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Transformers Super Thread 9


eriku

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Ummm nobody's going to believe this, but Walmart was selling Leader class Animated figures for 20 bucks. So guess what I picked up? SHADOW BLADE Megatron...which I THOUGHT was a TRU exclusive...how the hell does Walmart have it?

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New non-movie Transformers game from High Moon Studios coming in 2010. Activision loves annual installments of their franchises, but a solid Transformers game without the movie nonsense could be a good thing. I just wish that if they were going to do a pre-earth Transformers game they'd have stuck to the War Within designs instead of doing their own thing I don't get why Prime is all blocky but Megatron and Soundwave are kinda of spikey. This game's Megatron especially looks like G1 Megatron and Bayformer Megatron had a baby.
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New non-movie Transformers game from High Moon Studios coming in 2010. Activision loves annual installments of their franchises, but a solid Transformers game without the movie nonsense could be a good thing. I just wish that if they were going to do a pre-earth Transformers game they'd have stuck to the War Within designs instead of doing their own thing I don't get why Prime is all blocky but Megatron and Soundwave are kinda of spikey. This game's Megatron especially looks like G1 Megatron and Bayformer Megatron had a baby.

Hm...I like how they are trying to market this as "G1-esque" ... It seems to me that the terms "G1" has indeed finally come to mean absolutely nothing save maybe "blocky" ... It has little to do with the original cartoon and comics - which, actually, were never "G1" in the first place. The first place to officially use the designation "Generation 1" was...Dreamwave comics Transformers Generation 1. Prior to that, the original cartoon was always refered to by its' original title - The Transformers.

I find it interesting that in the history of this brand, the original title - The Transformers - has stopped referring in peoples' minds to the original cartoon and comics, and instead become this uber-concept, while "G1" - which has nothing to do with the original cartoon and comics but actually began with Dreamwave comics which were a re-imaging and re-telling (one of many reboots) that vaguely referred to what came before - has now actually come to encompass the original cartoon and comics.

The next step, as demonstrated by this video game, is that "G1" now means nothing. It doesn't mean the original cartoon and comics designs - it just means "blocky Optimus Prime" apparently...

Pete

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Alright guys, help me out here. I keep looking at the Target exclusive Leo Prime when I'm at the store. I know it's not a very good mold, I know the articulation is limited, and I'm fairly certain that I'd be generally disappointed with it. I also know that it'll probably be clearanced down to 4 bucks within a month. But even still the colors, the resculpted head, and my TF drought (haven't been buying movie toys) are compelling me to make a rash decision. Please talk some sense into me! :p

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I don't care how bad the designs are as long as the they make the game playable and fun.

More or less. Although I do have to admit, what I'd really like is a Transformers game like the Armada one Atari did... just with more playable characters and set in the G1 universe.

It seems to me that the terms "G1" has indeed finally come to mean absolutely nothing save maybe "blocky" ... It has little to do with the original cartoon and comics - which, actually, were never "G1" in the first place. The first place to officially use the designation "Generation 1" was...Dreamwave comics Transformers Generation 1. Prior to that, the original cartoon was always refered to by its' original title - The Transformers.

Maybe because prior to 2002 it was all one continuity? Except for Robots in Disguise, although Car Robots is part of the Japanese G1 continuity. Armada was the first Transformers series to be clearly set in an alternate Transformers universe, and the "Generation 1" label was retroactively applied to refer to the Transformers of the original cartoon/comic/toy line. Some kind of label had to be applied; the blanket term "The Transformers" could now apply to any of the various continuities.

Further, I don't think G1 is a meaningless label. G1 refers to exactly what I said: the original cartoon/toy/comic line. Dreamwave places their comics in that setting. IDW re-imagines it. Nobody's saying that Bayformers, Armada, Animated, etc are G1. And without reading the actual GI article that reveals this game, I don't think anyone's calling this new game G1 either. There's a difference between "This game is G1" and "This game is G1-esque." And the designs for the game, while ugly, are evocative of G1 in other ways than by simply being "blocky." They're colored like their G1 counterparts. Prime's got the grill on his abs, something that could be windows on his chest, and the vents on his shins. Megatron's got his bucket helmet and Fusion Cannon. Soundwave's got the panel on his chest and his shoulder gun.

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and the "Generation 1" label was retroactively applied to refer to the Transformers of the original cartoon/comic/toy line.

Yes, it was so retroactively applied- but by who? By Hasbro? By something in the cannon? No. It just became a convenience amongst fans.

That's my point - it's a convention that has nothing to do with reality. The original cartoon and comics are not "Generation 1"

The only thing that is generation 1 is the Dreamwave comics which, ironically, come AFTER the official Generation 2 comics.

So -chronologically speaking - Generation 2 was first. Generation 1 was second :)

Shows how much these people care about the continuity :)

I don't think G1 is a meaningless label. G1 refers to exactly what I said: the original cartoon/toy/comic line. Dreamwave places their comics in that setting. IDW re-imagines it.

I disagree. Dreamwave doesn't place their comics into that setting. You might get that impression from the first issue of their "Generation 1" comics, but once you ge to "War and Peace" - it is patently clear that none of what is happening has anything to do with the original cartoon or the original comics, beyond using the same characters with relatively similar appearances and constantly using lines and scenes from the first Transformers movie. Beyond that - it is not the same continuity. It is a new continuity. IDW also has nothing to do with the original cartoon or comic.

So - G1 does not refer to the original cartoon/toy/comic line.

The original cartoon/toy/comic line was called Transformers.

Then came Transformers Generation 2

Then came Beast Wars Transformers

Then came Beast Machines

And then suddenly came...Generation 1

And nowadays, "Generation 1" is this vague slogan that is supposed to tap nostalgia even though it relies on nobody remembering the original material, but rather just accepting that "G1" is cool because "nostalgia" is cool and "old skool TF is cool" --- even though the people using this label often nowadays don't have any memory of the original cartoon/comic/toy line.

It's certainly a "living" label - I'll give it that :) It "transforms" over time. But if you want to be accurate - Generation 1 comes at the tail end and has really come to mean something not necessarily connected to the original Transformers

IMO of course.

Pete

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Go buy Leo Convoy from BW II. He's a far better toy. He actually turns into something that looks like a lion, he has great articulation and a he's the star of a cartoon.

Pete

Bleh, I don't like that toy at all. With the head on one shoulder and tail on the other it looks like he's got a lion jumping through him in bot mode. Plus I'm not a big fan of 'realistic' animal modes. I like 'em to look angular and roboty. Thanks for the suggestion though! :)

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Well that explains your inclination to buy Leo Prime then.

I'm the opposite. I love the vannilla Beast Wars toys with realistic animal modes and animal bits hanging off their robot bodies.

I always though the robotic animals were a bit of a cop out later on... kind of like "futuristic cars and planes" - both are way easier to design than taking real world forms and hiding robots in them...

Pete

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I agree that the term G1 came after G2. However, Hasbro marketing their 1988(or so) toy line as Generation 2 automatically implies that what came before it is, in fact, Generation 1. I can tell you that, during the devoid-of-new-episodes Generation 2 run, I often grumbled about how Generation 1 was better. And that was pre-Dreamwave.

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Well that explains your inclination to buy Leo Prime then.

I'm the opposite. I love the vannilla Beast Wars toys with realistic animal modes and animal bits hanging off their robot bodies.

I always though the robotic animals were a bit of a cop out later on... kind of like "futuristic cars and planes" - both are way easier to design than taking real world forms and hiding robots in them...

Pete

Meh, I just prefer simple designs. I don't really consider them a "cop-out", just a different style. It's not like everyone who designs something simple is sitting there thinking, "Hmm, how can I cop-out on this design and make it really easy for myself?".

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I agree that the term G1 came after G2. However, Hasbro marketing their 1988(or so) toy line as Generation 2 automatically implies that what came before it is, in fact, Generation 1. I can tell you that, during the devoid-of-new-episodes Generation 2 run, I often grumbled about how Generation 1 was better. And that was pre-Dreamwave.

True enough.

But technically, "Generation 2" did not even refer to a truly "new" (aka rebooted) generation of Transformers, but was a story title that refered specifically to an off-shoot of Transformers who were born by celluar regeneration rather than from Primus - and therefore within the context of the Transformers universe of the comics, were a "second generation."

That is to say - "G2 Optimus Prime" is still actually "G1 Optimus Prime" - He's only called "G2 Prime" in reference to the story - Transformers: Generation 2. Just like, of course, "Beast Wars Optimus Prime" (from the end of season 2) is none other than Transformers "Generation 1" Optimus Prime - because it's the same Prime from 'More than Meets the Eye'

Sure, it became a colloquelism (sic?) to refer to pre-Marvel G2 TFs as "G1" -- but I think the designation was originally intended to only refer to literally pre-Marvel G2 MARVEL comics Transformers (since in the cartoon, there never was a G2).

Then - all of a sudden - "G1" has now grown to the point where it ENCOMPASSES G2.

That is to say- even thought G2 came chronologically before the official G1 (DW), G1 in the conventional sense CONTAINS...G2 :)

So if you say "I like G1 Transformers" you are saying "I like Transformers Generation 2" - since Generation 2 is - now, according to this broad definition of G1 -- PART OF G1.

All I was noting was that, with this video game featuring designs that have nothing to do with "G1" -either the original cartoon, or comic, or Dreamwave or anything else --- it still nonetheless gets labelled "G1-esque."

Why? Because Prime is blocky? So Animated is also "G1-esque" ?? And therefore it's a "G1" story?

If that's the next stage of evolution for the use of the term "G1" then..well --- G1 has become meaningless.

It's going to get to the point where you'll have a bunch of fans who grew up on Armada and think "G1" refers to those robots from episode 1 who looked like "old Transformers" like Hound and stuff...

I guess I'm just saying - I have the feeling that modern children who are Transformers fans don't know anything about the cartoon people like me grew up with - and to the extent that they heard of "G1" it's just this kind of blocky blob for them. They aren't going to go back and watch it all and read the marvel comics or anything like that.

My Transformers is dead.

Pete

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Alright guys, help me out here. I keep looking at the Target exclusive Leo Prime when I'm at the store. I know it's not a very good mold, I know the articulation is limited, and I'm fairly certain that I'd be generally disappointed with it. I also know that it'll probably be clearanced down to 4 bucks within a month. But even still the colors, the resculpted head, and my TF drought (haven't been buying movie toys) are compelling me to make a rash decision. Please talk some sense into me! :p

Using my newly developed "Reverse Pete Theory" (do the exact opposite of whatever VFTF1 says), I marched into Target with my head held high and bought myself a Leo Prime. And whattaya know? No guilt! This color scheme totally makes the mold for me, as does the Prime head. And while the articulation is lacking a bit, he's got enough for me (I demand shoulders and hips as a bare minimum, anything beyond that is gravy). Another element of this toy that brings me joy is the clickity-clack from his shoulders and hips. I swear that sound has a quasi-narcotic effect on me. Now I hope they release a white/gold Galaxy Prime so I can combine this guy with him for the stupidly silly looking Lion-Paw-Fist-Of-Doom.

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Using my newly developed "Reverse Pete Theory" (do the exact opposite of whatever VFTF1 says)

I sure would hate it if people sent me money and decided to pack up their Macross collections and send them my way. I wouldn't like that one bit no-siree. In fact, I highly recomend people don't do that. Don't PM me to ask for my paypal in order to send me money and don't even think of PMing me to ask my shipping address because you want to EMS your collections to me.

:) can't blame a guy for tryin' :)

Pete

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A bit late for the G1 discussion... I view the term much like how the original Star Trek series is referred to as TOS, an abbreviation of "The Original Series"(which I have NEVER seen typed out, except when explaining what TOS means), instead of just "Star Trek."

Much like Transformers, just saying Star Trek isn't clear enough in the nest of sequels and spinoffs.

The "Generation 2" marketing implied a convenient name for the original products, giving Transformers fans a more catchy name for their base material than Star Trek.

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I can dig the new game designs, even the Prime. Although it's possible I'm just desperate for new designs after a solid year of seeing nothing but movie designs.

I'd beg for a toy of that new Omega Supreme but I'm not yet done begging for a toy of the Animated Omega Supreme. C'mon Hasbro, Pleeeease? *puppy dog eyes*

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