Transformers Super Thread 8

[eriku]

Nice work Pete! You and I should be hired to plan out the next Bay movie. Here's some of my designs from last year:

Optimus & Megatron (Optimus is probably a little too G1)

Devastator (formed by swarms of robotic termites)

I've come to realize the tired and witless phrase 'nostalgia goggles' that so many Bay fans like to use is just another facet of what turns me off from the whole thing. An unappealing design is an unappealing design regardless of what era it is from. I personally don't like Bay's Transformers because they just simply don't look good to me. There's a lot of G1 designs that don't look good to me, a lot of Beast Wars, Car Robots, GoBots...it's just an aesthetic thing. Regardless of logic, people seem to be trying to start some sort of cultural divide between older fans and newer fans.

Edited May 19, 2009 by eriku

[QuinJester]

Terms like "Bayformers" are as equally divisive as phrases like "Geewunners" or "nostalgia goggles". It's all Transformers, the old stuff is still around for those who like it, the new stuff is here for those who like that. It's not like people are going back and erasing the previous iterations of transformers to make sure only the latest versions exist or anything.

[VFTF1]

Well - I certainly didn't mean to be divisive or anything. All of my bashing is tongue in cheek, if you will. Besides - as I've stated numerous times: on screen, I think the Bayformers look great. What I DON'T like is the toys that Hasbro has made for them - all basically fail and look very little like what we see on screen.

As for aesthetics - Gurren Lagann shows us that it is possible for "classic chunky" style robots to be a hit in our day and age.... but then again - yeah, yeah - it's an anime... on screen real live action is different...

I dunno... Also - in fairness, Bumblebee, Jazz and Prime did resemble their G1 selves pretty fairly. Well - at least Bumblebee's head looks like his toy/Godlbug incarnation. Prime looks fine. Jazz - hard to argue that he doesn't look like Jazz... Ironhide and Ratchet had the most "re-doing" done to them... but then again it could be said that their Marvel comics forms were Tele-Tubbies in disguise...

I guess I just sometimes get annoyed at stereotyping - all the Decepticons look like monsters. Because..."evil" must look ugly and fearsome?

But then Jetfire will become an Autobot - proving that Gremlins can be good?

Well... whatever... I did like the movie... honestly... I saw it with my girlfriend in Dubrovnik in an outdoor theatre in a medditeranian paradise where you can go swimming at 10 pm and the sea is still hot from the sun, the food is great and the town is beautiful... it was such an awesome experience to be sitting in such a luxurious place with the woman I love watching something I'd dreamed of seeing in live-action ever since I was a kid. It was a very very moving experience for me.

But that doesn't change the fact that Bay SUXORZZZ!!

Pete

[Zx31]

I've got no issue with people that dislike the movie-verse, nor do I automatically assume those that don't to be "geewoners". My point, however, was that there is a reason why the new film was so successful, and it's because it appealed to a broad audience. So, yes, there are a lot of people who like the new designs with the majority of those that don't falling into the category of people who grew up with the original series. Nostalgia Goggles isn't ment as an insult, but mearly refers to the styles that we grew up with and became used to. It's just a function of how our minds work that we have fond memories of childhood and the things that influenced it.

Personally, there are many things about the first and new movie that I don't agree with. I came to the conclusion a long time ago, however, that trying to appease the existing fan base is impossible because no matter how cool the new product it, we'll always remember the original being better in some way.

So, go ahead and dislike the movie, it's your perogative. You have the right to your oppinions about what you dislike or like just as much as anyone, but we all need to make it more constructive instead of the constant "geewoner!" and "Bay raped my childhood!" retorts.

[RD Blade]

Nostalgia Goggles isn't ment as an insult, but mearly refers to the styles that we grew up with and became used to.

It may seem like nitpicking, but a short quippy phrase used to describe a rather complex line of thought actually does come off as an insult to some folks. It doesn't strike me as such, but I admittedly did raise an eyebrow.

[eriku]

I came to the conclusion a long time ago, however, that trying to appease the existing fan base is impossible because no matter how cool the new product it, we'll always remember the original being better in some way.

That's still painting with a pretty broad brush. I think the existing fan base has been pretty receptive and appreciative of new designs (and not just in regards to Transformers). Heck, the people who like Bay's designs actually seem to be the majority of the fan base regardless of if they grew up in the 80's or 90's. People are free to like what they like, but for those of us who don't like design X it really rubs us the wrong way to be called out as GEEWUNNERS or as wearing nostalgia goggles. It's entirely possible and even common for people to like or not like things without nostalgia being involved.

Using myself as an example, I love a lot of new designs in anime, cartoons, toys, movies etc, better than the originals and I know I'm not the only one.

[VFTF1]

It may seem like nitpicking, but a short quippy phrase used to describe a rather complex line of thought actually does come off as an insult to some folks. It doesn't strike me as such, but I admittedly did raise an eyebrow.

Well I didn't - at the remark was made towards me - so I don't want other people taking it badly either...

Aaanyways - I would also remind everyone that it's ok to make fun of something you love. You remember people like Raksha who took G1 so seriously that they went on a holy crusade against Beast Wars? Now - I remember when BW came out - I had my doubts - but by the end of the series, was there any G1 fan who didn't love Beast Wars? And judging in retrospect, compared to Armada-Unicron-Energy... can anyone really doubt that the Beast Wars were in many ways the apex of what was possible in terms of story telling and Transformers?

I dunno - I guess I'm just one of these people who are constantly sort of back and forth about stuff...

I guess in my heart I AM a Geewuner - I mean, I sold off all of my Transformers except for G1 and Beast Wars (and nowadays, Beast Wars I view as integral to G1)... I also love the BW II and Neo toys because of the "vanilla" animals and the great diversity of animals. Not so much a fan of Transmetals (too easy to pull off)...

But let's face it - designs aside - Bay at least did a decent job with the story.

But it's tough. It's tough being a long term fan of a franchise that keeps revolutionarily changing... so you walk this tight rope between fodness for what was an the need to be open to what's coming along.

I dunno - I'm so hardcore that I don't even really like Henkei that much. I mean - yeah, I guess I like it...

But what I'd really prefer is if all of the G1 guys were done as Masterpieces. Not as "Binaltechs" - because even those aren't perfectly accurate. I want Masterpieces - of all of them.

Then - the dilema would vanish. I'd have only G1 and Masterpiece...and BW...

As such... I'm tossing and turning - to sell off my animated collection...or not?

Pete

[Zx31]

I suppose my attempt at brief humor was lost considering it made more sense in my head than it does looking at it now. I tried to put an emote in there for clarification but seems to have failed as well.

Oh well. I'm not intending to "start anything" and I even agree with these last few posts. We all share a common interest here, and I don't believe it's anyone's intent to anger another board member.

Speaking of Masterpeice, I had a passing urge to mold a Cosmos head for the Yamato Monster. Not really accurate, but he would be a cooler Autobot version of Astrotrain. No?

Edited May 19, 2009 by Zx31

[promethuem5]

On the TF wiki page, the caption under the picture of Roadfire reads "You'll never own me", and I took that as a challenge. RF's not necessarily the most expensive G! TF by a longshot, but damned if he's not just about the rarest. Right when I was getting into the good stuff, I lost a loose incomplete broken RF for a whole bunch of money on ebay, and then did not see another one for almost a full year. Cut to about two weeks ago, and after a big binge of older super robot stuff on YHJ, I thought to myself 'I should check ebay again for Roadfire...' and there it was: boxed complete with unapplied stickers and some moderate yellowing. I had to have it... fortunately for me, the same seller was unloading a metric ton of good looking G1 stuff including other Japanese items, and it seemed to distract the competition, because I won RF for significantly less than my max bid with little competition in the critical last 5 minutes. The bugger showed up the other day, and I was in heaven... Reprolabels are in the air, and I'm going to look into the hydrogen peroxide method for the yellowing... here's some love shots of the Zone base all setup (missing Sonic Bomber's micromaster... one more elusive piece of the set) and a shot of the three Powered Masters together, and a box pic.

[VFTF1]

Sweet mother of pearl.

That is just TOO fcuking coool!!

I am soooo getting rid of all of my Transformers Animated and Henkei. G1 is just so utterly mind bogglingly awesome!!

Hot dag. I mean - THIS is what's worth getting - no doubt, no doubt. It's a shame Star Convoy looks so butt ugly in pictures... but then again - all the other Zone figures - particularly these three Powered Masters look just amazing. Roadfire looks like pure unadulterated classic Autobot goodness.

Hot dag does that look awesome.

Prometheum5 - between your ace Gundam models and these - I think you've got some of the best taste of any collector I've encountered. Definitely TOP TOP props for this stuff.

Wow. Big time in awe.

Pete

[miles316]

Does any one have any idea what those miniature robot are in the new trailer they posted the other day?

[Zx31]

I think you might need to be more specific.

[kaiotheforsaken]

Does any one have any idea what those miniature robot are in the new trailer they posted the other day?

he's referring to the new short trailers that are out and can be seen on michaelbay.com. There is a shot of these really small, like marble sized, robots. I don't think there has been any hints as to what they are though.

[VFTF1]

Scraplets

Pete

[kaiotheforsaken]

Had to wiki those, but that certainly could be the case.

[nugundamII]

Well - I certainly didn't mean to be divisive or anything. All of my bashing is tongue in cheek, if you will. Besides - as I've stated numerous times: on screen, I think the Bayformers look great. What I DON'T like is the toys that Hasbro has made for them - all basically fail and look very little like what we see on screen.

As for aesthetics - Gurren Lagann shows us that it is possible for "classic chunky" style robots to be a hit in our day and age.... but then again - yeah, yeah - it's an anime... on screen real live action is different...

I dunno... Also - in fairness, Bumblebee, Jazz and Prime did resemble their G1 selves pretty fairly. Well - at least Bumblebee's head looks like his toy/Godlbug incarnation. Prime looks fine. Jazz - hard to argue that he doesn't look like Jazz... Ironhide and Ratchet had the most "re-doing" done to them... but then again it could be said that their Marvel comics forms were Tele-Tubbies in disguise...

I guess I just sometimes get annoyed at stereotyping - all the Decepticons look like monsters. Because..."evil" must look ugly and fearsome?

But then Jetfire will become an Autobot - proving that Gremlins can be good?

Well... whatever... I did like the movie... honestly... I saw it with my girlfriend in Dubrovnik in an outdoor theatre in a medditeranian paradise where you can go swimming at 10 pm and the sea is still hot from the sun, the food is great and the town is beautiful... it was such an awesome experience to be sitting in such a luxurious place with the woman I love watching something I'd dreamed of seeing in live-action ever since I was a kid. It was a very very moving experience for me.

But that doesn't change the fact that Bay SUXORZZZ!!

Pete

haha im a croat!!! Dubrovnik ROCKS!

Go to brela and hvar you love it there too! Split too!!!!

[miles316]

he's referring to the new short trailers that are out and can be seen on michaelbay.com. There is a shot of these really small, like marble sized, robots. I don't think there has been any hints as to what they are though.

I was thinking it could be a insecticon have all of those mini pieces come to gather to form a transformer.

[David Hingtgen]

I think we are getting way too spoilerly here. Keep it in the movie thread please.

[VFTF1]

I think we are getting way too spoilerly here. Keep it in the movie thread please

Yeah. I mean - these pictures are a dead give away for exactly what people are going to see ...

Nice work Pete! You and I should be hired to plan out the next Bay movie. Here's some of my designs from last year:

Optimus & Megatron (Optimus is probably a little too G1)

Devastator (formed by swarms of robotic termites)

Pete

[protostar8]

Well, bad news. Looks like Animated Arcee is getting canned for the moment. The others likely will be too (see front page of tfw2005).

It sucks big time. Hell, that's TWO good looking Arcee toys in the past few years that got scrapped...

[Alpha OTS]

Anyone else notice that movie Devastator has the primary colors that RiD Build King had? I wouldn't be surprised to see yet another release of the Build King mold in the movie line in RiD colors, only with Decepticon labels. I personally love my Target exclusive Build King Devastator:

Although I prefer the crane to be a foot as it makes him less symmetric and more a pile of construction vehicles slapped together. Although the arms are kind of stubby this way, they're far more stable.

That said, I'm also hoping they do the legends combiner movie Devastator in yellow green primary with purple accents.

As for the rest of the movie line. I'm going to be very picky about what I buy. Leader Prime's definitely on the list, and is impossible to resist once you see a pic of him next to the previous Leader Prime as seen here. I'm not liking the new deluxe Bees so far enough that I think they're worth replacing my TF1 Premium Bee or TF1 Screen Battles Bee. The shoulder gun version just doesn't look right in bot mode, and the regular version has no right hand, only a peg to attach the gun. I'm also definitely holding out for some Premium treatments this time. Although the Ice Cream Truck combiner is a must buy. I'm a Twisted Metal nut too so it's impossible to resist.

Of course, all this is subject to change depending on how the movie turns out. I really liked the new trailer that played before Star Trek.

[Letigre]

Well, bad news. Looks like Animated Arcee is getting canned for the moment. The others likely will be too (see front page of tfw2005).

It sucks big time. Hell, that's TWO good looking Arcee toys in the past few years that got scrapped...

It sucks massively...That was one of the only Transformers I wanted for the time being. I guess I don't have to keep money saved for transfomers for the near future. (granted I spent it on the VF-22S already anyway..)

[Zx31]

They are currently canceled, but I'd bet that they make a return as part of the next "Universe" line after the movie line dies down. It doesn't make financial sense to not release them. There were official listing for them, which means the molds are there. It's just not going to release now because movie product is going to flood the market.

[eriku]

See, that's my biggest problem with the movie toys. I'm fine just ignoring stuff I don't like, but it really burns my cheese that Hasbro wants only ROTF toys on the shelf. They always have multiple lines within a brand going so I don't see why they are stopping that now. It's really unfair to fans who don't want the movie toys, and seems like such a waste of good designs. As much as I'd like to hope that Hasbro will bring Animated back later, I just don't believe they will. I think by the time ROTF is in the rear-view mirror Hasbro will want something new and different, and regardless of Animated's popularity they'll probably want to go with something that hasn't been seen before.

[Zx31]

It's not Hasbro that only wants one line on the shelf. The retailers sold so much in movie merchandise that they aren't ordering non-movie toys. This is why we are getting the gestalts in movie packaging instead of Universe packaging as originally intended. This is the main reason the last animated waves were rushed or put on hiatus as well as why some of the last Universe waves were hard to find. Places like Walmart and Target took the shelf space that was dedicated to these toys and re-assigned it to lines that were making them more money. Hasbro can't push a product that isn't being ordered. This is why I suspect that after the movie hype dies off and the retailers start to see a drop in movie toy sales, we will see the return of the Universe line with the canceled animated figures in addition to any line that Hasbro has planned for Post-Movie.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Zx31

[David Hingtgen]

I am so buying Leader Jetfire. He's just gigantic in jet mode. (and honestly, everyone on this forum likes big transforming jet toys)

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I am so buying Leader Jetfire. He's just gigantic in jet mode. (and honestly, everyone on this forum likes big transforming jet toys)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX5E-pjPV-o...player_embedded

It's the most unique leader figure, the size, as you mentioned, is gigantic, I like the Blackbird, and he combines with Prime. From the ROTF comic adaptation, he's not a bad character, definitely old; a likeable character to me. So I want to buy this figure too.

Now I wonder just how big leader Starscream will be.....I have a feeling that voyager Starscream might be more in scale with Jetfire than the leader version.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

BTW just got the measurement info, Jetfire in plane mode is:

18" Long, and 10" wide!

Edited May 23, 2009 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

[David Hingtgen]

18in? Honestly figured bigger than that.

[Black Valkyrie]

I am so buying Leader Jetfire. He's just gigantic in jet mode. (and honestly, everyone on this forum likes big transforming jet toys)

Biiiiiiiigggggggggg Toooyyyyyyyyyyy yum yum.

[Grand Admiral]

I am so buying Leader Jetfire. He's just gigantic in jet mode. (and honestly, everyone on this forum likes big transforming jet toys)

I do love transforming jet toys, but one of my big peeves is gobs of robot parts hanging out the bottom of the jet. I'm willing to forgive a little bit of that, but this looks pretty ridiculous.

[David Hingtgen]

I'm willing to forgive most of it, due to being an SR-71. There's pretty much no way to make a "minimal kibble" transforming SR-71, due to the SR-71 being all area, with no internal volume:

The only way it could ever work is to basically be a combiner of itself---some parts in each nacelle, and the head in the cockpit, then split off those 3 major sections, combine them into a small bot, then try to fold up a bunch of leftover black panels into a backpack. (or somehow have all wing and chine bits separate into individual plates and re-attach to form armor plating around the limbs--cool, but impractical)

(admittedly, the Jetfire toy has nothing in its nacelles AFAIK, and it could have had SOME robot parts stored in them, and not under the belly----could have reduced the kibble at least a bit) Most obvious choice are his thighs--they are his engines, so if the engines were in the nacelles, they wouldn't be hanging under the tailcone in jet mode. Then you could move a bit of the "side" kibble back where they were, and so on.

[miles316]

Will we get to see Jetfire flying in his vehicle mode.

[David Hingtgen]

What would the alternative be? Taxiing at high speed in the next lane over from Prime and Bumblebee?

[dizman]

Ehh he's not really that great, it's nice that somebody finally did a transforming SR-71 but the robot mode is just so.... craptastic. Hopefully leader starscream won't be so kibbly but I doubt they can avoid it.