Newbie Questions on Macross

[sketchley]

Or since they'd never seen any physical remains or pictures of the former crew, (...)

<Nods>. True. From circumstancial evidence it was clear they were giant humanoids, but little else. Therefore, in context, Roy's shock makes sense (I knew they were giant humanoid aliens, but aliens that look exactly like us? WTF!)

Of course, given the more alien look of the Zentraadi, couple with more uses of Zentraadi cybernetics, one wonders if Roy would have the same reaction in the "Macross: The First" version.

[JB0]

On the matter of databases and such, I wonder now if either of the 'superpowers' (Supervision Army / Zentradi) use doctors or any other medical technologies. If they can't repair the equipment, what's to say they can repair the people?

I would actually assume the zentradi DON'T have much in the way of medical technology.

Why bother, when you can pop the top on a clone chamber and send a fresh troop to the front immediately instead of waiting for the injured guy to heal?

[Boxer]

I would actually assume the zentradi DON'T have much in the way of medical technology.

Why bother, when you can pop the top on a clone chamber and send a fresh troop to the front immediately instead of waiting for the injured guy to heal?

That would be my presumption as well, though I thought it was worth speculating about. They would have needed some way to analyze/examine the miclones though. Would they have left that up to machines, or would the Protoculture have bread specialists to do the job? Or would that be another task of the fleet archivist(s)?

Does anyone have an answer on that ASS-1 drawing? Is it official Macross or where does it come from?

[sketchley]

I would actually assume the zentradi DON'T have much in the way of medical technology.

Why bother, when you can pop the top on a clone chamber and send a fresh troop to the front immediately instead of waiting for the injured guy to heal?

This is an interesting point. It's true that with mass cloning, growing a replacement soldier is quite easy.

However, we don't know cloning times (is it the time it takes to go from macron to micron size? Or is it on the scale of years, as depicted in SW2?)

MC also states that though Factory Satellites dedicated to cloning exists, they are less common than the ones dedicated to manufacturing machines.

On top of all that, we see the existence of medical technology: cybernetics. DYRL presents a more advanced version, and SDFM, especially with Buritai, whp appears to have a metal plate that's simply bolted on.

So, the implications are that medical technology exists and is used, especially the heigher a soldier's rank and how much knowledge/experience they have. But on the other hand, life is still cheap.

Edited August 5, 2010 by sketchley

[frothymug]

Boxer, I would have to say that it is official. It does look like Miyatake Kazutaka's art style and is in line with his other Zentraedi ship designs. I haven't seen any clear evidence of its officiality, though. It's just my opinion.

[azrael]

Does anyone have an answer on that ASS-1 drawing? Is it official Macross or where does it come from?

I'll check the Chronicle if they appear in there. I thought I saw the lineart in one of the "Extra Report" boxes. If not, I would classify it as "closest representation" of it considering the outer hull was nicely seared.

[falks]

Being this my second post and that I'm new...

I've been looking and reading on all the info you guys have about the storie and historie of macross, I found 3 maps that sketchley has on is reference page and was wondering if all the locations on the maps were canon and precise?

[Robelwell202]

Being this my second post and that I'm new...

I've been looking and reading on all the info you guys have about the storie and historie of macross, I found 3 maps that sketchley has on is reference page and was wondering if all the locations on the maps were canon and precise?

Being they're on Sketchley's site, he'd be the best to answer that question. Without a link for reference, it's hard to say...

[falks]

Being they're on Sketchley's site, he'd be the best to answer that question. Without a link for reference, it's hard to say...

Sorry forgot about the link

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Locations/Milkyway/MilkyWay-MapZoom.jpg

I was asking about this because of a bit of nostalgia I guess, we're teased in frontier about the Minmei thing and the finding of the remains of the 117th survey fleet, even the homeworld of the Vajra is close to the last (from what I see in the map) know location of the megaroad-01, so thus the question.

[Gubaba]

Sorry forgot about the link

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Locations/Milkyway/MilkyWay-MapZoom.jpg

I was asking about this because of a bit of nostalgia I guess, we're teased in frontier about the Minmei thing and the finding of the remains of the 117th survey fleet, even the homeworld of the Vajra is close to the last (from what I see in the map) know location of the megaroad-01, so thus the question.

If it shows the location of the Megaroad-01, then no, it's not canon. No one knows where that ship is. Sorry.

[sketchley]

Sorry forgot about the link

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Locations/Milkyway/MilkyWay-MapZoom.jpg

I was asking about this because of a bit of nostalgia I guess, we're teased in frontier about the Minmei thing and the finding of the remains of the 117th survey fleet, even the homeworld of the Vajra is close to the last (from what I see in the map) know location of the megaroad-01, so thus the question.

If the things on it are green, then they are canon in the sense of being mentioned officially in-universe.

That said, the locations are speculation. The locations are also the "last known location" as well.

The map is also useless without context. Here's the context: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Locations/Locations.htm#slref

Edited August 6, 2010 by sketchley

[Boxer]

Zentraedi Control Zone

Is an expansive area, currently off-limits to UNG personnel and shipping, by treaty with the Zentraedi commander in charge of the Zentraedi Grand Fleet, which controls and constantly patrols the area. The commander continues to follow the order of the Protocultures to avoid the Protoculture. In addition, he follows the last orders that he received from the Protocultures, which were to maintain control and security of the area, and protect it from the Supervision Army.

In the last decade, a number of rogue Zentraedi have migrated from the UNG territories into the control zone; and are currently at war with the Grand Fleet.

I find this extremely interesting. What are the circumstances behind it? How was a treaty reached between the Zentraedi and the UNG? Was a UNG Zentreadi delegation sent to negotiate on behalf of the UNG?

I always assumed the Zentraedi were belligerent to the UN Spacy/UN Government. This is the first bit I've seen that shows this isn't the case.

[JB0]

On top of all that, we see the existence of medical technology: cybernetics. DYRL presents a more advanced version, and SDFM, especially with Buritai, whp appears to have a metal plate that's simply bolted on.

So, the implications are that medical technology exists and is used, especially the heigher a soldier's rank and how much knowledge/experience they have. But on the other hand, life is still cheap.

Touche.

They'd definitely want a way to patch up injured commanders and archivists. And possibly cybernetic upgrades(if nothing else, Bodol's ship-body in DYRL is one. I admit to being curious if Britai's eyeplate was intended as a replacement for an eye injured in a previous campaign or an "upgrade" of some sort.).

Of course, if what we've seen is any indication, the troops on the front lines aren't likely to come back in need of medical treatment because their mechs tend to erupt into fireballs around them.

But that could easily be due to the camera pointed at the most exciting things at any given moment, similar to the VF-1 and destroid combustibility.

[falks]

If the things on it are green, then they are canon in the sense of being mentioned officially in-universe.

That said, the locations are speculation. The locations are also the "last known location" as well.

The map is also useless without context. Here's the context: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Locations/Locations.htm#slref

It was the first time I had seen a macross map with real locations and events, so I read to much into it.

Actually it made me remember all the maps that were put together with context in the "Homeworld" universe.

Thanks sketchley

If it shows the location of the Megaroad-01, then no, it's not canon. No one knows where that ship is. Sorry.

Yes, presumably lost with all hands.

From macross chronicle

"Spacecraft Introduction*

The Megaroad-01 was initially the Earth-Produced Space Battleship SDF-2, and construction began in November 2003. The project was halted during Space War I, but after the final battle the Humanity Seeding Project was implemented, and building of the craft, now reconceived as an Emigration Ship, resumed in June of 2010. At the same time, the plans to make the ship the nucleus of an entire Emigration Fleet was also begun. Afterwards, in September 2012, the Super Long Range Emigration Fleet Number One left earth with the Megaroad-01 as its flagship. It set off heading towards the center of the galaxy, but after it arrived in the vicinity of the galactic center in July of 2016, all communications from the ship ceased. Feeling nervous about any ill-will directed towards the Seeding Project, the New U.N. Government avoided making the incident public, saying that the Megaroad-01 was still continuing on its way."

Oh and thank you to both sketchley and gubaba, for all the info you translated, for any one that doesn't understand japanese it helps a lot.

[sketchley]

I find this extremely interesting. What are the circumstances behind it? How was a treaty reached between the Zentraedi and the UNG? Was a UNG Zentreadi delegation sent to negotiate on behalf of the UNG?

I always assumed the Zentraedi were belligerent to the UN Spacy/UN Government. This is the first bit I've seen that shows this isn't the case.

Was that section green? No. Ergo: it's not canon.

If you want to discuss it further, you're welcome to open a new topic in the Fan Works section.

Edited August 6, 2010 by sketchley

[RedWolf]

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Locations/Milkyway/MilkyWay-MapZoom.jpg

On another note Zola isn't at the core region. According to dialogue it is a Rim region of the galaxy. Since there is a smuggling and illegal arms market I'd say just outside our corner of the galaxy the Orion spiral arm. Earth is located at the edge of the Orion spiral arm. Not to mention references to Macross 11 and Fire Bomber American.

[sketchley]

Which doesn't make sense. Why? How far and how long it takes to make a space fold. In M7D, we see Gamlin make a space fold from the M7 fleet with a fighter-sized fold booster "not rated for folds greater than 20 light years".

Therefore, Zola has to be within 20 light years of the M7 fleet.

Which brings up the next question: where is the M7 fleet? The information I had at the time of making the map was that the M7 fleet was "near the center of the Milkyway Galaxy". MF mentions the same, and that even if the MF fleet folded directly to Earth (which is impossible given fold faults), it take more than 5 years (or was it 10?). Given that Earth is also not near the tip of one of the spiral arms furthest from the core at the edge of the galaxy, it means that it'd take 10 to 20 years for the M7 fleet to fold to the tip, proper. The events of M7D occur within a year of the end of M7. Therefore, it's impossible for Zola to be at the edge of the Milkyway Galaxy farthest from the core, let alone on any point of the spiral arms outside of the core, proper.

Now, one has to take into consideration the translation itself. Is it accurate? Were the translators working off of the original script or what someone thought they heard over the speaker? Do they use words like "colonization fleet" or "super long range emigration/immigration fleet" in the subtitles? Did the translation actually state that Zola's at the edge of the galaxy, meaning the parts farthest from the core on one of the arms; the edge at a point near the core; simply the edge of space that the Unified Government has explored and emigrated to; or none of the above?

So, given the available information an in-series technological limitations, I placed Zola at the edge of one of the arms at or in the core.

Oh, by the way, did you notice the disclaimer I posted earlier in this thread? http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=26406&view=findpost&p=865306 Here's the context: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Locations/Locations.htm

Edited August 13, 2010 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

Which doesn't make sense. Why? How far and how long it takes to make a space fold. In M7D, we see Gamlin make a space fold from the M7 fleet with a fighter-sized fold booster "not rated for folds greater than 20 light years".

Therefore, Zola has to be within 20 light years of the M7 fleet.

Granted, the FBF-1000A fold booster is not rated for distances greater than 20 light years. It is, however, worth noting that "rated/certified for" isn't necessarily the same thing as "limited to", and they do mention that strides had been made in improving the accuracy and overall reliability of fold boosters by the end of the 2040s.

Having taken great pains to not re-watch Macross Dynamite 7, I can only operate under the (potentially flawed) assumption that RedWolf's recollection of the dialogue is accurate. If so, then this would seem to me to be nothing more than an inconsistency in the depiction of fold travel between two different generations of Macross sequel. After all, this "fold fault" malarkey was something new that was introduced in Macross Frontier, so naturally Macross Dynamite 7's writers wouldn't have factored that into their story, if they even stopped to consider all the distances involved. There is, of course, no denying that the Macross 7 fleet was in or near the galactic core, since the dialogue is quite unambiguous about Rax/Lux and Varauta 3198XE both being in/near the core.

MF mentions the same, and that even if the MF fleet folded directly to Earth (which is impossible given fold faults), it take more than 5 years (or was it 10?).

It was 10... though wasn't it that the most distant colonies (or colony fleets) would take ten years of travel to get back to Earth? If anyone wants to dig out the Otona Anime interview thread, we can double-check that. Yep, 10 years to actually travel back to Earth via fold from the colony fleets.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[azrael]

Ummmmm...Are we sure Gamlin wasn't planet hopping, or conversely, are we sure Gamlin went to Zola directly? Are we sure he wasn't just given a bearing and told, he's somewhere in this area?

[sketchley]

The distance that Gamlin travelled doesn't matter so much as the distance that anyone can travel by space fold in the time frame between the end of M7 and the start of M7D.

[Seto Kaiba]

Ummmmm...Are we sure Gamlin wasn't planet hopping, or conversely, are we sure Gamlin went to Zola directly? Are we sure he wasn't just given a bearing and told, he's somewhere in this area?

It's certainly possible... of course, what we've seen with regard to transit times over known distances and Zola's supposed location near the galactic rim, it would've taken Gamlin quite a few fold jumps to get there with his fold booster... possibly as many as 1,250 20 light year fold jumps. If memory serves, it's been established that the 11.7ly fold jump from Eden to Earth takes something to the tune of 18-24 hours (the precise figure escapes me), which would mean that even if the distances involved were conservative he'd still be looking at about two and a half years of continuous fold travel. Even if he had the non-canon VF-19ES Mystery Ship II and the Project Phaeton fold booster (model kit customizations done for the June '02 issue of Model Graphix), which set the galaxy speed record over c by traveling from the New Edwards AFB on Eden to Edwards AF on Earth in 118 minutes, he'd still be looking at over three months in the cockpit to get from the area around the galactic core to the galactic rim.

EDIT: After looking at the calendar, at the VF-19ES Mystery Ship II's speed it would actually be containable for Gamlin to fold all the way from the core to the rim where Zola is supposedly located, assuming that Mylene starts her solo act no later than mid-April. Shame Project Phaeton isn't canon, eh?

EDIT #2: Assuming the 1:240 time displacement effect is consistent for that jump, Gamlin would only be in the cockpit for about 9 hours of experienced time, though he'd lose three-and-a-quarter months of objective time.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Zor Primus]

For what I have understood, contact was lost with this fleet as it approached the center of the galaxy.

My question is, wouldn't this be the perfect launch point for a new Macross series? We don't have to actually pick up from the Megaroad's first jump but can style around whoever is still around in 2059+? What do you guys think?

I would like to know what happened to the two main characters from the original series, not to mention the progress of their fleet and the people who left with them. Would there be an entirely different development of the Valkrie fighters and Destroids? Why did they lose contact? Could they have discovered something more left behind by the Protoculture? Or are there some harder to beat Zentraedi out there? Maybe even a brush fight with the mystic Supervision Army...I was just thinking after watching Macross Frontier again it'd be a great way to move forward.

[eugimon]

I'm telling you, got sucked into a wormhole and became the progenitors for the eventual events chronicled in Orguss.

[azrael]

My question is, wouldn't this be the perfect launch point for a new Macross series? We don't have to actually pick up from the Megaroad's first jump but can style around whoever is still around in 2059+? What do you guys think?

I would like to know what happened to the two main characters from the original series, not to mention the progress of their fleet and the people who left with them. Would there be an entirely different development of the Valkrie fighters and Destroids? Why did they lose contact? Could they have discovered something more left behind by the Protoculture? Or are there some harder to beat Zentraedi out there? Maybe even a brush fight with the mystic Supervision Army...I was just thinking after watching Macross Frontier again it'd be a great way to move forward.

Kawamori probably feels otherwise. He's spent a lot of time with them (3 shows) and probably feels he's told the story he wants to with them. That's probably the whole point of Birler's Minmay locket. That's his nod to those characters. Personally, with the vast size of the Macross-universe, I feel that there's more stories out there that don't involve the same repetitive characters. Everyone's got a story so why not look beyond Hikaru-Minmay-Misa.

I'm telling you, got sucked into a wormhole and became the progenitors for the eventual events chronicled in Orguss.

And the legend continues...

[falks]

Kawamori probably feels otherwise. He's spent a lot of time with them (3 shows) and probably feels he's told the story he wants to with them. That's probably the whole point of Birler's Minmay locket. That's his nod to those characters. Personally, with the vast size of the Macross-universe, I feel that there's more stories out there that don't involve the same repetitive characters. Everyone's got a story so why not look beyond Hikaru-Minmay-Misa.

And the legend continues...

I kind of agree there and suspect Kawamori won't touch does characters again, they are mythical of sorts.

Still there's explanations for many other events in the macross universe but not for this event and on the other hand a redoing of any stuff from the original series SDF Macross could be made around this story and creat distance from the Gold company.

On another note as the stories have been progressing, the puch to the galaxy core is more and more clear so in a simple sence some sort of back ground context explanation would be kind of expected.

[Boxer]

With all the colonization fleets pushing to the galactic core, do any of them expect to run into Megaroad-01 (or what's left of Megaroad-01?)

I felt that if Kawamori wanted to revisit Megaroad-01, it would be through Miku Ichijo's eyes. Her parents might be legendary, but does excluding them from the picture mean Miku doesn't get any life? Or is that the way it should be? :\

Here's a newbie question/consideration: At the end of Macross 7, should we presume the freed Varutan colonists shredded their remaining military equipment or did they recycle all the Protodevlin-era technology but removed all the spiritua gear? I have this idea of an FZ-109 in UN Spacy Livery and wondering if it was possible...

[Seto Kaiba]

With all the colonization fleets pushing to the galactic core, do any of them expect to run into Megaroad-01 (or what's left of Megaroad-01?)

Nope... space is BIG. Even assuming that the Megaroad-01 is somewhere in or near a solar system, the odds of running into them by accident or design are minuscule at best. If they're not in or near a solar system (or at the very least, near a star) then the chances of finding them are practically zero. Of course, that's assuming there's something left of the ship and its fleet to find... it could easily have folded out into the photoevaporation sphere of a nearby star and been destroyed, or drawn into a black hole and crushed, or even attacked by a rogue fleet of Zentradi or the remnants of the Supervision Army and wiped out.

Here's a newbie question/consideration: At the end of Macross 7, should we presume the freed Varutan colonists shredded their remaining military equipment or did they recycle all the Protodevlin-era technology but removed all the spiritua gear? I have this idea of an FZ-109 in UN Spacy Livery and wondering if it was possible...

Eh... one would imagine that any surviving Varauta Army technology would've been seized by the U.N. Spacy for study and possible reverse-engineering. It's possible that some might've been pressed into service by the local defense forces, assuming the Varauta system colony wasn't abandoned after the war, but I doubt that any got made after the war ended... presumably because the U.N. Spacy had already moved onto a new generation of advanced variable fighters with the VF-19, VF-22, and VF-171. Remember, the Fz-109 series was supposedly a derivative of the VF-14 Vampire, the competing design that lost out to the VF-11 Thunderbolt.

[Boxer]

Nope... space is BIG. Even assuming that the Megaroad-01 is somewhere in or near a solar system, the odds of running into them by accident or design are minuscule at best. If they're not in or near a solar system (or at the very least, near a star) then the chances of finding them are practically zero. Of course, that's assuming there's something left of the ship and its fleet to find... it could easily have folded out into the photoevaporation sphere of a nearby star and been destroyed, or drawn into a black hole and crushed, or even attacked by a rogue fleet of Zentradi or the remnants of the Supervision Army and wiped out.

My thinking was along the lines of finding out Megaroad-01 had settled, and it was a matter of running into signals from the planet settled and/or the local patrols set up around the area. In the very least, some evidence to point to what happened. IIRC, Megaroad-01's destination was 'near the center of the galaxy', or did they just keep going around the core?

Then again I suppose it's useless asking since it's a subject Kawamori will never return to (they've already ridden off into the sunset).

Eh... one would imagine that any surviving Varauta Army technology would've been seized by the U.N. Spacy for study and possible reverse-engineering. It's possible that some might've been pressed into service by the local defense forces, assuming the Varauta system colony wasn't abandoned after the war, but I doubt that any got made after the war ended... presumably because the U.N. Spacy had already moved onto a new generation of advanced variable fighters with the VF-19, VF-22, and VF-171. Remember, the Fz-109 series was supposedly a derivative of the VF-14 Vampire, the competing design that lost out to the VF-11 Thunderbolt.

Well, how about the AZ-130 and the other variable attack craft? The capital vessels at least? I imagine that the UN Spacy would be interested in a couple or several enemy craft for study, but the rest were either 'disposed of' or refitted for UN Spacy service with the Varuta colony. I'm not finished with Mac 7 yet, but my thinking was that with the Protodevlin gone, Varuta was inhabited by the former Megarod colonists who settled there, and they re-used their Varuta-era machinery (ones that were modified, anyway) as their defense forces until they manufactured newer replacements from the UN Spacy. The FZ-109 seems to be just as effective as the VF-11, and the VF-19 was just being rolled out. The difference is between having a standing defense force with little modification, drawing from Macross7's already depleted space defenses, or being defenseless without either until they could manufacture replacements and re-tool their existing factories to do so.

After all given what discussions I've read on colony fleet diversification, using refitted, former Supervivion FZ-109s sounds like the beginning of fleets using ships other than a 'universal standard' variable fighter.

[Seto Kaiba]

My thinking was along the lines of finding out Megaroad-01 had settled, and it was a matter of running into signals from the planet settled and/or the local patrols set up around the area. In the very least, some evidence to point to what happened.

I'm pretty sure the one source that talks about what they were doing right before the ship vanished is generally held to be non-canon, and puts them near a black hole somewhere in the galactic center. That aside, I think the fate of the Megaroad-01 is still very much up in the air, though we'll likely never know what happened.

Well, how about the AZ-130 and the other variable attack craft? The capital vessels at least? I imagine that the UN Spacy would be interested in a couple or several enemy craft for study, but the rest were either 'disposed of' or refitted for UN Spacy service with the Varuta colony.

Your guess is as good as mine... like the Fz-109, the bulk of the Varauta military hardware was probably made up of a mixture of U.N. technology and the Protodeviln's additions to same. Considering their circumstances, I'd be inclined to say the Varauta colony would probably be reluctant to continue using the equipment they'd been forced to construct and use. It doesn't look like there was a lot left of the Varauta Army's equipment after all of the shenanigans surrounding the final battle of the war, and their fleet only consisted of about 500 ships in the first place. The surviving examples of their equipment were probably kept for study by the U.N. Spacy, and fleet assets transferred in from elsewhere to protect the system until they could rebuild their forces. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that some of the surviving ships were pressed into service as a new planetary defense fleet, but I see it as unlikely under the circumstances.

After all given what discussions I've read on colony fleet diversification, using refitted, former Supervivion FZ-109s sounds like the beginning of fleets using ships other than a 'universal standard' variable fighter.

No, by all accounts that practice seems to have started much earlier, with the Megaroad-13's VF-14 complement being a prime example, since the main fighter of the day was actually the VF-11 Thunderbolt.

[RedWolf]

No, by all accounts that practice seems to have started much earlier, with the Megaroad-13's VF-14 complement being a prime example, since the main fighter of the day was actually the VF-11 Thunderbolt.

On that note Macross 7 Fleet managed to ID the VF tech as Varauta since their VF-14 that rolled out is beefy compared to the VF-14 used by special forces.

Also Zola Patrol has their own spins to the VF-5000 and that VF-19 Basara...rented.

On the location of Zola it makes sense it is closer to or just outside Earth's region of space than Macross 7's location. Earth is much closer to the galactic rim than the galactic core.

Frequent references to Macross 11. In the radio drama it is as if a person can just commute from Zola to Macross 11. Loschier Company arms black market operate in a region where it can be reached by fold booster from. The fact there is a smuggling operation there suggest there is market hence terrorists and insurrectionists making trouble for colonies besides poachers are their customers. Finally in the Grace's galactic domination we are shown Earth, Eden and Macross 11. Which tells us yup they have the entire NUNG checked from the galactic core to the galactic rim.

Fold Faults are a plot device shown in Macross Frontier way after Macross 7. Question is given what we know how do we reconcile the discrepancy. It should be noted when Basara hitchhiked his first destination wasn't Zola. He took the commercial flight or freighter routes. Fold Fault would be a pain to navigate, if you go through regions that do have them that is. The region where Macross 7 is has two colonies close to it. Varauta and that South American mining colony. Which pretty much tells this is more or less explored space hence commercial shipping is possible. With some surprises like Chlore's Meltran fleet.

Macross Frontier and Macross Galaxy are pushing towards unexplored regions. Where there are troublesome Fold Faults to navigate with.

[Seto Kaiba]

Also Zola Patrol has their own spins to the VF-5000 and that VF-19 Basara...rented.

Now, has that actually been confirmed that the VF-5000G and VF-5000T-G are Zola-made modifications to the VF-5000 platform, or are you just assuming they are? As far as I know, there's nothing to indicate that they aren't simply an export/civilian model like the VA-3C (Kai).

Frequent references to Macross 11. In the radio drama it is as if a person can just commute from Zola to Macross 11.

That, IMO, is probably the most telling piece of data for placing Zola near the galactic rim... since Macross-11 was outward bound along the rim rather than through the core, and if memory serves the radio play Zomeo and Zoliet had one of the principal characters down as an emigrant from the Macross-11 fleet who decided to stay on Zola.

Fold Fault would be a pain to navigate, if you go through regions that do have them that is. The region where Macross 7 is has two colonies close to it. Varauta and that South American mining colony.

The colony in question was Veil, but yeah... it does raise questions of how Basara got from the 37th Colony Fleet to near the galactic rim in only a few months, but that is, as we've both said, explainable by the non-existence of fold faults prior to Macross Frontier. That said, if you take the faults out of the equation it's actually somewhat on the containable side for Basara to have taken a flight to Zola and had the realtime loss be less than four months from the trip, which would screw with the continuity of Macross Dynamite 7 just a tad, but otherwise work.

[Reignfire]

I was just wondering if all of the series stayed inside the original continuity. All life on earth was destroyed except for those on the Macross. Every human character in every series had to be decended from the Macross population right? Exactly how many humans were aboard the ship and how many zentradi chose to enter human society? Wouldn't the micronized zentradi out number the earthlings? Just a few decades later in Macross 7 you see lots of fleets from earth fly through space housing huge populations of humans and zentradi. How can there be such a population growth in such a short time? Just curious.

[Seto Kaiba]

I was just wondering if all of the series stayed inside the original continuity. All life on earth was destroyed except for those on the Macross. Every human character in every series had to be decended from the Macross population right?

No... you're actually working from an incorrect assumption here. True, the surface of the Earth did take one hell of a pounding at the hands of the Zentradi, but you would be wrong to assume that meant the only survivors of the war were on the Macross. The official continuity establishes that between several hundred thousand and a million humans survived the orbital bombardment. The main locations that sheltered survivors were three of the Grand Cannons (1, 3, 5), Luna's Apollo Base, and space colony clusters. There was a cloning program running to shore up the human population between 2010 and 2030 as well. The humans we see in the decades following Space War 1 are the survivors, their clones, and the descendants of either.

Exactly how many humans were aboard the ship and how many zentradi chose to enter human society?

Aboard the Macross? 'bout 44,000 civilians plus whatever was left of the ship's crew of ~20,000. The source for the Zentradi population escapes me at the moment, but I remember reading the surviving Zentradi population that settled on Earth was something to the tune of 8 million people... presumably they were not included in the mass cloning program.

Wouldn't the micronized zentradi out number the earthlings? Just a few decades later in Macross 7 you see lots of fleets from earth fly through space housing huge populations of humans and zentradi. How can there be such a population growth in such a short time? Just curious.

See the above... we've got a twenty year long mass-cloning program to shore numbers up a bit, and as we've seen courtesy of Max and Milia, rather a lot of energetic fornication on the part of the survivors.

[Mr March]

Oh, I found that reverse analysis of the UNG population I wrote a long time ago. This new topic on the subject is as good a time as any to re-post it. Hope you find this interesting...

There aren't any official population figures and any speculation is going to be arbitrary speculation at best. Having said that, perhaps we can have some fun determining useful information by examining the official trivia in another way.

For example, what if we asked what the UNG needs as a population to sustain the kind of colonization diaspora it was undertaking during the post-SWI years?

Well, we know the Megaroad fleets included at least 80,000 colonists (this doesn’t include the Megaroad crew or the escort fleet of Zentradi Battlecruisers and UN Spacy Battleships). The Megaroad fleets began less than 4 years after the start of mass cloning in 2010. In 2014, the UNG begins regularly sending 1-2 Megaroad colony fleets of 80,000+ people annually and three such fleets have already launched by that year.

So, in 4 years the UNG needed to grow by 24% from 1 million to 1,240,000 just to cover the colonist count of the three Megaroad fleets (no crew, no escort fleet count). Unfortunately, we have no numbers for the fleets and no growth rate for Earth, even though Earth became a major population center with a population explosion in 2011. This prompts the need for super-long-distance colonization and close-range colonization fleets (even MORE people for which we lack figures).

By 2014 the UNG Megaroad colonization program demands 160,000 people per year, every year, just on Megaroad colonists alone. This would be in excess of the growing population needed to sustain Earth and any other colonies (such as Eden, colonized the year before in 2013 by a close-range colony fleet). A natural growth rate starting from 1 million people would yield 10,000 people per year at a conservative growth rate of 1%. So mass cloning is yielding at minimum a 16.0% growth rate. However, not every new citizen can be attached to a colony fleet. If they were, Earth, Eden and all other established colonies would be suffering negative growth rates. So we’ll assume the growth rate is 17% to allow for established colonies to remain viable, which gives use 170,000 people per year.

In 2030, mass cloning ends, but Megaroad super-long-range colony fleets continue to depart. This means that either a “natural” growth rate must be 17% (untenable) or the population of the UNG must be so large that it can naturally sustain the colonization fleet requirements of 160,000 people per year. In order for a natural growth rate to both sustain colonization fleet requirements and sustain existing colonies, the population of the UNG must be no less than 10 million people by 2030...but wait....

...again in 2030, additional burdens arise upon on the UNG population. The first New Macross Class colony fleets begin departure in 2030, which include in excess of 1 million people per fleet departing once per year. Again, mass cloning has ended, which means in addition to the Megaroad fleets, the UNG must have a population such that they can sustain a “natural” growth rate that accommodates colonization fleet requirements of 1,160,000 people per year. At 1% per year, the UNG must have a population of approx 230 million people by 2030 to meet colonization fleet requirements AND sustain natural growth of existing colonies.

Let's continue...

In 2041, the 25th New Macross Class emigration fleet (55th Super Long-distance emigrant fleet – Macross 25/Frontier fleet) leaves Earth. The fleet has 10 million people. Total UNG sustainable population requirement: 2.3 billion.

In 2045, the UNG absorbed Chlore's Meltrandi fleet in the Fleet of the Strongest Women (Macross 7), consisting of 97,000 warships accounting for roughly 151,708,000 Meltrandi (using the Zentradi Main Fleet ratio).

Now for the real noodle bake: the numbers above fail to account for:

• death and death rates

• the 156,000 Zentradi in 2010 and their population/colonization growth rates (with the exception of the NMC fleets starting in 2030 that were Zentradi, such as Macross 5).

• the fact that the Zentradi, unlike the humans, still clone as of 2059 (see Macross Frontier)

• ALL close-range colony fleets are unaccounted, such as the close-range fleet that colonized Eden in 2013

• Megaroad, Zentradi and UN Spacy fleet crews for 16 years between 2014-2030

• absorption of other, non-cultured Zentradi/Meltrandi fleets

• the population of Zola and the Zolan’s induction into the UNG (Macross Dynamite 7)

What does this all tell us? Well, it doesn't give us any definitive population figures. What this analysis does is prove that the official numbers (80,000 for the Megaroads, 1 million for the New Macross Class) require a minimum amount of people to sustain both existing colonies and new colonization. All indications are the UNG has grown at an unimaginable rate in a ridiculously short time placing BELOW MINIMUM population numbers in the billions by 2041. Both Earth and Eden are depicted in Macross Plus and Macross Frontier as burgeoning colonies indicating sustained growth and a single colony fleet may have a sustainable population of 10 million by the 2040s. All evidence from Macross canon and official trivia indicates growth rates continue uninterrupted. If by 2041 the UNG population numbers 2.3 billion reached in 31 years from a starting base of 1 million, the next two decades from 2041-2059 could easily lead to a NUNG civilization population in the tens of billions.

Just to note, I wrote this analysis before the Chronicle supplied a number of new figures on crews and fleet counts. Regardless, the same technique should work fine with different figures but the original figures are still relevant anyway.

[Boxer]

...and space colony clusters.

I recall there was mention of a factory at a lagrange point manufacturing ARMDs and Oberths... but were concrete facts ever given about Earth's orbital assets? And how did they survive without being obliterated by the Zentreadi? (unless they started with the planet first?)