in the following picture.

I’m not saying that the gun nacelles are not part of the design (see http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=34295&view=findpost&p=890030), I just think like Chronocidal that Bandai could probably use the same legs for both the YF-29 and a V.2 VF-25, but in the case of the YF-29 the legs should stay lower to leave room to the leg nacelles to rest on top of them.

No need to be uncompromising, it’s just an opinion.

[Graham]

Hmmm........very interesting observations Reïvaj.

I really hope Bandai is not simply going to reuse the legs from the V.1 VF-25 on the YF-29 toy.

Need to go back and study all the available YF-29 model kit pics, to see if the kit has the same ankle collars as the VF-25 or not.

Graham

[eugimon]

Listen, I base my opinions on mere observation and guessing. I’m only saying that to me theYF-29 legs are similar to the VF-25 legs, also that I obtained large gaps around the knees similar to those that Graham pointed out in the CAD art by simply bending it one click down at the thighs (not at the intake hinge) and one click UP at the knees, thus keeping the general direction of the legs as you can see in the following picture.

I’m not saying that the gun nacelles are not part of the design (see http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=34295&view=findpost&p=890030), I just think like Chronocidal that Bandai could probably use the same legs for both the YF-29 and a V.2 VF-25, but in the case of the YF-29 the legs should stay lower to leave room to the leg nacelles to rest on top of them.

No need to be uncompromising, it’s just an opinion.

I get what you're trying to say. I'm only pointing out that to support the idea that the legs are bent you have to ignore a lot of stuff like the thigh not being angled down and that the DX 25 already has the leg in the proper position to fit the nacelles on top, without having to bend the legs. It's just simpler.

There's also no given that knee guards are even going to be the same. From the CAD/25 comparison you've posted it seems clear that the knee guard is different and much smaller on the 29 compared to the 25.

The shot of the 29 in the lower right corner is pretty suggestive that legs are going to be straight across, without the bend in fighter mode.

[anime52k8]

I really hope Bandai is not simply going to reuse the legs from the V.1 VF-25 on the YF-29 toy.

That's totally what they're doing, it's just the existing leg with a bunch of panels slapped on it to hide how poorly the leg lined up with the rest of the plane in the first place.

[Reïvaj]

I get what you're trying to say. I'm only pointing out that to support the idea that the legs are bent you have to ignore a lot of stuff like the thigh not being angled down and that the DX 25 already has the leg in the proper position to fit the nacelles on top, without having to bend the legs. It's just simpler.

There's also no given that knee guards are even going to be the same. From the CAD/25 comparison you've posted it seems clear that the knee guard is different and much smaller on the 29 compared to the 25.

The shot of the 29 in the lower right corner is pretty suggestive that legs are going to be straight across, without the bend in fighter mode.

Actually, I hope I’m not right and Bandai doesn’t do what some people are afraid of using some slightly improved VF-25’s legs for its DX line of the YF-29. The problem is that as I’ve mentioned before the shot of the 1/100 kit you’ve posted shows something fairly different legs from the CAD art Graham posted here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=34295&view=findpost&p=889968. The DX toy seems to have some kind of thigh guard than the 1/100 hasn’t. The question is which version is the right one.

And then again, the theory of the bent legs is just a guess to explain the horrible gaps we can see in the fighter mode side view as I don’t expect the YF-29 will share the same sculpting flaws of the VF-25 and the legs won’t naturally slung under the body.

[Chronocidal]

Well, that's exactly my point, it's NOT the existing leg. There are intake fans added, there are blocky exhausts visible in the foot, and on top of that, I didn't think the kneecap on the DX could even bend that direction, though I might be remembering the model.

And that leg is definitely dropped at the thigh, it's just that the leg pieces are a MUCH better shape on this leg. They're closer to the model instead of the DX, and the double hinge in the thigh extension allows you to pull the thigh out away from the hip quite a bit. If anyone has pics handy, I'd love to see that side profile compared with the leg assembly of the 1/72 model kit. Really, I think the DX scarred all of our memories of the way the VF-25 is supposed to look.. the legs are supposed to be MUCH higher in fighter mode...

Hold on, this might help

The fins cover up how high the legs reeally are, but they're up there. I mean, just in general, the split between the heel and toe should be almost level with the wing, so those legs are definitely drooped.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Chronocidal

[eugimon]

Actually, I hope I’m not right and Bandai doesn’t do what some people are afraid of using some slightly improved VF-25’s legs for its DX line of the YF-29. The problem is that as I’ve mentioned before the shot of the 1/100 kit you’ve posted shows something fairly different legs from the CAD art Graham posted here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=34295&view=findpost&p=889968. The DX toy seems to have some kind of thigh guard than the 1/100 hasn’t. The question is which version is the right one.

And then again, the theory of the bent legs is just a guess to explain the horrible gaps we can see in the fighter mode side view as I don’t expect the YF-29 will share the same sculpting flaws of the VF-25 and the legs won’t naturally slung under the body.

if it's anything like the past, then the 1/100 model is going to be a lot closer to the line art than the DX. But I think in this case, the vf-25 legs in the CAD are just a place holder. At least, I hope they're just place holders.

[Reïvaj]

Mmmmm, so do I...!

[eugimon]

Mmmmm, so do I...!

I will say this though... if you're right, and they do just stick on the 25 legs and have to work in some leg bend thing to get it to work, I'll be passing on this. I'm pretty "meh" on the design to begin with and I've been fiddling with my dx 25 to look at the leg geometry while we've been talking about this and it just made me remember how very much I hate the DX 25.

And oh look, the front landing bay door hinges broke while they've been sitting there all boxed up, not doing anything for the past 6 months. POS.

[Graham]

Definitely need to do some serious magazine picture studying when I get home tonight, as some of the pics posted in the various YF-29 threads are too small for serious examination.

So far it seems like we have 4 different versions of the YF-29, each telling us something slightly different:

1. The DX CAD pics (in multiple angles).
   
2. The early unpainted model kit scuplt (in multiple angles).
   
3. The more recent painted model sculpt (in multiple angles).
   
4. Kawamori's line-art (in one angle only).
   

Each set of pics seems to be telling us something slightly different regarding the legs. The early unpainted kit sculpt for example had the ventral leg fins, but seemed to lack the micro-missile packs. I'm especially interesting to see if any pics besides the DX CAD pics show the VF-25 type ankle collars.

Graham

[Reïvaj]

I will say this though... if you're right, and they do just stick on the 25 legs and have to work in some leg bend thing to get it to work, I'll be passing on this. I'm pretty "meh" on the design to begin with and I've been fiddling with my dx 25 to look at the leg geometry while we've been talking about this and it just made me remember how very much I hate the DX 25.

And oh look, the front landing bay door hinges broke while they've been sitting there all boxed up, not doing anything for the past 6 months. POS.

Yeah, I know wat you mean, I'm not very in love with this design either... I'll keep saving for all the Yamatos to come

I'm sorry to hear about your DX 25!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I HOPE the legs from the DX VF-25 are not re-used, the hips got loose on mine and the lack of thigh swivels was disappointing.

[Cent]

Is anyone else not bothered by how the thrust vectoring nozzles are blocked from angling upwards by the rear wing roots? Is that just the consequence of kit-bashing older designs?

[charger69]

New DX YF-29 Image

Edited January 21, 2011 by charger69

[Hiryu]

what the heck is it called? YF-29 Dulander???

edit: or maybe it's Durendal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durendal

Edited January 21, 2011 by Hiryu

[anime52k8]

what the heck is it called? YF-29 Dulander???

edit: or maybe it's Durendal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durendal

I think Durendal sounds about right, given that they've been on a mystical sword kick as of late with macross R.

BTW, is the DX render supposed to represent the plastic coloring or something? It's got the little black stripe on the side, but everything else is either wrong or missing.

It still looks like shit either way. Side view is just awful; canopy is crap, nose shape is wrong, underside is gappy as hell and the tail fins are awful. And what's with the bulging clear bits on the top of the jet, is it going to have MAXL titties or something? I actually like the mid wing engines but they should have been rotated 90 degrees so that the intake was on the underside.

So yeah, f*ck you bandai.

[chen]

I like it for what it is, a make believe sci-fi airplane that transforms. Analyzing it as anything more then that is like falling in love with a big breasted Anime character, kind of waste of time

[anime52k8]

I like it for what it is, a make believe sci-fi airplane that transforms. Analyzing it as anything more then that is like falling in love with a big breasted Anime character, kind of waste of time

But big breasted anime characters are aesthetically pleasing. This isn't.

[Reïvaj]

While the more detailed design makes the plane look better I still don’t feel much love for the overall design than I did before.

About the colours in the new render, I think they represent the ones of the actual plastic pieces. Some paint should be applied on some of them. I welcome the perceptible existence of certain amount of grey in the legs, but in general the colour scheme is still too pinkish to my taste.

I can’t stand the fact that the mid wing engines take so much lifting area from the already tiny wings that the only possible way for this valk to fly in an atmosphere would be either at high speed or in gerwalk mode. The VF-27 has much more wing area and the option of folding the tips down for high speed flight.

I guess the clear bits on the chest plate are a silly way to expose the Fold Quartz and show off the new technology. Don’t worry if you don’t like them, from what I can see in the front view of the bigger image Graham posted some days ago, it looks like they will be completely disintegrated by the guns in the leg nacelles.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Reïvaj

[Horatio Positronic]

what the heck is it called? YF-29 Dulander???

edit: or maybe it's Durendal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durendal

Or maybe Durandal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-107_Durandal

[anime52k8]

Or maybe Durandal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-107_Durandal

Durandal is just a variant spelling of Durendal. And they probebly named the Jet after the sword either way, rather than after a french anti-runway bomb that itself was named after the sword.