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So is this all canon?

Dunno... it's supposed to be a serialized novel, so I would expect it to be no more canon than any of the other Macross novelizations, which generally aren't.

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2nded, but it fits with the general direction the Macross Universe has taken post VF-X2. I'm also glad that there is an actual, RL, established term for the concept.

Anyhow, I forget which magazine (probably Great Mechanics.DX), but there is a little bit of info on the back-story of the development of the YF-24/YF-24 Evolution/VF-25/(Y)VF-27. In short, the Unified Forces of Earth are keeping the best technologies for themselves, and sending monkey models out to the emigrant planets and fleets. With regards to ISC technology, the development of the EX-Gear and cyborg pilots are two examples of how emigrant fleets have compensated for the dissemination of ISC monkey model technology.

Interesting, I wonder what is the reason for keeping the the best technologies on Earth. Is it fear of rebellion by the coloney fleets/planets? Or possibly not wanting the best technology to fall into enemy hands/give a new enemy a true idea of Earth's real defence capabilities, should an all new enemy be encountered by the fleets.

Graham

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Dunno... it's supposed to be a serialized novel, so I would expect it to be no more canon than any of the other Macross novelizations, which generally aren't.

Yeah, it's always hard to tell with side-stories.

Sometimes they can fill back story, sometimes they're just left out. For example, Gundam has a plethora of side stories which filled in some things that the animated series don't. Sometimes they fill in more than they should. Sometimes they leave the viewer with more questions than answers. So we simply don't know have any good answer when dealing with side stories.

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fixed

Interesting, I wonder what is the reason for keeping the the best technologies on Earth. Is it fear of rebellion by the emigrant fleets/planets? Or possibly not wanting the best technology to fall into enemy hands/give a new enemy a true idea of Earth's real defence capabilities, should an all new enemy be encountered by the fleets.

Graham

From what I've read/translated, it's the former (given the number of rebellions to date). Though, logically, it might also be some of the latter.

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I know this is just a novel but it seems a lot of people are involved in the production. This can't be some side-story. I have a strong feeling this could up being another Gundam Unicorn.

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Interesting, I wonder what is the reason for keeping the the best technologies on Earth. Is it fear of rebellion by the coloney fleets/planets? Or possibly not wanting the best technology to fall into enemy hands/give a new enemy a true idea of Earth's real defence capabilities, should an all new enemy be encountered by the fleets.

An interesting question to be sure... but unfortunately one I don't think we have an answer for, unless they're going to provide one later in Macross the Ride. Personally, I'm inclined to suspect that this whole "Earth forces keeping all the best tech for themselves" thing is a fairly recent development in the Macross universe. The first we hear of this is in the VF-25's generation, which emerged after the decentralization of the UN Gov't gave the colonies autonomy and the marked upswing in anti-government terrorist activity between 2048 and 2051. The only unit developed prior to that that we could honestly label a "monkey model" is the VF-19P... at least on the basis of its downtuned engines, changes in armament, etc.. (though Master File has more to say on that note, indicating that there were also functional restrictions were imposed on the avionics, and the target acquisition rate for the micro-missile launchers was slowed)

Vindirance's 2051 coup attempt was probably a pretty big factor in the governmental reorganization even tho Kawamori says it wasn't the actual cause, so I'd be inclined to suspect the reason the Earth forces started to keep the best technology for themselves was because they got sick of seeing their own hardware being used against them by anti-government terrorist organizations. Switching to a policy of giving the now-independent colony fleets less capable export models would be the best way to ensure they had a leg-up if it were ever to happen again. Even though there's bound to be some customization and variation in the locally-produced VFs prior to that decision, we've never seen any prior indication that the main variable fighters used by the colony fleets were less capable than their Earth forces counterparts (e.g. VF-11B and -C).

Yeah, it's always hard to tell with side-stories.

Sometimes they can fill back story, sometimes they're just left out. For example, Gundam has a plethora of side stories which filled in some things that the animated series don't. Sometimes they fill in more than they should. Sometimes they leave the viewer with more questions than answers. So we simply don't know have any good answer when dealing with side stories.

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out... most of the novels are retellings of events from the animation, but this one might be more along the lines of Macross 7 Trash if it doesn't conflict with the established (and minimal) backstory of the Macross Frontier series.

I know this is just a novel but it seems a lot of people are involved in the production. This can't be some side-story. I have a strong feeling this could up being another Gundam Unicorn.

I wouldn't mind seeing this animated if it really does take off... though I'm still hoping against hope for them to animate Macross the First.

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So why is it, in the Macross universe, anytime a group is "anti-government" they are automatically "TERRORISTS"??!!:blink:

I really don't think many fully understand the term...

The Anti-UN were called "terrorists" yet they not only had a military but a political agenda. By nature, terrorists are cowards. Most of the antagonsts in the Macross universe, be they the Anti-UN, the Vinderance, et al, should be considered rebels or insurgents IMO. The bad guys we've seen thus far aren't afraid of a stand up fight and aren't prone to blow up targets and scurry off like rats...

I am just getting so sick of the abuse of the term by everyone! "pant"-"pant"-"pant" - rant is over, go back to your drinks...:unsure:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I am of the opinion that Graham is probably pretty close to being right. With emigration fleets taking on autonomous nationhood as they leave the solar system, they become an ally rather than a colony under direct UNG protection or control. Clearly a few, like Galaxy have not demonstrated themselves as reliable or forthright allies.

Thus in the interest of protecting itself, the Earth and probably its most trusted allies are allowed the full benefit of modern OTEC gear whereas the colony fleets, being entitled to the information by virtue of the alliance, are not aprised of all the tech available.

The de-centralization of the UNG has left a lot of old politicians and military commanders, who once enjoyed enormous power, weaker and probably fairly paranoid. The old days of the UNS patrols peppering the known galaxy are rapidly being replaced by privately contracted companies like SMS who have the cash to purchase the most advanced equipment from anywhere. They probably have to, since the most advanced Spacy gear is not available to them or their clients.

This policy won't, however, protect the Earth and her closest allies from the independent advances made on the Frontier, Galaxy and other emigration fleets. It is a two edged sword.

The policy is very similar to how the US and Russia conducted themselves during the cold war and to a certain extent today. Only the most trusted allies were allowed to buy complete modern aircraft from the US or the USSR. All the rest would be able to buy the equipment, but certain "components" would be left out of the deal. Pakistan's F-16 deal with the US was a prime example. The Isreali's got the complete F-16, whereas a less trusted ally like Pakistan didn't get the same radar package. Today, many countries are buying the F-35 Lightning II, but the F-22 Raptor is not open to foreign sales...

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Dammit if only I could read Japanese. It sound like a very interesting story.

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So why is it, in the Macross universe, anytime a group is "anti-government" they are automatically "TERRORISTS"??!!:blink:

I really don't think many fully understand the term...

To be frank, I think it's a question of the connotations attached to terms like "rebel" and "terrorist". The handful of anti-government organizations that figure prominently in Macross stories are almost invariably the "bad guys". I suppose that, in practice, the distinction between a "rebel" and a "terrorist" ultimately comes down to whose side you're on. The use of "rebel" can carry the connotation of someone fighting the good and noble fight against an unjust or oppressive government. By the opposite token, use of a term like "terrorist" or "insurgent" usually carries the negative connotation of having used cowardly and morally reprehensible tactics to oppose the legitimate government.

In the end, the reason the various anti-government factions in Macross are called "terrorists" is because the story is invariably told from the UN's side... though the groups in question always do something that ensures they richly deserve that particular label.

Edited by Seto Kaiba

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terrorist = freedom fighter

It all depends on what side of the political fence one sits. Probably the best example would be Nelson Mandela: when he was sentenced to life imprisonment, he was labelled a terrorist. When he was freed and made president, he was labelled a freedom fighter. All for the same actions.

So, yeah, what SK said: as long as the story is told from the main authorities POV, opposing groups will tend to be labelled "rebels" and "terrorists".

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Dammit if only I could read Japanese. It sound like a very interesting story.

Just as long as you realize that NONE of this talk about the New UN Forces and anti-government movements that's been going on has ANYTHING to do with the story.

Macross the Ride is about a couple of people who race Valkyries. I doubt it'll get much wider in scope or import than that.

I definitely don't have time to translate the thing, but I'll see if I can skim it and come with a short summary every month or something. Maybe.

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Macross the Ride is about a couple of people who race Valkyries. I doubt it'll get much wider in scope or import than that.

What he said. Not sure if it's been mentioned in MW already or not, but the male lead character races the VF-1. Which says quite a lot about him/the novelization, IMHO.

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Macross the Ride is about a couple of people who race Valkyries. I doubt it'll get much wider in scope or import than that.

Don't you know? Reading is a lost art at MW. :D

But yeah, this is about a race like touring car racing. Except the cars are Valks. Not sure how terrorism got into this.

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My guess is that this story is going to have a little touch of Hikaru in it, since Hikaru was an acrobatic pilot before he joined the service.

I had considered writing a side story where old valkyrie models were being used to fight hand-to-hand as a spectator sport, but then I realized that it might turn out to be too much like G-Gundam, lol.

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Macross the Ride is about a couple of people who race Valkyries.

Not sure if it's been mentioned in MW already or not, but the male lead character races the VF-1.

I don't know, but when a read these phrases, this image comes to my mind...

post-8744-129141158412_thumb.jpg

...from Macross F: Sayonara no Tsubasa PV

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Anyone else think the nose is VF-0esque?

Yeah, you got right there, pretty much a VF-0 nose cone.

Yeah, it does... and I think I might know why. Earlier tonight, I was having a chat with Talos about the VF-171 and how it looks like it should be more than just .02m longer than the VF-17, and while I was checking a couple different publications to confirm the size given in Macross Chronicle I noticed something unexpected. In the "VF Evolutionary Theory" article in Great Mechanics.DX 9, the commentary in the VF-25 section (pp16-17) mentions that equipping the VF-19 with an inertia store converter was expected to be economical during development of the YF-24.

IIRC, the VF-25 and VF-27 keep their inertia store converters in the aircraft's nose... and since the VF-19EF is already equipped with prototype EX-Gear it doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility that it might also be equipped with a developmental version of the VF-25's inertia store converter, necessitating the remodeling of the aircraft's nose.

But yeah, this is about a race like touring car racing. Except the cars are Valks. Not sure how terrorism got into this.

Easily explained... it started with "Why a monkey model", and then a possible explanation emerged that the Earth forces keep all the best toys for themselves. Terrorism entered the picture as the obvious reason they started keeping all the best technology out of the hands of the colonists.

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What he said. Not sure if it's been mentioned in MW already or not, but the male lead character races the VF-1. Which says quite a lot about him/the novelization, IMHO.

I'm sincerely hoping that Valk racing (....yawn), won't be the sum total of the novelization.

As Kawamori has bothered to design and introduce some new military VFs (VF-19EF & VF-19EFs), I'm hoping there will be some combat featured, with appropriate photo art, CG art or lineart, of said combat, published in the magazine.

Possibly the combat could be against terrorists/freedom figters/rebels/insurgents (choose you preferred name of the day :) ), or a rogue Zentran/Meltran fleet.

Graham

Yeah, it does... and I think I might know why. Earlier tonight, I was having a chat with Talos about the VF-171 and how it looks like it should be more than just .02m longer than the VF-17,

Oh., I would say it should be significantly longer than that.

Graham

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Yeah, it does... and I think I might know why. Earlier tonight, I was having a chat with Talos about the VF-171 and how it looks like it should be more than just .02m longer than the VF-17.

More like "I was having a chat with Talos about the VF-171 and how the entire plane was scaled down because Kawamori is the Hory Froating Head and it must be 2cm longer." :p Took you a bit to come around to my "mistake or typo" camp.

Oh., I would say it should be significantly longer than that.

Graham

I'm working on a VF-171 side view after getting the 1/250 for the 171 and EX yesterday, which led to the discussion after I was researching the two planes. As the TIA:M+ side view has slightly long feet/nozzles, if I keep those, I can probably wedge in the VF-171 nose in about a meter longer length (I would be shortening the VF-171's feet to anime length if I did that). Otherwise, it will probably be a bit longer then that.

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I'm sincerely hoping that Valk racing (....yawn), won't be the sum total of the novelization.

Likewise... and I doubt that racing will be all they do, since there's already been mention of a New UN Spacy special forces unit that uses the VF-19EF Caliburn. At this point, I think it's a foregone conclusion that they'll have some kind of combat in the story. I can't imagine it would go over well with the populace at large that they'd founded an expensive special forces unit with brand new VFs just to race the guys from SMS for kicks. This is just me guessing wildly, but I can't shake the feeling this whole racing thing with EX-Gear and possibly ISC-equipped VF-19s is a way of evaluating both technologies under operational conditions to further the development of the VF-25.

More like "I was having a chat with Talos about the VF-171 and how the entire plane was scaled down because Kawamori is the Hory Froating Head and it must be 2cm longer." :p Took you a bit to come around to my "mistake or typo" camp.

Bah... not likely. You made a fuss even though I pointed out that there was no evidence of inconsistency, so I humored you and checked every source I could lay hands on to see if another number was offered... and found no evidence to support the "mistake or typo" theory. I do agree the size given is odd... but that's more a topic for another thread. Speaking of, I gotta go revive the Chronicle Translations thread for an interesting VF-22-related revelation.

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It's been mentioned and I'd like to remind us, but the summary does mention that NUNS and PMCs (in this case, SMS) are using the race to secretly test their VFs which is why something like the VF-19EF shows up in this race along with other various VFs. And one of the Dengeki Hobby scenes is a squad of VF-19EF engaging a Zentradi power armor. So I don't think this novel will be short on things blowing up....and I'm not talking about the male protagonist's VF which, as his bio notes, seems to malfunction just as he is about to win final round races.

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I'm sincerely hoping that Valk racing (....yawn), won't be the sum total of the novelization.

Graham

Agree, if you want a VF racer just remove the transformation mechanisms and weapons.

Less weight goes faster on the same engine but not a very interesting story plot.

Just hope that Hasegawa or Bandai give us some models from this series since I really like the new 19.

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Agree, if you want a VF racer just remove the transformation mechanisms and weapons.

Less weight goes faster on the same engine but not a very interesting story plot.

Just hope that Hasegawa or Bandai give us some models from this series since I really like the new 19.

Erm, then what's the point of racing a VF? Let me remind you of the GERWALK mode slalom racing illo I already mentioned.

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Yeah, and if someone had wrote that there was a proposed Macross series where the main character doesn't fight and flies with a guitar, first impression would be ????. That is why first impressions are a bit off base. I love the new 19 but the last time I liked a mech without know the story it became a serious flop.... Engage Planet Kissdum.

Hope that Ride is so good that we get models and an OVA out of it...or at least some new valks to unlock in the PS3 or PSP games that are due out.

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So I guess the designation of VF-19E is now this, instead the Kai variant that it was used for in the VF-19 Master file book. Don't really care for this one either. :(

Chris

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:huh:?

VF-19E

VF-19E Kai "Basara Nekki Custom" Fire Valkyrie

VF-19EF

VF-19EFs

All exist. Not sure how you're interpreting "derivative of" as meaning "replacement of".

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Getting to like the look of the VF-19EF more each time I see it.

Graham

Same here, though to me it looks more like a trimmed down air/space brawler/intercepter.

Less graceful than its predecesors but it has that still the talons to kick ass in a fight.

Kinda like an Eagle to a Hunting Falcon.

Or in a twisted sort like the F-18A/B to the F-18E/F its purpose was changed but it still holds the essence.

Dare I say it but I hope they make a toy of it.

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So I guess the designation of VF-19E is now this, instead the Kai variant that it was used for in the VF-19 Master file book. Don't really care for this one either. :(

Uh, no... to expand on what sketchley has already said, the VF-19EF Caliburn and its "leader" variant are not a replacement for a preexisting design. The Dengeki website for Macross the Ride explains the VF-19EF as being a stripped-down export version (a "monkey model") of the VF-19E. As the "Master File" books apparently aren't part of the official setting, this is actually the first halfway-reliable mention of the VF-19E's existence.

Even if the Master File books were part of the official setting, the VF-19EF wouldn't be replacing anything... the VF-19EF and Basara's VF-19改 would presumably just be variations on the stock VF-19E.

Dare I say it but I hope they make a toy of it.

Personally, I'm hoping for a model kit... or at least directions for kitbashing your own.

Edited by Seto Kaiba

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A double-suffix goes against NATO/US tri-service aircraft designations, which is what Macross generally follows quite closely. (VF-2SS doesn't count).

You can add all the prefixes you want--VF itself is already a double, RVF-25 is perfectly fine/logical, but VF-19EF? No. EFs? Quasi-Russian at best, and totally goes against all previous Macross history AFAIK, as well as the US system it's based on.

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It happens in Macross on occasion. The VF-1xRs spring to mind. (VF-1AR, JR, SR) Besides, I know it's not technically an official designation, but don't forget the F-16CJs. ;)

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A double-suffix goes against NATO/US tri-service aircraft designations, which is what Macross generally follows quite closely. (VF-2SS doesn't count).

It happens in Macross on occasion. The VF-1xRs spring to mind. (VF-1AR, JR, SR)

Eh... the use of a double-suffix may be more common in Macross II's parallel world continuity, but it's not like it's unique to it. In the confines of Macross II's official setting, the second suffix letter denotes either a unit carrying special purpose equipment (VF-1xR, VF-4S[P/T]), or the operational regime it was designed for (VF-2x[A/S]). The use of second suffix letters is far less consistent in the main continuity and sources based on it. The use in this particular case is consistent with some versions of US fighters built either for experimental purposes (F-16XL) or under license by foreign powers (F-15DJ).

You can add all the prefixes you want--VF itself is already a double, RVF-25 is perfectly fine/logical, but VF-19EF? No. EFs? Quasi-Russian at best, and totally goes against all previous Macross history AFAIK, as well as the US system it's based on.

No, it actually doesn't... at least not entirely. There's always the VF-5000T-G, the VF-11MAXL, VF-171EX, etc... or non-canon customs like the VF-19ES and VF-25Gu. One would assume that, as with the F-15DJ and the still-in-testing F-16IN, the atypical use of a second suffix letter denotes that it's a VF-19E is either being built for, or under license by, (and to a somewhat different spec) what is technically a foreign power (from Earth's perspective)... the Frontier government.

Edited by Seto Kaiba

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