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Transformers Super Thread 9

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Hope they re-issue more of the Gestalts, especially the Protectobots since they were my favorite.

I would root for the Protectobots as well. Alongside the Combaticons, they are the best of the best Gestalt teams in terms of personalities, alt modes, and overall looks. I would love to have them. The worst gestalt IMO was Superion - very skinny and gangly looking. Menasor, Bruticus and Defensor are ace though.

So yeah... Protectobots would be nice.

But since we got Metroplex and Bruticus, and we've had a lot of the 84 cars and planes released, it would make somewhat sense to focus on the Scramble city line.

Although at some point this piecemeel thing is going to wear thin. I would prefer if they just issued the whole blody 1984 range one year, then the 85 range, then 86, then 87 and so on. On a rotational basis.

Bring back those entire toy catalogue and just issue the whole line for one year and next year next and so on.

And while they're at it, they could also transport me back to 1986 just so I could enjoy my wonderful childhood a bit longer... :(

Pete

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So I take it no new pictures or info have come out for the Leader class SS?

Chris

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So I take it no new pictures or info have come out for the Leader class SS?

Chris

I think this is all we have seen:

2rrayl2.jpg

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Picked up Jolt and Blazemaster from ROTF. I bought Jolt on impulse, but let me just say the box pics do not flatter this figure at all. He has some great poseability, except for the head due to a pointless wedge shaped piece that sits directly behind the head. It has no part in the transformation, no part of alt mode. It's just there. I wonder what the designers are thinking sometimes. Blazemaster has been on my buy list since pics first floated on the internet, and he doesn't disappoint. While Takara can't make a jet for poo without showing robot parts hanging out, this guy is a thing of beauty. The colors on mine varied alot from the box (I'd prefer the gold colorings..most of the gold parts on the bot based off the pic are white on mine. This, a single thumb with no fingers, and the inexcusable lack of forward and back shoulder rotation due to the ball joint facing forward are my only gripes). The rotor has a spin mechanism, but it folds nicely on the arm. The gear extend and retract. I get an Airwolf vibe everytime I look at it head on in chopper mode. Anyway, the bot mode is very lanky, and all the excess kibble folds nicely on its back. Transformation is a bit of a pain, but the final chopper is worth it.

As a really impulse buy, I also picked up ice ream truck Skids/Mudflap. The final truck is neat, if not a bit of a novelty. The separate bots are very small, about Scout size. Each has a quite a bit of poseability for its size. I hate the fugly heads and the asymmetrical hands, but overall, the bots resemble their screen likenesses, and the ice cream truck is well done, and, well, kinda cute.

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Nice find!! I'm still on the hunt for Jolt, Ice cream truck Skids + Mudflap, and Blaze Master.

:ph34r:

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I would root for the Protectobots as well. Alongside the Combaticons, they are the best of the best Gestalt teams in terms of personalities, alt modes, and overall looks. I would love to have them. The worst gestalt IMO was Superion - very skinny and gangly looking. Menasor, Bruticus and Defensor are ace though.

So yeah... Protectobots would be nice.

But since we got Metroplex and Bruticus, and we've had a lot of the 84 cars and planes released, it would make somewhat sense to focus on the Scramble city line.

Although at some point this piecemeel thing is going to wear thin. I would prefer if they just issued the whole blody 1984 range one year, then the 85 range, then 86, then 87 and so on. On a rotational basis.

Bring back those entire toy catalogue and just issue the whole line for one year and next year next and so on.

And while they're at it, they could also transport me back to 1986 just so I could enjoy my wonderful childhood a bit longer... :(

Pete

From what i read, it wouldn't be 100% of the lines... :unsure:

as apparently, they have lost the moulds to Mirage , Aerialbots and Protectabots.sad.gif

Edited by altermodes

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as apparently, they have lost the moulds to Mirage , Aerialbots and Protectabots.sad.gif

I think they also lost the molds to G1 Sunstreaker and Wheeljack too ...

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Wheeljack is a real shame.

But then again, back in the day Soundwave's moulds were lost, Omega Supreme belonged to another company and on and on and on. They managed to deal with that...

I guess I just wonder what's around the corner. I'm pleased with all the cassettes coming out, given that there are a zillion Soundwave reissues on the market now, it makes sense and since the cassettes are so wonderful, it's pleasant.

But what else do they really have to do? Dinobots?

Will we finally get a Dinobot Gifst Set?

Pete

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Ariealbots and Protectobots molds lost? I somehow doubt that... I mean, if the knockoff companies can make near perfect knockoffs of Defensor and Superion, I think Takara Tomy can fix their lost mold problems. That or check the warehouse...

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I just opened Encore 17 and was so happy to finally have the supreme leader of the Decepticons...Ratbat!

I always found Ratbat to be the greatest of leaders. Shockwave was always so logical and calculating, but his arithmetic never took account of fuel economy, which was actually a major flaw in his otherwise "logical" worldview. On the other hand, Ratbat wasn't merely a walking, or rathe floating, calculator either.

Now all I need is a Throttlebot reissue set! :)

Pete

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I could see a Cyclonus reissue doing very well. I know I'd buy one.

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I thought I heard a while back that the molds for Metroplex were either ruined or lost but somehow they released an encore. I dont get why they cant just buy some new molds from the guys who make the unofficial ripoff mirage and sell em on e-bay. On another subject I picked up ROTF Ransack(the biplane) today and he is awesome! I highly reccomend him to anyone.

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I thought I heard a while back that the molds for Metroplex were either ruined or lost but somehow they released an encore. I dont get why they cant just buy some new molds from the guys who make the unofficial ripoff mirage and sell em on e-bay. On another subject I picked up ROTF Ransack(the biplane) today and he is awesome! I highly reccomend him to anyone.

I can answer these mold questions. What they do is called a reverse molding. They disassemble a figure, make a temp mold, then use the temp mold to make a permanent mold using imaging and some serious fine milling. You need a really flawless figure to this for one (no nicks/imperfections), and two, it is a VERY expensive process. That's why they redid Soundwave, as he was a more popular figure than say Wheeljack.

As for the bootleggers, what they do is just make temp molds using reverse molding rather than make a permanent one, and keep using temp molds to make production figures. It's an ok process for a while, but if you're unlucky and get a figure cast from the tail end of the mold's lifespan, you'll see waviness in the plastic, panels not quite the right size and blemishes. It's basically a gamble on what you get. Odds are you'll get a decent one, but eventually, you will end up with a nasty figure.

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Don't know if any of you guys have been to Target lately, but I stopped by for something else and wound up finding and picking up RotF Bruticus Maximus. Just a heads up if anyone's looking for him.

EDIT: Bruticus might be my favorite of the Classics/RotF Energon reissue combiners. The helicopters take some fiddling, but overall he's solid, his components are decent Transformers in their own right, and the Energon weapons actually make decent hands, especially the ones for the helicopters (although two helicopter arms makes him look a little un-buff).

I might feel differently if the fan add-ons were cheaper/more available/actually came with Superion, or if Silverbolt's legs weren't put together wrong (I'm missing a tool to fix them myself), because Superion does look slick in some of the photos I've seen. But out of the box, I gotta give it to Bruticus.

Edited by mikeszekely

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Cool, hopefully this means Bruticus will be easier to find. I've heard of only a handful of sightings lately and none of them in nearby Targets.

Picked up Swerve today and now I'm thinking of doing a head swap with Sideswipe so he can be in his "true" colors. Also saw Ejector and HA Sideswipe. I would've picked up Sideswipe, but the way his whole back just hangs there in bot just turns me off. BTW, TRU is clearing out their stock of Universe Ultras and Voyagers by having a 50% off sale. I would've picked up Blades for $10 if I didn't have him already.

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Damn, RotF Bruticus Maximus is out?? Hopefully he will be easy to find ...

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I really could(and should) have worked a lot more on my MP TC this week, but I did get the last 2 pins back in. Gotta work up the nerve to hack the tailbooms apart, then I can paint the fins black...

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Been playing with Bruticus for awhile now, and there's a few things I'm really loving about him vs. the other Energon combiners.

1. Bruticus' chest has a distinct look when compared to the chest of the robot that forms his torso, while Devestator and Superion's chests are pretty much the same as the bots that make up their torsos.

2. The Energon weapons actually look like weapons for the individual bots. Superion's do too, but Devastator's were terrible. Especially the cranes'.

3. The Energon weapons actually look like parts of the vehicles. Extra guns and radar for the tank, landing skids for the copters. The weapons don't look too bad on the A-10s in Superion, but the rest are kibble on their vehicles. Especially Devastator's cranes'.

4. The Energon weapons actually look like they belong on the combined bot. Devastator's shovels' weapons made sort of passable claws and feet, but again his crane's weapons were terrible and out of place. The A-10s' weapons don't look too bad as feet, but as hands it makes Superion look like he's wearing mittens. And the other jets' weapons just look stupid as hands or feet. Bruticus' tanks' weapons are no worse as hands than anything Devastator or Superion's got, but I prefer them as feet for one simple reason: the helicopters' weapons actually look like hands with four fingers and a thumb.

5. The individual robots are pretty solid in their own right. Superion's weren't too bad, but I think Bruticus' are a little better. As for Devastator, the huge crane arms on his cranes and the huge shovel hand for Devastator's torso bot leave a bit to be desired. Not to mention that the cranes' heads are pretty much showing in alt mode.

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Hrm...I skipped Bruticus the first time around but this new release is calling to me. Hope I can find one.

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I think it was these Energon Combiners that were the first proverbial thumbtack in the coffin (or however the saying goes) in terms of me and modern Transformers. Armada really really soured me. That was the first time I was like "huh? why? what is this?" with a Transformer. Beast Wars at least was a novel idea and the animal sculpts/moulds were ok as were the robot forms. And the poseability. But Armada took such a step back on all fronts - unrealistic, lanky vehicle modes, no poseability, flat uninteresting characters...er... anyways.. then Energon rolled around...and these Combiners, with the twin limbs...the lack of hands... just..terrible...

Maybe one day I might get back into Beast Wars, but that's pretty much it for me... I am surprised the Energon Combiners are getting repaints. I was bowled over by the statement at one of the botcons that it's hard for them to make combiners. Could'a fooled me. Predaking, Menasor, Devastator, Bruticus, Abominus, Defensor, Superion, Computron, Dinoking...the list is quite long...and those awesome Micromaster combiners too... Looked like a pretty good track record. Heck, even Tripredicus and Magnaboss were quite good. So...why the sudden fall in standards?

Pete

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See, I'm just the opposite. It was Energon where TF really started coming around for me again. I got back into TF's on the tail end of RID, so I missed out on most of those, and then Armada came along and I didn't like most of the toys so I felt sort of alienated. I found more to like in Energon, and then even more in Cybertron. I think my adoration for modern TFs peaked with Classics and Animated, as those were my absolute favorites, even more so than most G1 toys (dear as they are to me). I feel particularly alienated at the moment with all of the Movie excitement as the designs hold absolutely no appeal for me, but I'm sure more lines will come along that appeal to my tastes. :)

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Well, I will admit that after Armada, Energon DID get me excited because we started getting all of those homages. Shockblast was the most obvious, as well as Megazarak who was JUST AWESOME...and I remember really loving that figure. Ravage, heck even Megatron with his Galvatron homage. The Autobots had fewer such homages, at least initially...

And in those days, which was pre-Henkei/Classics, I guess that was something to get excited about.

The thing is, I have found myself being burned out on multiple lines. There's just too many TFs to keep up with. Collecting each and every single line is....something I just can't do any more. And if you're not willing to collect everything, then you start facing these horrible dilemas like "which version of this character should I get?" ...and you always have these holes in your collection.

So I guess that's a big reason why I just decided - screw it - I'm going to settle for G1.

Pete

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I grew up on G1. I watched the cartoon, I read the Marvel comic books, and I had the toys when I was a kid. As an adult, I still read or have read Dreamwave and IDW's G1 Transformers. I buy the DVDs. But the toys?

Occasionally I'll buy a G1 reissue, like Optimus Prime and Soundwave. I'm actually really looking forward to the Toys 'R' Us exclusive Insecticons (Perceptor... somewhat). I can give the G1 line, or at least the '84-'85 line, a lot of credit for producing toys that looked like real vehicles in alt mode. But G1 toys can never be my favorite, because of the limited engineering at the time. They rarely looked like their animation models, and you were lucky if they had enough posability to move their legs. So when I was in my teens, I somehow let my parents give away a lot of my old Transformers (which I'm bummed about, because I had some seriously cool ones like Powermaster Prime, Tripticon, Metroplex, Omega Supreme, and Scorponok). And, despite being a member of a board where people were buying toys since I was in college, a part of me sort of thought of toys as something for kids to play with, not something to collect. I wasn't even tempted, aside from RID Prime, until late in the Energon line. I really wanted Prime, Deluxe Starscream, Shockblast, Scorponok, and Megatron. If I was single, I probably would have started collecting Transformers right then and there, but I didn't think I could get it to fly with my wife.

And so it went on, until the Classics line came out. Modern reimaginings of G1 characters, with posable bots? I was sold. And so it was that I bought all of the Classics/Universe figures except for anything smaller than a Deluxe (with the exceptions of Wheelie, Brawn, Beachcomber, Cosmos, and Warpath), Dinobot, Cheetor, and Hot Shot. I bought a handful of Animated figures, a smaller handful of movie figures, and three RotF figures (not counting movie/RotF figures that were repaints of Cybertron/Energon figure).

I'm at a point now where I'll buy a figure if it interests me, but I'm mostly into Classics/Universe. On the occasions when I do buy outside that line, it's only because I think the figure might fit with the line anyway (ex, I bought a movie Fracture, plus Animated Blackarachnia and Waspinator for my Classics Decepticons, and a movie Storm Surge that I repainted into Seaspray).

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Well, it certainly is interesting to discover people's reasons for their buying preferences :)

With me - I once agreed with your line of thinking in terms of poseability. I thought - heck - these G1 toys can't pose at all. It seemed that good Transformers really started with BW (or the taile end of G1 when they were poseable)... And I avidly collected each and every consecutive line from BW through RID and then Armada, Energon, Cybertron...you name it...

But then a couple of things happened:

1) I just couldn't get into the Unicron Trilogy cartoons. The stories were so ridiculously uninteresting to me. The Dreamwave comics were boring, except for Simon Furman's Warwithin run. I found myself constantly missing the original Transformers mythos, going back to the Titan paperbacks, the UK TF stuff in particular, Bob Budiansky's Marvel run. Those stories - for me - defined Transformers, and with each new series, particularly with post-Beast Machines severing all ties to previous continuity - I just felt bummed out. When it turned out that re-boots were going to be constant...it was tragic. Transformers stopped being a decades sweeping epic and became an annual reboot...yuk.

2) My introduction to Macross goods produced by Yamato, and then to Gundams and other fine quality Japanese mecha and figures. These taught me that Transformers were truly inferior toys in every imaginable way possible. No Transformer could rival the higher quality stuff being produced for other anime. In a way, this was understandable, since Transformers were meant to be cheap, widely accessable to a broad market. Therefore, naturally one ought not expect them to be exquisitly detailed. Indeed, making an entire annual line of exquisitley detailed, anime accurate Transformers would cost way too much because there were just too many characters to account for. Still, the point was - I realized that Transformers were actually low-end toys and there was so much other cool stuff out there that it became necessary to economize, to ask myself - do I really want hundreds of Transformers from all the different series in my house?... Or maybe I would like hudreds of figures, models and toys from assorted anime alongside them?

3) Memories from childhood started to haunt me. See, despite the low poseability of the G1 toys, I fondly remembered just how many joyous adventures I filmed with those toys. When I was 13, I got a video-camera after begging for it. I then proceeded to draw and paint backgrounds and pen episodes of Transformers and did the voice overs and filmed episodes. Yeah, the G1 toys were "unposeable," but my movies were just so awesome! To this day I love reading over the stories because there is so much childhood joy and imagination and fantasy in them. I never experienced anything similar with more modern incarnations of Transformers. Why? Because I had no inspiration. My G1 movies and stories were inspired by the Marvel comics and the cartoon which actually had an amazing story to tell with great characters. I couldn't really find that in Armada or any of the Unicron trilogy. Animated...Animated I "liked" - but the ONLY reason I liked it was because of all the homages to G1. It's kind of like the feeling you get when you meet a woman who SORT OF reminds you of the girl you really love. Yeah, she's great...but she's only great because she reminds you of something TRULY great...

So... to make a long story short, when I noticed that more and more reissues were coming out, and that every time I got one I was just so utterly joyful... it dawned on me that the G1 stuff was what I really wanted.

In fact - regarding this question of the toys not looking like the animation models... call me crazy - but to me - they do. To me, G1 Optimus Prime looks closer to the animation model then Henkei Prime. G1 Megatron actually looks closer to the animation model than Henkei Megatron. Lots of the Henkei/Classic designs are actually not very faithful to the animation models and take extreme liberties. And even those that don't...they still...well... they just lack something. It's hard to put into words...

With the Encore line going strong in terms of giving us some really fantastic releases, there just came a point where I looked at my TF shelf, full of great G1 toys and thought - this is what I really want.

That was the beginning of the end for all the other stuff. Even Masterpiece went bye bye.

Pete

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I have a Rogue's gallery on top of my dresser.

  • A knockoff of the G1 Devastator
  • A knockoff of G1 Superion
  • The Cybertron version of Starscream (the most expensive figure I have)
  • The Cybertron version of Optimus Prime
  • The Classic version of Starscream (the one the pays tribute to the G1 form)
  • Starscream from the first movie (believe it or not, he does have a G.E.R.W.A.L.K. form)

I also have a bunch of other figures in a box in my room, too big of a list to post here.

That pic of Superion Supreme is a lot different than the one pictured on the back of my Storm Jet package, Grand Admiral.

Edited by Wanzerfan

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This Superion uses the same molds for the legs and arms!? Pure garbage!

It's not just him.

All of the "Energon" derivative combiners do this. Bruticus Maximus and the construction vehicle one (forgot his name) also do it.

They just recolor the limbs, but it is the same mold. So basically it's three molds, out of which two of them get doubls.

I agree - it is pure garbage. It's also no fun.

Pete

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The best Energon combiner is one you make yourself. Bruticus works very nicely if you use 2 planes from Superion. 4 different limbs---A-10, F-22, heli, tank. (though I often actually go with 1 plane and 1 constructicon)

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Maybe one day I might get back into Beast Wars, but that's pretty much it for me... I am surprised the Energon Combiners are getting repaints. I was bowled over by the statement at one of the botcons that it's hard for them to make combiners. Could'a fooled me. Predaking, Menasor, Devastator, Bruticus, Abominus, Defensor, Superion, Computron, Dinoking...the list is quite long...and those awesome Micromaster combiners too... Looked like a pretty good track record. Heck, even Tripredicus and Magnaboss were quite good. So...why the sudden fall in standards?
This was elaborated upon years back at Botcon. The designers have the skill level required to design an awesome gestalt but the challenge isn't that, it's to convince retailers that having 4 different limbs in waves plus a leader in a bigger size class is a good marketing decision. Sure guys like us think it's a good idea and want this to happen but retailers are different. Add to that, the energon gestalts were said to be late or last minute decisions(which played a part in the limbs being repaints of one another). I remember it had something to do with cost and feasibility. Add to that, Magnaboss and Tripredacus in Beast Wars came in gift sets so there is no worry about one limb being a shelf warmer; in Energon, unless you bought the Takara releases, you were buying each component separately.

In any case I found the gestalts to be disappointing. I'd rather have different limbs and more stability but retain full articulation. Devastator and Superion in Energon were unstable in gestalt mode and not easy to stand. The individual limb components were awesome on their own in vehicle and robot modes, but combined mode, surprisingly, was the most disappointing.

See, I'm just the opposite. It was Energon where TF really started coming around for me again. I got back into TF's on the tail end of RID, so I missed out on most of those, and then Armada came along and I didn't like most of the toys so I felt sort of alienated. I found more to like in Energon, and then even more in Cybertron. I think my adoration for modern TFs peaked with Classics and Animated, as those were my absolute favorites, even more so than most G1 toys (dear as they are to me). I feel particularly alienated at the moment with all of the Movie excitement as the designs hold absolutely no appeal for me, but I'm sure more lines will come along that appeal to my tastes.
If I could go back in time, I would have skipped Armada and Energon save for Unicron, and bought more Cybertron figures(Armada and Energon filled me with buyer's regret, but Cyberton was a very satisfying line...Cybertron Prime is one of my all time favorite Optimus Prime figures). RID was awesome, wish I bought the train brothers. I admire the movie lines a great deal, because they share something in common with Beast Wars; a huge mass market toyline that retains full articulation(except for Leader Megatron in ROTF) in robot mode with a good variety of characters to choose from. The balance of complexity, articulation and sculpting sold me on the lines. I love the automorph gimmick, prefer it over mech-alive and felt that the transformations developed for the movieline were pretty satisfying.

Classics and Animated are great too, Animated is a line that I will sorely miss, same goes for the show. The incorporation of automorph was a neat touch, and the fact that the animated styalization was retained WITH full articulation on nearly all of the figures sold me on the line. This is something that Hasbro knocked the ball of out of the park with. Classics is like the G3 I always wanted; a modern line of Transformers figures with the G1 characters we grew up with.

Lots of the Henkei/Classic designs are actually not very faithful to the animation models and take extreme liberties. And even those that don't...they still...well... they just lack something. It's hard to put into words...
That's because they weren't supposed to look like the animation models(paintjobs aside) verbatim. They are supposed to be modernized versions of the G1 characters.

Now if Haskaraomy were to make a G1 accurate, fully articulated line of Transformers WITH diecast as a wide ranged(meaning not a line with very few releases) line, I'd be more than happy to purchase them. I think that's ultimately what all G1 adult fans want eventually. Henkei has a lot of modernized G1 designs, and I admire them a great deal, but a G1 recreated line with modern technology would satisfy me a great deal. I mean come on, who DIDN'T want their G1 Prime to have full articulation and look the way he was on the cartoon but still retain the same level of detail as the toy?

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Hm, I dunno...I've been thinking about this lately....and ...(not surprisingly for me)...have come to the conclusion that G1 should just be left alone at reissues.

Every attempt at making a G1-like bot has fallen short in some respect, at least for me. To the point where it's like...what's the point? I dunno. I guess part of the problem is that there is no such thing as 'G1 acurate' - at least not for me, insofar as the comics had different art styles and therefore different interpretations of the characters anyways.

But all of those interpretations were based off of the toy design - and part of what made Transformers fun was using your imagination...thanks to imagination, that blocky bot never seemed blocky, but instead came alive.

And part of the fun was that there were just so many of them with various personalities...

I dunno... they'll never reproduce new versions of ALL of the characters we love. So I just give up on waiting.

Prefer to just collect G1 and that's that... :p

Lazy me.

Pete

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The best Energon combiner is one you make yourself. Bruticus works very nicely if you use 2 planes from Superion. 4 different limbs---A-10, F-22, heli, tank. (though I often actually go with 1 plane and 1 constructicon)

Don't some of the deluxes have faction symbols molded in? That always annoyed me, and in a franchise that constantly repaints molds, it seems counterproductive. Anyway, they really should have crossed over more of the team limbs. Bruticus needed at least one jet for a proper Blast-off and Superion could have used a helicopter(it is an air team afterall). It would have been easy for them to do, and I'm sure the kids would have preferred it(I know us collectors do).

What really annoyed me was the translucent energon weapons in Energon. On the combiners they looked especially stupid. I'm dissappointed that Target Bruticus kept them instead of following suit with the recent re-releases of Target Elita-1 and Classics Devastator, which tried to make the weapon pieces look as solid as possible.

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It would have been great if they had molded the Target Bruticus' hands/feet in black plastic. Not only are they still clear, but they are four slightly different shades of orange, which makes them look even worse to me. I didn't notice it so much in pics, but now that I have the guy standing right here on my desk top, the four colors really stand out and detract from the overall look. I still dig him though. The torso bot is a great toy on his own, which really helps. I didn't really like the Superion set because Silverbolt was such a crummy toy (even after the mods).

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