sketchley Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) (...) it seems that Macross fandom has settled on two versions: either you love and accept Bassara as the savior of the universe and his music as awesome - and therefore overlook any and all potential goofiness in M7 OR you exagerate that goofiness to make it sound like there's nothing else in the series except a red and yellow valk with some dude singing J-POP and making rainbow colored swirls shoot at Inhumanoids rejects.(...) IMHO, I disagree. First, there should be three camps: loved it, hated it, and don't care one way or the other. Secondly, I don't think those pro the series love Basara and accept him as the savior of the universe. Perhaps it's more like they put up with Basara and accept him for what he's doing in the series? Anyhow, the utra-simplified "loved it" or "hated it" pretty much covers the two extremes - as each person has their likes and dislikes. Anyhow, here are some of the reasons why I dig the series: - it takes the time to develop the characters. - by the time the metaphysical stuff really starts happening, it's been well developed in the preceeding two dozen episodes that it doesn't come as that much more of a suspension of disbelief. - the mecha designs (economy of line baby, yeah.) Probably the only part of the series that I dislike are: - the blocky and bloopy variable craft in the action sequences that should be sleek and aerodynamic. I can understand recycling footage. I can also appreciate the animators spending more time on the character animation (which is what M7 is all about). But bloopifying mecha? Edited November 10, 2009 by sketchley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzan Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Probably the only part of the series that I dislike are: - the blocky and bloopy variable craft in the action sequences that should be sleek and aerodynamic. I can understand recycling footage. I can also appreciate the animators spending more time on the character animation (which is what M7 is all about). But bloopifying mecha? Sometimes you just have to cut corners, right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Probably the only part of the series that I dislike are: - the blocky and bloopy variable craft in the action sequences that should be sleek and aerodynamic. I can understand recycling footage. I can also appreciate the animators spending more time on the character animation (which is what M7 is all about). But bloopifying mecha? The 90's were more or less dominated by the very stylized art of Masami Obari who was an animator for Ashi Productions. I don't believe he worked on Macross 7, but a lot of animators at that studio seemed to adopt his style. Even the artists are Sunrise took up that style when animating the mid-90's Yuusha Series shows. There's some scenes in episode 26 (the one where Dick and Morry are introduced) that are sort of overdone in that distinct Obari style with the VF-17 being drawn with exaggerated proportions. The gunpod especially grew to being a longer weapon. Even in general the Valkyries and Elgerzorenes especially were drawn more like this Dragonar-1 toy which is stylized after the Obari animated opening. The same thing happened in the original Macross as well with the VF-1 being drawn very differently depending on the animator. Ichiro Itano and Hideaki Anno seemed to have their own ideas on how the VF-1 should look and move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Interesting. I also generally had some trouble liking the mecha art in M7 for the reasons noted above. But then again, it could also be due to the fact that the VF-1, which is not as complex as the VF-11B/C or VF-17 simply looks fine using "less complex" animation styles... or maybe it was because of Macross Plus. Seeing how the VF-11B looked in Macross Plus, you kind of expect them to carry that over to M7. Heh - in fact- it's almost like Macross Plus gave us great mecha anime and sub-par character anime while M7 gave us good character animation with sub par mecha animation. Only Macross Frontier managed to succeed on all fronts. It really is an awesome series... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 There's some scenes in episode 26 (the one where Dick and Morry are introduced) that are sort of overdone in that distinct Obari style with the VF-17 being drawn with exaggerated proportions. The gunpod especially grew to being a longer weapon. Even in general the Valkyries and Elgerzorenes especially were drawn more like this Dragonar-1 toy which is stylized after the Obari animated opening. The same thing happened in the original Macross as well with the VF-1 being drawn very differently depending on the animator. Ichiro Itano and Hideaki Anno seemed to have their own ideas on how the VF-1 should look and move. I actually liked that shot - hyper extended gun pod, et al. It brought a stylistic edge to the mecha that was kinda lacking (perhaps I should say the non-Kawamori style that was being applied up until then wasn't my cup of tea?) Don't get me wrong, I love the mecha designs in Macross 7. But for me, IMHO, it's the only part that wasn't translated well into animation in a bunch of places. Which is annoying, as the animators could produce some great looking stuff (in addition to the above mentioned, the battle inside the 3-Star comes to mind in the first handful of episodes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Only Macross Frontier managed to succeed on all fronts. It really is an awesome series... (...) To be honest, I found the character parts of Macross F as the weaker link of the series (not the weakest. That falls to the (lack of effective) bad guys.) Sure, some where decent - and I really like how they handled the Ranka being discovered and becoming famous aspects, but overall... the characters are just not that memoriable for me. Of course, hands down, MF has the best action sequences. Hopefully they won't ruin it in the movie like was done with SDFM. Honestly, DYRL has waaaaaaay too much detail at times. To the point where it's difficult to follow the action, let alone comprehend where one thing stops, and another begins. Hmmm... DYRL is another case of good designs not translating well to animation. Though, in this case, it's not due to faithfully following the designs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 To be honest, I found the character parts of Macross F as the weaker link of the series (not the weakest. That falls to the (lack of effective) bad guys.) Sure, some where decent - and I really like how they handled the Ranka being discovered and becoming famous aspects, but overall... the characters are just not that memoriable for me. Well - I will never forget how I slowly fell in love with Ranka as the series progressed. And I NEVER expected her to become a star singer - honestly. Maybe I'm blind and naive, but when she lost the Miss Macross concert, I thought - she is destined to forever be the cute waitress with big dreams...Man...when episode 12 rolled around and she came in and saved Alto and the others with her song... I was totally surprised and thought it was cool. I dunno...that's just one character...Ozma is pretty memorable too... I really liked how him and Cathy get back together towards the end of the series... The only characters who were kind of footnotes were Brera, Klan Klan and Grace - who towards the end was suddenly reveaed as the main "bad guy" - but you can't really say she was a character that was developed... I dunno... but overall I loved the characters... they were great. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Don't get me wrong, I love the mecha designs in Macross 7. But for me, IMHO, it's the only part that wasn't translated well into animation in a bunch of places. Which is annoying, as the animators could produce some great looking stuff (in addition to the above mentioned, the battle inside the 3-Star comes to mind in the first handful of episodes). This is the scene I was thinking of. Overall the early episodes of Macross 7 had their best mecha scene inside the colony ships since most of the stock footage was of space combat. I like the part where Gigil was tearing up the fleet with his prototype energy cannon. I especially liked the scene of him and two other Elgerzorene's flying just above the 3-Star's banner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I dunno. The problem is that the animation in Macross 7 is not really that much better than in SDFM TV. And SDFM TV is good animation the the standards of the time it was made. Meanwhile, Macross 7...well... let's just say that there's a reason why Gainax stole the show in the 1990s me thinks...er...besides their great story lines... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Macross 7 isn't any better or worse than any other year spanning anime mecha series from the 90's. Even Evangelion is both shorter and chock full of still frames and stock footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSpex Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I`m 31 and the same way as you, Peter. When I saw Robotech in `85 I literally cried when the last episode aired. So theres definately nostalgia. But the series definately has an authentic, non mass produced and non commercial quality about it. You can tell it was made with love and passion and I respect that. It was also made in an era when Japan was mega rich, gritty robot dramas were popular and people had more creative freedom. For every few crappy scenes that were made in SDF because of time constraints theres a beautiful scene that kicks the ass of anything on TV out there today. why waste money on all these poor imitations of the original when theres so much original series product to collect? Its better to keep a collection focused when you dont have an unlimited budget. My personal canon doesnt include M plus, M7, MF or M0. They never happened as far as I`m concerned. They didnt hold my interest at all so why bother? MII and certain video games are in my personal canon however. As a OG series purist I`m personally looking forward to Gubaba`s translation project and my next trip to every Mandrake in Tokyo. Just pick and choose what you like, didnt Kawamori say that each Macross show now exists on a different plain of Macross reality to avoid continuity arguments or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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