Newbie Questions on Macross

[s-girl]

I'm a newbie, but am not sure where to post this question.

Did anyone notice that macrossfrontier.com points to an ADV page? What's up with that? Speculative domain name snatching?

[JB0]

I'm a newbie, but am not sure where to post this question.

Did anyone notice that macrossfrontier.com points to an ADV page? What's up with that? Speculative domain name snatching?

Wouldn't be the first time.

HG registered a DYRL URL a while back. Fueled a bit of rumor for a while.

All that ever came out of it was a few busts, if I remember right.

[azrael]

Wouldn't be the first time.

HG registered a DYRL URL a while back. Fueled a bit of rumor for a while.

All that ever came out of it was a few busts, if I remember right.

HG also has macross7.com. It's domain parking. Companies do it all the time.

[junior]

Which would mean they were getting their butts kicked royally before Hikaru signed up. Never mind.

iirc, there are at least a couple of episodes in which the bridge crew mention teams having taken heavy losses or being wiped out in the fighting. So I'd guess that Vermillion team's record of zero casualties to enemy fire is a very noteworthy exception (even Kakizaki wasn't killed by enemy action).

It would also be unusual for someone like Hikaru to be promoted to replace his squadron commander so soon. Given that he didn't join up until after the Macross left Earth, every pilot present in episode 1 would have more seniority than him. Part of the explanation is no doubt that Hikaru is an excellent pilot and leader (which gets you bumped up over a lot of other pilots), and is acknowledged as such by most of the other members of Skull Squadron (and that once again points to the idea that Vermillion team does better than most of the other teams). But there would also need to have been a lot of casualties among the experienced pilots in order for Hikaru to be picked as the replacement for Focker. It's highly unlikely that Hikaru would outperform everyone else in Skull Squadron to such a degree that he'd get bumped to the top of the list as Focker's replacement - unless many of the other vets had been killed in the fighting.

[Master Dex]

Hikaru is a good pilot of course, but I think Vermillions good track record probably stems more from Max, who is the best pilot of them all (at least IMO, but I think most would agree), besides Roy at the very least.

[junior]

There's no doubt that Max is the best pilot in the fleet. And as noted, Hikaru himself is pretty good (iirc, it's Hikaru that Khamjin is really referencing when he mentions a superior VF pilot to Milia). But squadron leader duty is a lot more than just being able to fly well. It's also the ability to properly lead and coordinate the pilots under your command.

For instance, the abililty to keep track of Kakizaki and make sure that no matter how brashly he acts in combat, either Hikaru or Max is nearby to help him out if necessary.

Max and Hikaru are good, but presumeably they're among the best of the best on board Macross (particularly Max, who is probably THE best).

One wonders how many Kakizakis there are in the fleet who don't have a Max and Hikaru around to bail them out of trouble. I'd be willing to bet that they outnumber the Maxes and the Hikarus by a nice margin. And so the lack of casualties in Vermillion is almost certainly a fluke. And imo that's born out by the occasional bridge comment that mentions losses among the other teams flying off of Macross.

[JB0]

iirc, there are at least a couple of episodes in which the bridge crew mention teams having taken heavy losses or being wiped out in the fighting. So I'd guess that Vermillion team's record of zero casualties to enemy fire is a very noteworthy exception (even Kakizaki wasn't killed by enemy action).

I was just thinking that if Hikaru is 101, and Max and Kakizaki are 102 and 103... that means either the numbers aren't based on replaced planes, or that EVERYONE in Skull quit dying when Hikaru signed up until Kakizaki started pulling them back down.

But yeah, you're right that most Valk pilots are getting raped left and right.

It would also be unusual for someone like Hikaru to be promoted to replace his squadron commander so soon. Given that he didn't join up until after the Macross left Earth, every pilot present in episode 1 would have more seniority than him. Part of the explanation is no doubt that Hikaru is an excellent pilot and leader (which gets you bumped up over a lot of other pilots), and is acknowledged as such by most of the other members of Skull Squadron (and that once again points to the idea that Vermillion team does better than most of the other teams). But there would also need to have been a lot of casualties among the experienced pilots in order for Hikaru to be picked as the replacement for Focker. It's highly unlikely that Hikaru would outperform everyone else in Skull Squadron to such a degree that he'd get bumped to the top of the list as Focker's replacement - unless many of the other vets had been killed in the fighting.

They do point that a few times in the show that the promotions are pretty iffy.

When Hikaru makes a comment about how green his new wingmen are, Focker's quick to knock him back into line by pointing out that he isn't that much more experienced than they are.

And after the whole team gets promoted(if I recall, it's right after the Cat's Eye mission), they comment that they're getting promoted absurdly fast. Sort of "Hey, you aren't dead yet? Here, have another rank."

Everyone knows they aren't being promoted on the basis of skill and experience, but because there's empty fighters that need filling.

One wonders how many Kakizakis there are in the fleet who don't have a Max and Hikaru around to bail them out of trouble. I'd be willing to bet that they outnumber the Maxes and the Hikarus by a nice margin. And so the lack of casualties in Vermillion is almost certainly a fluke. And imo that's born out by the occasional bridge comment that mentions losses among the other teams flying off of Macross.

Kakizaki's not without talent(in the simulators he ranked as well as Max did). He's just unpolished, overconfident, and overexcitable.

I honestly thought the contrast between Max and Kakizaki was interesting.

It's somewhat ironic that when he dies, he's actually starting to shape up into a decent pilot. If you compare his first appearances to his performance in Burst Point, it's almost like he's a different person.

Burst Point also features the only non-title-sequence use of the Badass Shades switch on Hikaru's helmet(well, maybe Phantasm, but that's using the title animation anyways), so it's worth watching for that alone.

...

What? I can't be the only person that thought that looked insanely awesome.

[Gubaba]

I was just thinking that if Hikaru is 101, and Max and Kakizaki are 102 and 103... that means either the numbers aren't based on replaced planes, or that EVERYONE in Skull quit dying when Hikaru signed up until Kakizaki started pulling them back down.

But they're not...Kakizaki was 111 and Max was 112.

The only real holes I can find in the "Valks being given out in sequential order theory" is first: Hikaru's VF-1D was 102 (and maybe the VT numbering is different, but I refuse to believe there were over a hundred trainers), and second: that Max got VF-1J 202, and then a couple of episodes later, Millia got 303.

What? I can't be the only person that thought that looked insanely awesome.

Itano circuses look insanely awesome. Visors coming down look...vaguely interesting. At best.

(Granted, as visors go, those were primo, but still...)

[shogun029]

While we're on the topic of the numerology of Macross, I've been thinking about something else. The VF-1 was designated "Valkyrie." The VF-4, the "Lightning," VF-11, "Thunderbolt," VF-25, "Messiah," and so on. Those are just some of the ones that we have come to know and love in the Macross series through the years. But what about the rest? For example, what were the names of the VF-2 and 3, or the VF-5, 6 or 7? What was in between the YF-19 and the YF-21? Was the 'YF-20' a tested and failed design? Does anyone know if there is a list out there that designates the rest of variable fighters that have been used in the Macross universe? Just curious.

[d3v]

While we're on the topic of the numerology of Macross, I've been thinking about something else. The VF-1 was designated "Valkyrie." The VF-4, the "Lightning," VF-11, "Thunderbolt," VF-25, "Messiah," and so on. Those are just some of the ones that we have come to know and love in the Macross series through the years. But what about the rest? For example, what were the names of the VF-2 and 3, or the VF-5, 6 or 7? What was in between the YF-19 and the YF-21? Was the 'YF-20' a tested and failed design? Does anyone know if there is a list out there that designates the rest of variable fighters that have been used in the Macross universe? Just curious.

Hmm...

Known variable fighter numbers with some notes (mostly from the Macross Compendium):

* VF-0 "Pheonix) (developmental VF, deployed as a stopgap until VF-1s thermonuclear engines were ready)

* VF-1 Valkyrie

* VF-X-2 (no data)

* VF-X-3 (lost out to the VF-X-4 as repalcement for VF-1)

* VF-3000 Crusader (remodeled version of the VF-1)

* VF-4 Lightning III

* VF-5 (low cast alternative to the VF-1)

* VF-5000 "Star Mirage" (1st to use Zentraedi tech)

* VF-6 no data

* VF-7 no data

* VF-9 Cutlass (low cost, higher performance alternative to the VF-4)

* VF-11 Thunderbolt

* VF-14 Vampire

* VF-15 (1st to introduce anti-G system)

* VF-16 (never went into mass production(?) parts used for VF-11 MAXL Custom)

* VF-17 Nightmare

* VF-171 (derivative of VF-17)

* VF-19 Excalibur

* YF-21 (lost to YF-19, later reborn as the VF-22)

* VF-22 Sturmvogel II

* YF-24 (cancelled, used as basis for VF-25 and maybe the VF-27)

* VF-25 "Messiah"

* VF-27

That leaves the ff. unused numbers.

*VF-8

*VF-10

*VF-12

*VF-13

*VF-18

*VF-20

*VF-23

One possible explanation is that most of the "skipped" numbers were actually given to prototypes in competitions that never made it beyond that stage. It's also possible that the UNS originally used the VF-X-## designations for prototypes before reverting to the more familiar YF designation (based on the current, US system).

Edited June 15, 2008 by d3v

[shogun029]

Holy crap!!! Thanks for the awesome list! Is there a link to it, by any chance? And would you happen to know if there is any line art for the VFs on this list?

[JB0]

But they're not...Kakizaki was 111 and Max was 112.

Oh. Never mind then. Shoulda seen that the first time.

The only real holes I can find in the "Valks being given out in sequential order theory" is first: Hikaru's VF-1D was 102 (and maybe the VT numbering is different, but I refuse to believe there were over a hundred trainers), and second: that Max got VF-1J 202, and then a couple of episodes later, Millia got 303.

Bad day for Skull?

[Gubaba]

Holy crap!!! Thanks for the awesome list! Is there a link to it, by any chance? And would you happen to know if there is any line art for the VFs on this list?

Well, d3v got the info from the Macross Compendium, but there aren't many pictures there, so you might want to check Mr. March's site.

[Gubaba]

Bad day for Skull?

Possibly...or maybe they just produced a lot of Valks in preparation for the big Bodolzaa blowout battle...

When getting the old Imai kits, I always wondered about Lt. Warmaker in his cannon fodder 1A, numbered 117. Did he make it through Space War I alive...?

[d3v]

Holy crap!!! Thanks for the awesome list! Is there a link to it, by any chance? And would you happen to know if there is any line art for the VFs on this list?

Most of the more familiar ones have lineart for them, including those that were originally part of the canceled Advanced Valkyrie model series by Bandai and were later added to canon once SK got the chance to clean them up. Most of the ones in the teen though don't have any known line-art (unless I'm mistaken, and I do hope I am) for them, although for the VF-16, we can get a few clues to how it looked like from Mylene's VF-11 MAXL Custom from Macross 7.

[Morpheus]

Hmm...

VF-19 vs VF-21

VF-25 vs VF-27

So rivalry begin with two digit differences

I believe VF-18 and VF-20 are both earlier prototypes for the VF-19 and VF-21 respectively.

[Sumdumgai]

The prototype for the VF-19 was the YF-19, as the YF-21 was the prototype that was eventually revamped and adopted as the VF-22. As far back as when the 11 was a prototype it was under the designation YF-11. According to the Macross Compendium chronology, development of the YF/VF-17 began in 2026. Development of the YF-19 and YF-21 began in 2034, with the VF-17's first flight the following year.

Out of curiosity why do you think the 18 and 20 are earlier prototypes for the 19 and 21?

[Morpheus]

Out of curiosity why do you think the 18 and 20 are earlier prototypes for the 19 and 21?

Hmm, maybe I read them somewhere on some RPG website Oh well, back to my medication then

[Zinjo]

Holy crap!!! Thanks for the awesome list! Is there a link to it, by any chance? And would you happen to know if there is any line art for the VFs on this list?

One correction. According the what's been published about MacF, the YF-24 was the prototype version that became the VF-25, similar to how the YF-21 became the VF-22. It wasn't cancelled...

What the Galaxy used for the prototype for the VF-27 could very well have been designated the YF-26, although the fighter was built under the radar of NUNS, so at this point little is known about its development.

I don't know if it's official, but I suspect that the YF-16 was the prototype for the VF-17, although I am not sure where the info for the VF-16 came from, seems like it was speculation since the compendium doesn't have any information on that fighter.

[d3v]

One correction. According the what's been published about MacF, the YF-24 was the prototype version that became the VF-25, similar to how the YF-21 became the VF-22. It wasn't cancelled...

The Compendium lists VF-25 as independently developed from the YF-24 by L.A.I.. Seems to me that the 24 was a prototype that never made it past that stage, but who's design had enough merit that it was reborn as the 25 - sort of like how the VF-22 was derived from the YF-21, or for a real life example, how the F/A-18 came from the YF-17 (which lost out to the F-16) - which means that it doesn't necessarily follow that production versions get the next number in sequence to the prototype.

Edited June 16, 2008 by d3v

[Zinjo]

- which means that it doesn't necessarily follow that production versions get the next number in sequence to the prototype.

In the Macross universe that is becoming the norm.

Aside from the early days of VF development, there is no mention of the VF-8,9,10,12,13,17,18 or 23 loosely implying they may have been prototypes that became other variable fighters. Of course this is not carved in stone since Kawamori would never do that to himself...

Edited June 16, 2008 by Zinjo

[d3v]

Off course he could simply be skipping numbers to allow hims some freedom to maybe go back and add a few extra mecha. Also allows some space for speculation. Besides, if you think about it, even the US military doesn't strictly follow sequence.

Also, your list is wrong, there is a VF-9.

Edited June 16, 2008 by d3v

[Zinjo]

Off course he could simply be skipping numbers to allow hims some freedom to maybe go back and add a few extra mecha. Also allows some space for speculation. Besides, if you think about it, even the US military doesn't strictly follow sequence.

Also, your list is wrong, there is a VF-9.

Woops, typo....

Maybe, but unless he is preparing for a production he hasn't yet gone back and "filled" in the gaps with designs.

Keep in mind that Macross is a Japanese production and Kawamori tends to look internationally for his design inspiration, not only the US... Though he is moving away from that these days..

Edited June 16, 2008 by Zinjo

[wraith1701]

I'm kind of embarrassed to ask this, but it's been nagging me for a while now. Why are some fighters labled "YF", while others are labeled "VF"? What do the letters signify?

[Mr March]

Y denotes a Prototype craft, while V means "Variable", as in Variable Fighter, hence "VF"

The Macross Compendium has an excellent Glossary section that has all the little acronyms used in Macross.

[wraith1701]

Y denotes a Prototype craft, while V means "Variable", as in Variable Fighter, hence "VF"

The Macross Compendium has an excellent Glossary section that has all the little acronyms used in Macross.

Thank you! I didn't know the compendium existed; thanks for the link!

Edited June 16, 2008 by wraith1701

[Mr March]

Thank you! I didn't know the compendium existed; thanks for the link!

Yeah, no one does It never gets the recognition it deserves. Make sure to share the website with your friends. The Macross Compendium is officially approved by Big West (the owners of Macross in Japan) and is the definitive english website for all Macross facts and information.

[d3v]

Woops, typo....

Maybe, but unless he is preparing for a production he hasn't yet gone back and "filled" in the gaps with designs.

Keep in mind that Macross is a Japanese production and Kawamori tends to look internationally for his design inspiration, not only the US... Though he is moving away from that these days..

Off course, even international aircraft manufacturers (Sukhoi, Mikoyan) tend to skip numbers in series (although for Mikoyan, it's a matter of tradition, fighter craft get odd and attack/bombers get even numbers).

[Clay Cliff]

Another question about the VF-1: How did the cockpit transforms when the VF-1 turns from fighter/gerwalk mode into battroid mode? Where did all the screens and controls come from? Any scheme or diagram about it?... Thanks in advance.

[Master Dex]

The cockpit seat rotates 90 degrees and the canopy seems to holographically become a screen. This was what I always assumed at least, most of the controls are basically the same from before just reoriented.

[Dio]

There's a pretty good depiction of how it happens in Macross Zero - most of the projection screens are housed behind the pilot, so when the seat tips back they can slide downward (toward the tip of the aircraft nose) and end up in a frontal view. I would imagine the VF-1 follows a similar mechanic.

[Clay Cliff]

OK... Just curiosity... Thanks for your input.

Regards.

[dreamweaver13]

i suddenly remember in macross plus, when isamu interrupts guld's test flight by getting into the line of fire, and suddenly transforming into battroid. in that scene, it looked like isamu's cockpit seat was still the same as in figher configuration, thus he was seated facing the ground, and he had to strain his neck "upward" just to look at guld's direction.

i remember being confused about this coz i knew for certain that the pilot's seat rotates 90deg. was this ever explained? was it a case of the valk transforming too fast before the seat could adjust? or an animation error?

i know it's probably an old question already, but i just remembered it now because of this talk on the cockpit. gomen.

oh, and clay cliff, i recommend you visit mr. march's Macross mecha manual, it has lots of pictures/designs of cockpit interiors, in fighter, gerwalk or battroid form. quite comprehensive. -- http://www.new-un-spacy.com/m3.html

Edited June 17, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Sumdumgai]

I believe that that scene was for dramatic effect since he had already transformed the VF-11 into battroid mode, and it would make no sense for the heatshield to open up like that. During the scene Guld is losing control. I interpret it as Guld is seeing this, and we're seeing what Guld is seeing. What he's seeing isn't what's actually happening, and doesn't have to make sense because he's not exactly mentally stable. Does that make any sense?

[ComicKaze]

Just watched Zero for the first time. Downloaded years ago but never bothered until the new episode of Frontier was going to feature the "Macross Zero Play". Can somebody please explain to me what Professor Halford's plan was?

I didn't see him as that apocalyptic, he wanted to awaken the Birdman for another reason didn't he? He said to end the confusion? Or was he trying to destroy human civilization and it's warlike tendancies in the first place? What was his motivation?