Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread III *Read 1st Post*

[azrael]

Welcome to the Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread

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• Please limit your discussion of mecha and technology to this thread. This thread is not for discussing individual episodes or the story. Do not cross post.
• Please limit your discussion to mecha and technology seen in Macross F.
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• This thread contains spoilers about mecha. Don't say we didn't warn you.

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Last post:

The design of the Macross Galaxy is likely just a way to distinguish it from the Macross Frontier fleet. It's a radically different design, different color and even the escort ships are orange. It's just a visual cue, much in the same way Kawamori wanted the VF-171 as the cannon fodder fighter so it was very distinguishable from the VF-25 hero fighter.

[sketchley]

I partially agree that the fleet has a different design to differentiate it (a la the Zentraedi motif of the M5 fleet in M7.) However, as it's radically different, I think it is also different as it looks like it may become the opposing enemy fleet of the series. Is it just me, or does the Macross Galaxy fleet appear to have more effort put into ship designs than the Vajra ships? Both in detail, and quantity of ship designs, that is.

[RedWolf]

Macross Galaxy

Well in Animesuki's Macross Mecha, Weapons and Technology thread it has been suggested that the NMC carrier is on top.

[The_WOZ]

Yes, in fact there seems to be what ressembles an NMC's bridge on top of Galaxy.

Also the first screenshot reminded me of this post I made back in December.

[Impreszive]

I got a sneaking suspicion that the "attack" on Galaxy may have been faked....somewhat. I just can't see them fixing Galaxy that fast, considering the damage it looks like it took.

Nah. Just a random thought.

[Mr March]

I partially agree that the fleet has a different design to differentiate it (a la the Zentraedi motif of the M5 fleet in M7.)

Well that's certainly encouraging

The Vajra ships likely feel familiar because of the bow-firing main guns and the split hull, much in the same way that as cool as the Macross Quarter may be, it's also familiar with the hull-splitting main gun similar to the original SDF-1 Macross.

For my part, I've few complaints about the ship design thus far in Macross Frontier. I like the Macross Frontier fleet designs, the Vajra and the Macross Galaxy designs. The only Macross warship designs I really disliked were most of the Varauta ships in Macross 7, but the UNS ships were all cool.

I tell you one thing I really like about the CGI warships in Macross Frontier; when the bow splits open on most of the ships there's a real sense of mass/weight to the gun that never came across in the older animated shows, with the possible exception of DYRL. The Vajra cannons feel really menacing when they open up.

[Morpheus]

That would be interesting if Galaxy NMC is sitting on top of it. Need higher resolution to see it more clearly since I can only recognized the bridge.

[Zinjo]

That would be interesting if Galaxy NMC is sitting on top of it. Need higher resolution to see it more clearly since I can only recognized the bridge.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing...

Unfortunately the series will be over by the time we get a BD version of the episode...

[RedWolf]

I've compared this fighter to VF-4 Lightning before but if it is a a cannon fodder Galaxy Valkyrie perhaps it is closer to the VF-2SS of the non-canon Macross II OVA.

VF-2SS

[sketchley]

Doubtful. Perhaps it's a production VF-24?

[azrael]

Doubtful. Perhaps it's a production VF-24?

I prefer the simple explanation. It's just a regular fighter-craft with a fold booster on it...

Really, people love to fish for answers that aren't there.

[Alastar]

I prefer the simple explanation. It's just a regular fighter-craft with a fold booster on it...

Really, people love to fish for answers that aren't there.

Your half right about ur reply. But you can see there are singularities between the two.

Is it the VF-2SS no...But it is based on the design from the look of it.

[sketchley]

Here fishy, fishy, fishy.

Definitely not the VF-2SS. For the simple reason that it's from a non-studio nue anime, and has been cut from the timeline.

[Master Dex]

Doubtful. Perhaps it's a production VF-24?

No, doesn't look like the YF-24 at all based on the schematic from ep.15. I think Azrael is right, it is a non-variable fighter that we weren't meant to dwell on... but because of who we are we did.

[RedWolf]

I'm saying transfomation scheme may be similar.

Then again they use the same torso as the VF-25 and VF-27.

[Morpheus]

I think we all are poisoned to think that all the fighter in Macross is transformable

[Kronnang Dunn]

Here fishy, fishy, fishy.

Definitely not the VF-2SS. For the simple reason that it's from a non-studio nue anime, and has been cut from the timeline.

...but not from the Macross franchise...

From a design point of view is veeery similar to the VF-2SS (without the canards), even more than the VF-4 and the VF-24. Perhaps it was an homage of sorts...

Edited August 1, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[RedWolf]

The VF-25S without Armor Pack.

Antares Squadron Battroid mode.

The green VF-27 doesn't appear to be different from Brera's except color.

Edited August 1, 2008 by RedWolf

[nugundam93]

^^^ externally, i agree. though brera's 27 might be packing more thrust or something.

and the 25's barrier was nice, though not surprising. we did see pinpoint barriers way back on both the YF-19 and YF-21 so they should have improved on it by the time of frontier.

[DarkReaper]

As the Yakk Deculture Blue Ray raws are out, here is a slightly bigger pic of the NMC25.

[Fade Rathnik]

I don't know if this has been brought up in previous tech threads but I am really starting to think that reaction weapons emit a spherical burst of the same energy as the SD beam weapons. Like the warhead generates a slowly decaying field that contains the Plasma/ether/antimatter that the beam contains. Perhaps at a lower intensity because it essential lingers and burns, this would technically make the blast survivable if the target is resistant to anything short of an SD cannon blast.

[Fade Rathnik]

I had a odd idea, the 25 is in deployment testing. Perhaps the PPB system for that fighter is only now becoming available. Or its always been there as its use could have been subtle, in ep 7 Alto takes a lot of hits but the biggest eyebrow raiser was when the squid was trying to crush his cockpit there was a glow almost like a field surrounding his cockpit.

[NoNameSt11]

You know, I just realized that we haven't seen the Vajra use those anti-missile defenses from episode 1 again. I thought they were kinda cool.

[VF-25 Messiah]

You know, I just realized that we haven't seen the Vajra use those anti-missile defenses from episode 1 again. I thought they were kinda cool.

Maybe they grew obsolete once they started using anti-ECA ammo and whatnot? The missile guidance won't be fooled anymore so they stopped using them?

Though I have a nagging feeling the animators just forgot about them after episode 1...

[Final Vegeta]

You know, I just realized that we haven't seen the Vajra use those anti-missile defenses from episode 1 again. I thought they were kinda cool.

I think those are not the anti-missile defenses you believe, meaning that they actually destroy missiles. They are probably simple chaff. Switching to another kind of guidance system (ie: infrared) should have made them useless.

FV

[Xeros]

That schematic shows clearly the existence of battle 25, but I like to see the entire thing xD

[Final Vegeta]

I had a odd idea, the 25 is in deployment testing. Perhaps the PPB system for that fighter is only now becoming available. Or its always been there as its use could have been subtle, in ep 7 Alto takes a lot of hits but the biggest eyebrow raiser was when the squid was trying to crush his cockpit there was a glow almost like a field surrounding his cockpit.

I checked, but I think these are just statics when some electronic thing is damaged. Check when a Vajra hit the right arm instead, there is some kind of flat yellow explosion which maybe was actually meant to be the force field.

Episode 13 also is interesting: Brera hits a yellow Vajra and the beam is deflected by some kind of red field (it's the hit that strikes the queen). Possibly is kind of technology related to ECA that Vajra copied.

FV

[Mr March]

I don't know if this has been brought up in previous tech threads but I am really starting to think that reaction weapons emit a spherical burst of the same energy as the SD beam weapons. Like the warhead generates a slowly decaying field that contains the Plasma/ether/antimatter that the beam contains. Perhaps at a lower intensity because it essential lingers and burns, this would technically make the blast survivable if the target is resistant to anything short of an SD cannon blast.

Actually, uncontrolled explosive weapons are much less dangerous than you might think.

Due to the nature of an uncontrolled explosion, any potential target will only ever experience a maximum of half the total destructive effect of a reaction bomb, since one half of the explosion will always be exploding away from the target. Also, because most targets are small, they'd experience a much smaller fraction of that half of the explosive effect that is directed their way. Also, the destructive force of an explosion diminishes dramatically the further the target is from the center of the detonation. Lastly, in space there is no shock wave effect from a high energy detonation because there is no atmosphere; so any destructive force must be generated by the bomb itself.

This is why the Destroid Monster had armor that was described as thick enough to survive a near hit from a reaction weapon. It's also why directed-energy weapons, bullets and missiles can be so deadly even though they aren't nearly as powerful as a reaction bomb; because they are projecting energy in a much more tightly focused attack that only needs to penetrate a far smaller surface area to be effective.

Now, the official literature does state that Reaction Technology is far more powerful than nuclear reactions. The most powerful nuclear bomb ever conceived was 100 megatons. But even if we assume Reaction bombs are somewhere between two to ten times the destructive yield of the best nuclear bomb, the physics of an uncontrolled explosion still remain the same. Small targets like fighter craft flying sufficiently far enough away from the center point of a reaction bomb blast could suffer much less than 1% of the explosive yield of a reaction bomb. Bring OverTechnology like Energy Converting Armor into the equation and it becomes much easier to survive near hits from reaction bombs.

As for how reaction bombs work, I've no doubt super dimension energy is involved, as it seems to be in virtually all OverTechnologies. Super dimension eneryg is likely what makes reaction bombs much more destructive than nuclear blasts.

[Fade Rathnik]

Actually, uncontrolled explosive weapons are much less dangerous than you might think.

Due to the nature of an uncontrolled explosion, any potential target will only ever experience a maximum of half the total destructive effect of a reaction bomb, since one half of the explosion will always be exploding away from the target. Also, because most targets are small, they'd experience a much smaller fraction of that half of the explosive effect that is directed their way. Also, the destructive force of an explosion diminishes dramatically the further the target is from the center of the detonation. Lastly, in space there is no shock wave effect from a high energy detonation because there is no atmosphere; so any destructive force must be generated by the bomb itself.

I know this quite well, I also know that much of the destructive force from a nuclear bomb is from said bomb reacting to the atmosphere. My thought is that a reaction bomb is not a fuel burning explosive in the traditional sense and that it is more or less a self contained omni-directional SD discharge in a contained field. So like its the same type of field generator as one of the cannons only it releases its energy differently.

Because a nuke would more or less just be a small pop in space with no atmosphere to react to, the explosion only has what little mass is around it to react with. With reaction weapons there is a lingering orb of destruction that just sits there and burns for a few seconds.

Ok granted as I write this something occurred to me. You could use a nuke core and other fusion stages as the fuel for the explosion itself but instead of explosives to trigger the reaction you could use a SD field to crush the core causing the 'Reaction' and contain it and a field that expands to a certain size. This could create an opportunity for such a device to consume all its fuel making it many times more powerful. This is of course if you could create such a field, but it would change it to being a temporarily controlled explosion.

[Sumdumgai]

Err, in Macross Zero Shin says that the the radiation from the reaction warheads would reach the Mayan islands. And he uses the same word as in Macross Frontier.

When was it stated that reaction weaponry doesn't have radiation? I remember reading that they called it "reaction weaponry" so as to avoid calling it "nuclear weaponry", which was kind of taboo to have the good guys use.

[sketchley]

As great as the theory is (reaction bombs open a doorway to superdimension space), the creators of Macross have already defined exactly what a reaction weapon is.

See: http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Reaction_Weapon

[sketchley]

Err, in Macross Zero Shin says that the the radiation from the reaction warheads would reach the Mayan islands. And he uses the same word as in Macross Frontier.

Yes. In MF, every time a reaction warhead detonates (as opposed to the carrying missile being shot down), a big yellow "no fly zone" warning is displayed.

[Morpheus]

Err, in Macross Zero Shin says that the the radiation from the reaction warheads would reach the Mayan islands. And he uses the same word as in Macross Frontier.

When was it stated that reaction weaponry doesn't have radiation? I remember reading that they called it "reaction weaponry" so as to avoid calling it "nuclear weaponry", which was kind of taboo to have the good guys use.

I think that's because the reaction weapon was detonated in atmosphere, which mean shockwaves and heat from the blast (which are more devastating). There also some radiation fall out from the remaining of the blast. Another explanation is the reaction warheads at that time has not been perfected yet hence the rediation.

[Sumdumgai]

I think that's because the reaction weapon was detonated in atmosphere, which mean shockwaves and heat from the blast (which are more devastating). There also some radiation fall out from the remaining of the blast. Another explanation is the reaction warheads at that time has not been perfected yet hence the rediation.

Yeah, but when was it ever mentioned that reaction warheads don't give off radiation post-2011 (as in after Macross Zero in the Macross timeline)? It sure seems like they're more powerful nuclear weapons, especially after reading the compendium entry.

[sketchley]

I'll add that both the detonation and the physical size of the warhead have increased since we last saw them in a Macross anime.