YF-24: AM I THE ONLY ONE SEEING THIS

[d3v]

It's not that the YF-24 is bad, it's that the VF-25 is so much better. Generally, production models are pretty comparable to prototypes---or often worse due to trying to cut costs/features for mass production. To be notably superior is very rare---and they didn't plan for that.

Of course you also have to factor in that the YF-24 isn't the direct prototype for the VF-25. The fact that the 5 was independently developed form the 4 seems to indicate that they weren't made by the same companies (the YF-24's probably Shinsei).

[David Hingtgen]

Watching the GG version of Ep 15 for the first time, I get the impression that LAI developed the VF-25 from the "whoever" YF-24, and it's unique to the Frontier fleet. And that "someone else" developed the 27 from the 24, etc.

So that in essence, multiple fleets have planes derived from the 24, but all are variations, and some are more like the 24 than others, etc, and some might even have a production VF-24. Whoever made the 27 just guessed what the 25 would be like, but since all 24-derivatives are unique, they really didn't know how the 25 would be---but it was a surprisingly good variation, better than the assumed VF-24+, VF-26, VF-28 etc in other fleets.

Of course, that's reading into and assuming way too much.

[d3v]

I'm still wondering if the VF-27 really is also derived from the YF-24 seeing as there's no mention of it whatsoever in the series and that Galaxy Anonymous was surprised at the VF-35's performance. For all we know, the 27 is a totally different airframe that just copies the YF-24's transformation (possibly due to production not having enough time to do a completely new VF model).

[VF-25 Messiah]

I'm still wondering if the VF-27 really is also derived from the YF-24 seeing as there's no mention of it whatsoever in the series and that Galaxy Anonymous was surprised at the VF-35's performance. For all we know, the 27 is a totally different airframe that just copies the YF-24's transformation (possibly due to production not having enough time to do a completely new VF model).

The new stats for the VF-27 confirms that it was.

Edited September 18, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[d3v]

The new stats for the VF-27 confirms that it was.

Holy cow! Stats are out! Quick, someone post a link quick.

I wonder now if Galaxy thought that by basing the 27 on the 24, they thought others would underestimate it, only for them to fall for their own trick and underestimate the 25.

[RedWolf]

Watching the GG version of Ep 15 for the first time, I get the impression that LAI developed the VF-25 from the "whoever" YF-24, and it's unique to the Frontier fleet. And that "someone else" developed the 27 from the 24, etc.

So that in essence, multiple fleets have planes derived from the 24, but all are variations, and some are more like the 24 than others, etc, and some might even have a production VF-24. Whoever made the 27 just guessed what the 25 would be like, but since all 24-derivatives are unique, they really didn't know how the 25 would be---but it was a surprisingly good variation, better than the assumed VF-24+, VF-26, VF-28 etc in other fleets.

Of course, that's reading into and assuming way too much.

YF-24 was designed by Shinsei Industry, LAI and Macross Galaxy bought a license to develop their own versions of it.

Thanks to sketchley

Stats as per the article:

VF-25

Development: Shinsei Industry/ Macross Frontier Arsenal Original Development/ LAI Company technology [technological] support based it on the YF-24 Evolution [evolution from the YF-24].

Overall Length: 18.72 m (fighter configuration)

Empty Weight: 8,450 Kg

Engine: Shinsei Industry/ P&W/ RR made FF-3001A Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engine (in space [the void of space], maximum thrust of 1,620 KN) x2

High manueverability thruster: P&W HMM-9

Maximum atmospheric speed: M 5.0+ ([at] 10,000 m, on account of the fuselage heat-resistance boundary. It is possible to reach satellite orbit with the normal specification(s))

Base weapons: 12.7 mm coaxial beam gun (Mauler ROV-217C) x1 (set in the monitor head), choice of either 25 mm high-speed machine gun [cannon] (Remmington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2, 58 mm Gattling gun pod (Howard GU-17A). The 25 mm machine gun [cannon] and gun pod are later refit with the anti-Vajra MDE warhead specification.

ISC (Inertia Store Converter): Shinsei Industry Macross Frontier Asenal / LAI Company self-development specification ISC/TO21

Special: possible to equip with Super Pack or Armoured Pack

Can cope with a fold booster.

VF-27

Development: Original Development by the Macross Galaxy Variable Fighter Development Arsenal based on the YF-24 Evolution [evolution from the YF-24].

Overall Length: 18.8 m (fighter configuration)

Empty Weight: 12,080 Kg

Engine: Shinchuushuu/ P&W/ RR/ MG made FF-3011/ C Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engine (in space [the void of space], maximum thrust of 1,377 KN) x4

High manueverability thruster: P&W HMM-9

Maximum atmospheric speed: M 5.2+ ([at] 10,000 m, on account of the fuselage heat-resistance boundary. Possible to do M9+ for brief periods by protecting the fuselage with the pin-point barrier and energy conversion armour. It is possible to reach satellite orbit with the normal specification(s))

Base weapons: 20 mm beam gun (ROV-20) x1, choice of either (Rammington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2. 35 mm heavy beam machine gun [cannon] (Sentinel HBC/HS-35B) x2, BGP-01 (Greek Symbol for Beta) Beam Gun pod / Beam grenade x1, Internal-type micro-missile launcher (Bifors BML-04B) x4. The 25 mm high-speed machine gun [cannon] and micro-missile warheads are later refit with the anti-Vajra MDE warhead specification. The beam gunpod is refit to MDE particle beam specifications.

ISC: MG development IVC/GC 01 (Greek symbol for gamma)

Can cope with a super fold booster.

If I'm right the YF-24 is another piece of work of Yang Neuman that tends to kill or maim test pilots.

If Isamu already retired or NUNS took him off test piloting. You have to admit he is the soldier version of Basara.

[d3v]

Hmm, I'm kinda annoyed that the numbers presented don't give anything conclusive about their performance versus the AVF planes. The only thing we can say conclusively is that the engines used are newer (Shinsei/P&W/RR FF-3011As and P&W HMM-9s versus FF-2550s and HMM-7s). The listed speeds are even the same which is really a non-issue since most dogfights occur in high-subsonic speeds to transonic speeds.

[badboy00z]

I'm interested in the max rate of climb at sea level and maximum speed.

What does the "Y" stand for in "YF-XX "??

Edited September 18, 2008 by badboy00z

[RedWolf]

What does the "Y" stand for in "YF-XX "??

Just copying real world prototype fighter designations.

[badboy00z]

So it doesn't stand for anything? So does "VF-XX" stand for Variable Fighter?

[RedWolf]

So it doesn't stand for anything? So does "VF-XX" stand for Variable Fighter?

Yup, for a time the prototypes had the VF-X designation like the VF-X-11 the prototypes of the VF-11 flown by Max and Millia.

[d3v]

After plus, it seems SK and co. adopted a simplified version of the U.S. Tri-Service aircraft designation system.

[Vic Mancini]

Just copying real world prototype fighter designations.

To this day, I still don't know why they didn't call them the YVF-19 and YVF-21.

That would make a lot more sense than just YF-19 and YF-21.

[anime52k8]

To this day, I still don't know why they didn't call them the YVF-19 and YVF-21.

That would make a lot more sense than just YF-19 and YF-21.

Because having three letters doesn't sound as good as two

Technically they should be YVF if they were to accurately fallow the tri-service designation system. Then again if they were to actually fallow that designation system correctly, then it should be YFV and all valks would actually be FV-X's since the V indicates vehicle type (other than fixed wing) which should come last. Proper letter order goes status prefix (Y, X, N etc.); basic mission (A, F, B etc.); and finally vehicle type (H, V, Q).

also there's the tendency to skip series letters (the letter after the number) like going from A to d then to J then to S

[Vic Mancini]

Because having three letters doesn't sound as good as two

What? Since when?

All kinds of auto manufacturers use 3 letter designations for their car and motorcycle models, and it's a highly competative business where every brand and marketing edge is calculated and exploited. I've never heard of any trends indicating three letter designations being passed over for two letter designations just to avoid the third letter . Does that mean one letter is better than two, then? Why not just Y-19 and Y-21 then? Or are two letter designations the magic number?

For some reason your answer annoys me.

YVF sounds better to me, and more importantly makes more sense.

[Sumdumgai]

Probably because I'm used to hearing/reading YF//VF, two letter designations sounds right, and three letter sounds off. Plus two letter is easier to remember, as there's one less thing to not forget.

[Vic Mancini]

Probably because I'm used to hearing/reading YF//VF, two letter designations sounds right, and three letter sounds off.

Just curious...

Do the real world designations for the YF-22 and YF-23 sound off to you? ...Since most real world in service fighters use a single letter designation and you're used to hearing one letter? Ie: F-18, F-22, etc... ?

Plus two letter is easier to remember, as there's one less thing to not forget.

So why weren't things shortened to one letter then, when the series was being created?

If remembering letters was actually a concern they could have shortened it to a one letter designation and just called it a V-1 Valkyrie instead of a VF-1 Valkyrie. I don't think remembering a lot of letters was the reason.

If two letters is better than three, then surely one letter is better than two.

I don't buy this "less letters sounds better" argument.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Vic Mancini

[Gubaba]

I don't buy this "less letters sounds better" argument.

No, t's tru. u c, fwr lttrs rly dz wrk bttr. e-z 2 read, e-z to say.

No, of course you're right. It's a silly argument. And anyway, all the destroid designations are much longer, aren't they?

[l_e_m]

Hmm, I'm kinda annoyed that the numbers presented don't give anything conclusive about their performance versus the AVF planes. The only thing we can say conclusively is that the engines used are newer (Shinsei/P&W/RR FF-3011As and P&W HMM-9s versus FF-2550s and HMM-7s). The listed speeds are even the same which is really a non-issue since most dogfights occur in high-subsonic speeds to transonic speeds.

Maximum thrust output for a base VF-25A in space exceeds the VF-19S by more than two times.

Speed matters in this context. Having a higher thrust ratio will give you quicker bursts in Gerwalk and Battroid not available to other VFs.

If the VF-171EX can compete with the VF-25/VF-27, then its performance would have to exceed any of the Macross Plus/Macross 7 AVFs.

I don't see how the VF-171EX couldn't, but this is just supposition on my part.

[anime52k8]

No, t's tru. u c, fwr lttrs rly dz wrk bttr. e-z 2 read, e-z to say.

No, of course you're right. It's a silly argument. And anyway, all the destroid designations are much longer, aren't they?

and can you remember the all the designations they gave to each destroid off the top of your head? I can't but I remember all the VF designations.

YF-21 frankly has a better ring to it then YVF-21 (IMO) and sounds more concurent to real world aircraft designations (like YF-22 and YF-23) also YF-21 sticks with you better than say, SDR-04 Mk XII.

[d3v]

Because having three letters doesn't sound as good as two

Technically they should be YVF if they were to accurately fallow the tri-service designation system. Then again if they were to actually fallow that designation system correctly, then it should be YFV and all valks would actually be FV-X's since the V indicates vehicle type (other than fixed wing) which should come last. Proper letter order goes status prefix (Y, X, N etc.); basic mission (A, F, B etc.); and finally vehicle type (H, V, Q).

also there's the tendency to skip series letters (the letter after the number) like going from A to d then to J then to S

Actually, if the real tri-service were followed they would be the YFV-19 and YFV-21, and all valks would be FV-xx.

Having the V in front as the modified mission code would designate them as staff transports.

Edited September 21, 2008 by d3v

[Gubaba]

and can you remember the all the designations they gave to each destroid off the top of your head? I can't but I remember all the VF designations.

YF-21 frankly has a better ring to it then YVF-21 (IMO) and sounds more concurent to real world aircraft designations (like YF-22 and YF-23) also YF-21 sticks with you better than say, SDR-04 Mk XII.

Don't they all start MBR except the Monster (which is, I think, HWR...?).

For me, it's not the extra letter that gives me trouble, it's all the numbers that come after; SDF-1 is easy to remember, SDF-27956322748 wouldn't be.

(I can't believe I'm actually arguing about this... )

[Sumdumgai]

Just curious...

Do the real world designations for the YF-22 and YF-23 sound off to you? ...Since most real world in service fighters use a single letter designation and you're used to hearing one letter? Ie: F-18, F-22, etc... ?

Nope the valkyrie designations don't really sound off, because I didn't pay attention to real world fighter craft designations until after I got into Macross.

So why weren't things shortened to one letter then, when the series was being created?

If remembering letters was actually a concern they could have shortened it to a one letter designation and just called it a V-1 Valkyrie instead of a VF-1 Valkyrie. I don't think remembering a lot of letters was the reason.

If two letters is better than three, then surely one letter is better than two.

I don't buy this "less letters sounds better" argument.

Well things weren't shortened because they weren't. I'm not arguing that it should have been one way or another. All I was saying was that two letters sounds better than three for me, because I'm used to it (not counting the A/B/C/D/F/J/S designations).

There were the VF-X-1, and VF-X-11 for designations. So now that I think about it some more, three letter designations don't sound that odd. I guess it's just that I'm already used to "YF" meaning prototype because of Macross Plus, which is my baseline for Macross. VF-X-# came later for me, which I did find weird at the time but have since grown used to. I still kind of have it in my head that pre-Macross Plus in the Macross timeline, prototypes go by the VF-X-# designation, and Macross Plus and after is the YF-# designation.

I want to see the YF-24 in battroid. I like those wings on it.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Sumdumgai

[sketchley]

MBR (Main Battle Robot), ADR (Air Defence Robot), SDR (Space Defence Robot), & HWR (Heavy Weight Robot).

See the Hobby Handbook for details, alternative models, and the Earth Trekkers.

Don't they all start MBR except the Monster (which is, I think, HWR...?).

[Vic Mancini]

SDF-1 is easy to remember,

Boosh! Nice example.

I rest my case.

[hobbes221]

The only one that has really sounded wrong to me is RVF, I feel that it should be VRF.

[RedWolf]

The only one that has really sounded wrong to me is RVF, I feel that it should be VRF.

RVF- Recon Variable Fighter

[anime52k8]

RVF- Recon Variable Fighter

should be VE-25 IMO, so it matches with the elint seeker. (and it's not like the F is even aplicable since luca does absolutely nothing.)

Edited September 25, 2008 by anime52k8

[d3v]

The only one that has really sounded wrong to me is RVF, I feel that it should be VRF.

RVF- Recon Variable Fighter

Technically, the correct tri-service designation for that would be RFV.

Modified mission= Reconnaisance

Basic mission=Fighter

Vehcile type=Variable

[RedWolf]

should be VE-25 IMO, so it matches with the elint seeker. (and it's not like the F is even aplicable since luca does absolutely nothing.)

You do realize that there are 2 elint variants of the VF-1 Valkyrie?

The VEFR-1 Valkyrie and the VE-1 Valkyrie. The former appeared in SDF Macross TV while the later was used in DYRL.

Makes me wonder if the VE-1 is canon.

With the VF-17 the radome is a optional equipment like super packs.

The VF-171 strikes me among the same adaptibility of the former. Only it gets its own designation RVF-171.

The same for the RVF-171EX.

But the RVF-25 is a specific elint variant of the VF-25.

[anime52k8]

You do realize that there are 2 elint variants of the VF-1 Valkyrie?

The VEFR-1 Valkyrie and the VE-1 Valkyrie. The former appeared in SDF Macross TV while the later was used in DYRL.

Makes me wonder if the VE-1 is canon.

With the VF-17 the radome is a optional equipment like super packs.

The VF-171 strikes me among the same adaptibility of the former. Only it gets its own designation RVF-171.

The same for the RVF-171EX.

But the RVF-25 is a specific elint variant of the VF-25.

was the funny chinese even actualy shown in SDFM?

and I've always been under the impression that SK and co. retconed most of the ship and mech designs so all the DYRL stuff is offical.

[RedWolf]

was the funny chinese even actualy shown in SDFM?

and I've always been under the impression that SK and co. retconed most of the ship and mech designs so all the DYRL stuff is offical.

Episode 27 fighter mode when the Minmay Attack fleet is being prepared.

The DYRL design for the Macross also shown in Macross Plus is a refit with ARMD ships.

They removed the broken Prometheus and the Daedalus. Rebuilding the main gun bow which disintegrated.