Mr March Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Yes, a couple of the fansubs came up with different names, like Anti-ESS shells and Anti-ECA munitions and what not. But like Sulendil Ang has said, it appears the "Anti-Vajra E.S.A. munitions" is the correct translation. Also, the word munitions would seem to suggest the munitions were not just shells for the gun pods but this also referred to the missiles. Edited June 20, 2008 by Mr March Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) This has probably been brought up already, many episodes ago I am sure, but can the Gunpod of the VF-25 blow up a Red Lobster like it does in the opening? Or is that just animated for the opening glamour? From what we've seen, the gunpod (at least with regular shells) seems to do little against the big reds. Edited June 20, 2008 by d3v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yes, probably also means that the Full Armor's fighter mode can't be used planetside. Actually, I'm kinda hoping for a planetside super pack, like what they had for the VF-11. Actually it can and has done so on the Frontier Island 1. However it is limited to GERWALK mode for flight. With the lack of effective lift surfaces the armored fighter would essentially be a brick in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Actually it can and has done so on the Frontier Island 1. However it is limited to GERWALK mode for flight. With the lack of effective lift surfaces the armored fighter would essentially be a brick in the air. Much like the Space Shuttle (yes it has more discernible wings, but trust me it is a brick). However I agree, the armored VF-25 probably cannot use fighter mode in atmosphere, but we know if can fly using Gerwalk as there was once a lengthy discussion about whether or not it had the thrust power to fly with all that mass (and yes we all agreed it does and it can just fine). I bet the regular Super Pack could probably be flown in atmosphere in fighter mode, but the indication I get is that since the super pack increases speed it is probably too powerful which is why it is only used in space (much like other FAST packs in Macross, not counting the atmospheric specific ones for the VF-11). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Much like the Space Shuttle (yes it has more discernible wings, but trust me it is a brick). However I agree, the armored VF-25 probably cannot use fighter mode in atmosphere, but we know if can fly using Gerwalk as there was once a lengthy discussion about whether or not it had the thrust power to fly with all that mass (and yes we all agreed it does and it can just fine). I bet the regular Super Pack could probably be flown in atmosphere in fighter mode, but the indication I get is that since the super pack increases speed it is probably too powerful which is why it is only used in space (much like other FAST packs in Macross, not counting the atmospheric specific ones for the VF-11). Well, I guess we'll find out next episode if the FAST packs are viable for atmospheric flight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Not likely as the preview shows Alto flying in atmosphere with no FAST packs. I bet he dumps them like we've seen them do before they go into an environment (Although I don't know if the Vajra ship was an environment as they were still wearing X-Gear spacesuits). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Kind of a waste of money, isn't it, all that dumping of FAST-packs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastar Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Kind of a waste of money, isn't it, all that dumping of FAST-packs? dont kno really. might get recovered later on if there is no damage to the. But unless the VF-25 has atmospheric armor package the space fast packs are just gonna slow them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Not really, while all the armor and the boosters would create more drag to counteract the lift, the wings are there enough for lift and the extra thrust from the boosters should be more than enough to compensate. The real problem is I think the super pack for the 25 is meant for space use only (hence a lot of extra thrust for more speed) and the boosters would make it too fast for atmospheric flight, such that the drag that is caused would rip the Valkyrie apart at those speeds possibly. Edited June 20, 2008 by Master Dex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 dont kno really. might get recovered later on if there is no damage to the. But unless the VF-25 has atmospheric armor package the space fast packs are just gonna slow them down. Agreed, it pro'ly doesn't have the best of aerodynamics and isn't light either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastar Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 So does anyone have a frame of the VF-27 equipped wit the fold booster? And Alto when he is equipped wit his fold booster also? wanted to kno if the Fold boosters look the same. Couldn"t catch it by eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy00z Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I imagine the fold boosters in the 27 is in the wing thrusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The fold booster for the 25 was the classic fold booster we've seen in Plus and 7. However the VF-27's external fold booster was different and has colors matching Purple-1. It would seem it doesn't have internal boosters after all as it is being equipped with an external or the internals are broken now for whatever reason. Or perhaps they are only for short range jumps (the battle in ep.7 was said to have taken place only 12 light years away and was said to be a short range fold). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Well considering SK seems to be going the way of B5 with a Fold Booster being required to open a fold gateway, theoretically only one fighter needs one to get a squad into SD Space. You will notice that the GSL and the VF-25 created separate gateways, unlike in past shows where the booster seemed to dissolve the ship into SD Space. Edited June 20, 2008 by Zinjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yeah, it has been apparent for a while the aesthetics of fold travel have been changed as well as the sound. I kind of like this newer form though, makes more sense to me with the idea that comes to mind with the words Space Fold (despite the official explanation in the compendium of it being more like a Space Swap or displacement). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
info600 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Agreed, it pro'ly doesn't have the best of aerodynamics and isn't light either... how bout the armor pack though? cause THAT's heavier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 how bout the armor pack though? cause THAT's heavier... Like I said like 5 posts ago there was a big debate about that in the original mecha/technology thread and it was settled that the armor pack can fly in atmosphere but it probably can only do Gerwalk because it's wings are completely covered and it has no other lifting surfaces. The reason the super pack probably won't work is that it is too much thrust and speed. It's been said that a VF-25 with Armored pack has the same top speed as a VF-25 with no extra add-ons, but a VF-25 with super pack is much faster than both. The reason for this is the armor pack adds a lot more mass but the big boosters compensate for that, however it only allows it to maintain up to its original speed. You may remember in ep.1 when Ozma couldn't keep up with the red Vajra but Gillium was able to catch up to it easily (only to be later squashed by it, but that is a different matter). The Super pack adds mass but not nearly as much and its boosters give it a lot of extra thrust. It is just too much power for atmospheric flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Well considering SK seems to be going the way of B5 with a Fold Booster being required to open a fold gateway, theoretically only one fighter needs one to get a squad into SD Space. That's been more or less the way that it's worked from the start, though - or rather the end result has been the same. Remember that in SDF Macross, the Macross performs a space fold and drags along a good chunk of the city, a number of enemy units, and Hikaru's plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 That's been more or less the way that it's worked from the start, though - or rather the end result has been the same. Remember that in SDF Macross, the Macross performs a space fold and drags along a good chunk of the city, a number of enemy units, and Hikaru's plane. Not really. If things were still the same as SDFM then the Island should have been sucked into the gateway as opposed to being cut away from the sea bed as we saw. However it has been argued that there may be point to point folds and moving folds. It strikes me as odd that we really havent seen folds effects like this before if this were always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Something to think about on that though. In DYRL at one point, I don't know the time index off hand sorry but I could look it up, Breetai's ship does a fold and some point where it seems to glow then stretch out into a line and zoom off before vanishing. However right before the vanishing part there is a pick circular glow that reminds me a lot of the gateway apertures of the folds in Frontier. I'll look up where it is in DYRL and screen cap it, in the meantime though I have to wonder if that was any inspiration for SK on how he made the folds in Frontier (most likely he just picked this method because he decided he wanted the appearance of the space fold to be consistent for once). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Ok I got a screen of the fold in DYRL mentioned in my above post. It is the fold after Roy's death immediately after the Meltrandi attack the Zentradi and which results in Hikaru and Misa becoming stranded on dead Earth. The fold actually happens as the ship glowing for a few secongs and then is sort of speeds off with a bit of a warp effect and disappears in the distance as this pink glow flashed out from the point where the ship vanished. Fold Gateway? The picture is just of the purple glow at the end of the fold after the ship has disappeared so you can no longer see the ship. Still it has me wondering since it looks so similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Focker Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Like I said like 5 posts ago there was a big debate about that in the original mecha/technology thread and it was settled that the armor pack can fly in atmosphere but it probably can only do Gerwalk because it's wings are completely covered and it has no other lifting surfaces. The reason the super pack probably won't work is that it is too much thrust and speed. It's been said that a VF-25 with Armored pack has the same top speed as a VF-25 with no extra add-ons, but a VF-25 with super pack is much faster than both. The reason for this is the armor pack adds a lot more mass but the big boosters compensate for that, however it only allows it to maintain up to its original speed. You may remember in ep.1 when Ozma couldn't keep up with the red Vajra but Gillium was able to catch up to it easily (only to be later squashed by it, but that is a different matter). The Super pack adds mass but not nearly as much and its boosters give it a lot of extra thrust. It is just too much power for atmospheric flight. makes me wonder though why alto (in super packs) struggled to keep up with ozma (in armored) in episode 7. could be that alto with his inexperience was making wide dodges but ozma was just side-stepping as they charged through the vajra frontline. i buy the logic though that super pack > armored pack ~ standard VF-25. but as to the super pack being too fast for atmospheric flight, i'd like to think these things came with a throttle. the motivation for dropping fast packs in an atmosphere could simply be for better maneuverability. sure there are more verniers on the super pack, but in an atmosphere they are probably far less effective and offset by the drag their bulk creates. from a toys perspective, i'm drooling at the prospect of an atmospheric fast pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis_trooper Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Guys check out this pic I saw on another board!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Guys check out this pic I saw on another board!! Nice! Can we confirm whether or not this is official or just fanart (although it's more likely the latter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Focker Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 this popped up a few weeks ago in the models forum. consensus seems that it is fanart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 this popped up a few weeks ago in the models forum. consensus seems that it is fanart. The question now is how accurate is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guld Goa Bowman Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 makes me wonder though why alto (in super packs) struggled to keep up with ozma (in armored) in episode 7. could be that alto with his inexperience was making wide dodges but ozma was just side-stepping as they charged through the vajra frontline. i buy the logic though that super pack > armored pack ~ standard VF-25. but as to the super pack being too fast for atmospheric flight, i'd like to think these things came with a throttle. the motivation for dropping fast packs in an atmosphere could simply be for better maneuverability. sure there are more verniers on the super pack, but in an atmosphere they are probably far less effective and offset by the drag their bulk creates. from a toys perspective, i'm drooling at the prospect of an atmospheric fast pack I'm not sure if this is correct but I believe the armored packs are faster and more manuverable than the super packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 (edited) I'm not sure if this is correct but I believe the armored packs are faster and more manuverable than the super packs. I don't think you're right on that one judging from what was already said about Gilliam being able to keep up with the red Vajra in episode 1 while Ozma couldn't attain that level of speed. I think the reason why Alto isn't able to keep up with Ozma in episode 7 is because he's still 'green' and this is his first real combat. He's just having trouble adapting I think ~Bowen Edited June 21, 2008 by Bowen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 (edited) Guys check out this pic I saw on another board!! I saw it in 4Chan a while ago... Damned good fan art... I don't think you're right on that one judging from what was already said about Gilliam being able to keep up with the red Vajra in episode 1 while Ozma couldn't attain that level of speed. I think the reason why Alto isn't able to keep up with Ozma in episode 7 is because he's still 'green' and this is his first real combat. He's just having trouble adapting I think ~Bowen I just can't wait to see Ozma hand Brera his own ass... Man... I just hope he doesn't die in the process... (And I mean Ozma... screw cocky Brera). Edited June 23, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I just can't wait to see Ozma hand Brera his own ass... Man... I just hope he doesn't die in the process... (And I mean Ozma... screw cocky Brera). He just has to make sure he stays away from any pineapple salad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsain Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I don't think you're right on that one judging from what was already said about Gilliam being able to keep up with the red Vajra in episode 1 while Ozma couldn't attain that level of speed. I think the reason why Alto isn't able to keep up with Ozma in episode 7 is because he's still 'green' and this is his first real combat. He's just having trouble adapting I think I think the problem with the full armor system is its acceleration. In Ep7, the whole squadron (or flight) was already up to speed when they attacked. In Ep1, Ozma had to accelerate from a full stop in the asteroids, while Gilliam was already flying about at speed. Normally we're used to a VF transforming and zooming off in a heartbeat, but look at how long it takes Ozma to get out of those asteroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka_Z Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 (edited) I think the problem with the full armor system is its acceleration. In Ep7, the whole squadron (or flight) was already up to speed when they attacked. In Ep1, Ozma had to accelerate from a full stop in the asteroids, while Gilliam was already flying about at speed. Normally we're used to a VF transforming and zooming off in a heartbeat, but look at how long it takes Ozma to get out of those asteroids. I have to agree with this... if the super and armored packs use the same thrusters, it is likely that ozma's armored valk can indeed reach the same velocity as the super/alto. it would however take forever and a day in comparision to get to that speed, and use substantially more propellant to do so. granted, if macross fusion turbines have the specific impulse performance I suspect, even a factor of 10 difference in fuel requirements wouldn't add up to much relative to the full mass of the fighter (I am presuming that the turbines of the frontier era have at least 35kiloseconds of Isp when using hydrogen as propellant). for the uninitiated, Isp (specific impulse) is a measure of the effective exhaust velocity an engine imparts to the propellant it uses. its a principal term of the classic rocket equation, which defines how much propellant mass a vehicle has to expel to reach a desired velocity. higher numbers are better - for example the space shuttle main engines have an Isp of roughly 440 seconds, while the Solid boosters run about 300 seconds (dont ask me what that makes the average Isp - its more math than I want to do right now). total mass of propellant required to accelerate the shuttle to orbital velocity = roughly 11.5x the shuttle's dry mass including any non-propellant cargo or passengers. with an Isp value of 1100 seconds, a vehicle would only need to expel a mass of propellant equal to its' own. before the YF-19 and 21, fusion turbine Isp was just not high enough to allow a valk to carry enough propellant to reach orbital/escape velocity and maintain combat capability. It should be noted however that all valks since the VF-1 have been able to reach space without the use of booster packs - they just havent been able to do so *and* either 1) reach orbital/escape velocity and/or 2)do anything much other than dock at a station or land on a ship once they get there. this puts even the first gen engines on the VF-1 series at an Isp of at least 2500-3000 seconds of Isp. Edited June 23, 2008 by Shaka_Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 That image is a fan art, can be found here at pixiv.net (needs Japanese registration). This one is also good. FV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 It should be noted however that all valks since the VF-1 have been able to reach space without the use of booster packs - they just havent been able to do so *and* either 1) reach orbital/escape velocity and/or 2)do anything much other than dock at a station or land on a ship once they get there. this puts even the first gen engines on the VF-1 series at an Isp of at least 2500-3000 seconds of Isp. The VF-1 could reach space, it's just that it would take a while as compared to blasting off with a booster. If time were not a factor, it could easily reach the outer atmosphere and beyond, it would just take a while, since it's fuel (air) is in abundant supply. In space it would have range limitations as it needs to carry its own propellant gas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy00z Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 That image is a fan art, can be found here at pixiv.net (needs Japanese registration). This one is also good. FV I don't know how to navigate to sign up. Can you post the 2nd one on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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