Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread II *Read 1st Post*

[Mr March]

Master Dex

Me too It just really links well with the fictional tech. The glow doesn't really bother me. It could be excess energy bleeding out of the weapon. More likely, it's just an effect to make the knife appear more deadly. Like you said, it's likely overpowered in order to cut through similarly powered energy converting armor.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Master Dex

Me too It just really links well with the fictional tech. The glow doesn't really bother me. It could be excess energy bleeding out of the weapon. More likely, it's just an effect to make the knife appear more deadly. Like you said, it's likely overpowered in order to cut through similarly powered energy converting armor.

More and more I'm convinced the knife/blade in both the VF-25 and VF-27 have an energy shield... That's why they glow and why they are placed on the shield... Time will tell...

-Second, it seems that like the YV-21/VF-22, the intakes form part of the chest in battroid and not the legs.

-There's a bit of text down there with the words VF-22, anyone care to translate?

Doesn't surprise me at all, since both the VF-22 and the VF-27 were developed by General Galaxy...

Btw, check the shoulders in these 2 mechas...

As posted by somebody else in the news thread, I believe that the VF-27 is intended as a capital ship/fighter interceptor mecha, while the VF-25 is more of a multipurpose fighter... The VF-27 is incredibly fast and (as revealed in episode 10) not even a human in ex-gear can survive its speed. It must be VR controlled by distance or manned by cyborgs (Brera?) or both (cyborg inside controlling it through VR imaging). As powerful as it is, it seemed to have a pretty rough time in close combat though...

I can't wait to see Luca hack into one of these things!!!!

Edited June 6, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Beltane70]

-There's a bit of text down there with the words VF-22, anyone care to translate?

I believe it mentions that the VF-27 has a silhoutte similar to the VF-22.

[d3v]

As posted by somebody else in the news thread, I believe that the VF-27 is intended as a capital ship/fighter interceptor mecha, while the VF-25 is more of a multipurpose fighter... The VF-27 is incredibly fast and (as revealed in episode 10) not even a human in ex-gear can survive its speed. It must be VR controlled by distance or manned by cyborgs (Brera?) or both (cyborg inside controlling it through VR imaging). As powerful as it is, it seemed to have a pretty rough time in close combat though...

Hmm, so in other words, its built for speed and accelerates like no ones business, but the 25 is more or less built to handle and can turn on a dime?

As for the shoulders... mounting points for speakers?

Edited June 7, 2008 by d3v

[taksraven]

Taken from the news thread.

While it's a bit fuzzy and not clear enough to actually nitpick over, there are a few noticeable details.

Well lookee there, its got a SWORD coming out of its arm!!!!! HA!! I said that this idea would work with some of the Valks. ( I know that I was mainly talking about the VF-25, but this still vindicates my idea to an extent.)

Taksraven

Edited June 7, 2008 by taksraven

[junior]

Well lookee there, its got a SWORD coming out of its arm!!!!! HA!! I said that this idea would work with some of the Valks. ( I know that I was mainly talking about the VF-25, but this still vindicates my idea to an extent.)

I'd have to doublecheck, but iirc you can see it glowing in episode 9.

Of course, Alto has Brera's arms pinned so Brera is unable to use it.

[Kronnang Dunn]

I'd have to doublecheck, but iirc you can see it glowing in episode 9.

Of course, Alto has Brera's arms pinned so Brera is unable to use it.

Cant't wait to see Brera use it to cut Vajra to pieces with it.

Btw... did anybody here noticed how Brera also has a similar small blade concealed on his right forearm? He used it to cut the Griphon/Hydra in half in episode 10...

I just noticed in one of the Newtype magazine scans from the News thread that Brera also has a helmet. Maybe he puts the helmet on when entering the VF-27 and then he connects/interfaces with the VF-27 control system through VR imaging. Maybe that's why the cockpit seems so big and funky colored at the end of episode 7...

Edited June 7, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[junior]

He hasn't appeared to be wearing a helmet so far. It might just be for EVA activities.

[Major Focker]

what bothers me is why Brera is wearing heels

[junior]

Those are boots!

More seriously, cowboy boots and the like general have a pronounced heel like that. You can't use stirrups without the heel.

I'm not sure why Brera would have them. But there's nothing overly unusual about a male with boots like that. It's possible that they have something to do with the foot control setup in the VF-27. iirc, there's loop around each leg when he's in the plane. Presumeably they're to hold his legs in place while he's piloting, which suggests that the position of his feet is important. The boots might have something to do with this.

[Major Focker]

looked like pumps to me

i've got cowboy boots, but the heels are nowhere near as tall as his

[grss1982]

what bothers me is why Brera is wearing heels

YOU just took the words right out of my mouth.

Also does Brera have a knife that seems to be integrated with his arm in the above picture posted by Kronnang Dunn?

[Graham]

Also does Brera have a knife that seems to be integrated with his arm in the above picture posted by Kronnang Dunn?

I'm guessing you haven't watched episode 10 yet?

Graham

[grss1982]

I'm guessing you haven't watched episode 10 yet?

Graham

YEP.

Still waiting for the AiA-IZ or Lunar subs.

[Morpheus]

Recycled?

[wolfx]

Sorry if this was mentioned before but in ep 7 when Ozma locks into multiple enemies, is it necessary to gain the target locks with his eyes other than the standard "cuz it looks cool"? I'd figure the computer should just lock on to all the enemies automatically.

In fact probably same should apply to the missiles that Roy shot down with the VF-0S in Macross Zero.....

Thinking of moving my eyeballs around like that makes me dizzy.

[Mr March]

Brera is wearing cowboy boots. I can almost guarantee it. The styling of his boots looks very western. The tall heels are indicative of the "cowboy heel" styled boot which have much higher heels specifically more useful for riding than the the more common form of walking heel you find in store bought boots. Given all the western undertones permeating throughout Macross Frontier - like the covered wagon-style Islands of the fleet, the "frontier", not to mention giving Brera Sterne a harmonica - it's almost certainly cowboy boots he's wearing.

Kronnang Dunn

Yes, statistics on that knife would really be helpful.

grss1982

The subtitles that are being released are fast, but quite engrishy and rough. I don't blame you for waiting

Edited June 8, 2008 by Mr March

[Heron]

YEP.

Still waiting for the AiA-IZ or Lunar subs.

Or inferring something.

[d3v]

Sorry if this was mentioned before but in ep 7 when Ozma locks into multiple enemies, is it necessary to gain the target locks with his eyes other than the standard "cuz it looks cool"? I'd figure the computer should just lock on to all the enemies automatically.

In fact probably same should apply to the missiles that Roy shot down with the VF-0S in Macross Zero.....

Thinking of moving my eyeballs around like that makes me dizzy.

The computer is already tracking each and every target within sensor range and it's probably possible to get the computer to lock onto everything too. However, I figure the eyeball thing is there when you need to be more specific with your targets, in Ozma's case, he's probably picking out targets that either, have the ebst chance of getting hit or pose the greatest threat, based on instinct and experience.

As for moving your eyeballs around, it's simply a matter of focusing on the object, you're eyes do it multiple times everyday, you just don't notice.

Edited June 8, 2008 by d3v

[Master Dex]

Eye tracking is more useful than having the computer lock on to everything because as d3v said you can be more specific. The computer will just lock on to the easiest to hit targets or what is closest I bet. Also eye tracking is real technology, but not nearly as advanced as that yet (considering that is 50 years from now), and compared to the way we have to lock on now it is a lot nicer. Of course it looks also looks really cool when Ozma does it. .

[Valkyrie addict]

what this whole 'sword' business being talk on the VF-27?? I certainly haven't noticed anything resembling a sword on the valk

[Mr March]

The picture from the Newtype magazine shows a rear view of the VF-27 Battroid. A blade is shown extended from the front of the shield.

[Zinjo]

Recycled?

More like a homage to Zero.

Hey Brera and Nora had the same autobody painter!

[wolfx]

The computer is already tracking each and every target within sensor range and it's probably possible to get the computer to lock onto everything too. However, I figure the eyeball thing is there when you need to be more specific with your targets, in Ozma's case, he's probably picking out targets that either, have the ebst chance of getting hit or pose the greatest threat, based on instinct and experience.

As for moving your eyeballs around, it's simply a matter of focusing on the object, you're eyes do it multiple times everyday, you just don't notice.

That makes sense except in those situations its better if the targetting computer just locks onto everything. Why be specific when releasing a missile volley? Same with Macross Zero, why choose missiles when you'd wanna shoot all of them down? (starting with the closest proximity of course)

Focusing on 40-50 objects individually in a span of few seconds? Don't think our eyes can do that. But perhaps Ozma just had to focus only on the distance from a firing arc specified by his eyes and the targetting computer targets all targets in that range and viscinity.

[azrael]

That makes sense except in those situations its better if the targetting computer just locks onto everything. Why be specific when releasing a missile volley? Same with Macross Zero, why choose missiles when you'd wanna shoot all of them down? (starting with the closest proximity of course)

Focusing on 40-50 objects individually in a span of few seconds? Don't think our eyes can do that. But perhaps Ozma just had to focus only on the distance from a firing arc specified by his eyes and the targetting computer targets all targets in that range and viscinity.

Or perhaps Ozma was just going on manual targeting.

[Isamu Starkiller]

"Ozma you've switched off your targeting computer is everything alright?"

[Alastar]

That makes sense except in those situations its better if the targetting computer just locks onto everything. Why be specific when releasing a missile volley? Same with Macross Zero, why choose missiles when you'd wanna shoot all of them down? (starting with the closest proximity of course)

Focusing on 40-50 objects individually in a span of few seconds? Don't think our eyes can do that. But perhaps Ozma just had to focus only on the distance from a firing arc specified by his eyes and the targetting computer targets all targets in that range and viscinity.

The Targeting system has to be extreamly sensitive. When we use our eyes to id something we look at markers on the object. Our eyes run in patterns and when u look at Ozama in that ep, he follows a patten of i guess enemies who pose the most threat. Cuz the rest he guns down with no problem.

[ChronoReverse]

I've never liked the idea of the eye tracking thing even back in Zero and I still don't like it now as presented.

Unless the interface has access to your brain signals, there's no good way to indicate what you're looking at should be targeted. It can't be anything my gaze sweeps over since if I go from A to C, where the view is [A B C], I'll include B. Do I have to be careful to steer my eyes around that? How do you do that for a cloud of 50? Suppose I press a control to indicate what I'm looking at is to be targeted. Does that mean I'll have to do 50 clicks in a second on a single control? That's a lot of split second decisions. While flying and making a lot of other split second decisions.

What I could see as being useful is a combination of the eye tracking and a button on the controls. It'll be similar to drawing a box to select with a mouse except it takes your gaze instead. Instead of the far-fetched individual targeting of each missile in a swarm, clusters of missiles are treated as a single object in terms of selection and thus targeted. It would of course require refined computer algorithms to be practical but it would provide greater granularity without putting too much burden on the pilot's concentration.

Edited June 9, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[Master Dex]

Like I said, fighters of today do have eye tracking cameras, they just aren't used to the extent Macross has had them used yet. However they are designed for this purpose and they are probably working on a system that isn't as simple as it may look.

[azrael]

"Ozma you've switched off your targeting computer is everything alright?"

Bingo.

[ChronoReverse]

Like I said, fighters of today do have eye tracking cameras, they just aren't used to the extent Macross has had them used yet. However they are designed for this purpose and they are probably working on a system that isn't as simple as it may look.

The issue isn't tracking the movements of the eye. That's simple enough and really is just an engineering issue. The problem is the selection process.

For it to be fine-grained it would be putting more burden on the pilot instead of reducing it. But if you add advanced heuristics then the control of the pilot is less. The latter is not a bad thing but it's the opposite of what's shown in Macross.

Edited June 9, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[d3v]

I figure that while the system does actively track where the pilot is looking, there's a switch to make it lock on to a target. If you notice, in ep. 7, Ozma readies the missiles first before targeting.

However, as theorized in the Valkyrie movement thread, tracking where the pilot is looking is probably part of how the computer interprets the pilots inputs into movements. In other words, the computer "tags" whatever the pilot is focusing on, and translates any stick/pedal movements into motion.

Edited June 9, 2008 by d3v

[junior]

It may also take a lot of practice to be able to use properly. So far we've seen just two pilots use the system, and both of them were vets.

[d3v]

It may also take a lot of practice to be able to use properly. So far we've seen just two pilots use the system, and both of them were vets.

It shouldn't take that much practice since all the pilot has to do is look at something, something our eyes do naturally. It's as simple as say looking out the window and looking at every car in the parking lot. The only majr thing experience would bring would be the speed of which Ozma and Roy can do it.

[junior]

It shouldn't take that much practice since all the pilot has to do is look at something, something our eyes do naturally. It's as simple as say looking out the window and looking at every car in the parking lot. The only majr thing experience would bring would be the speed of which Ozma and Roy can do it.

On the one hand, yes it's simple. On the other hand, you may have to learn how to focus your eyes properly (i.e. so you don't get distracted by another nearby target), and recognize just how long to focus in order to lock the target without spending any more time than is absolutely necessary.

So yeah, on the surface it's easy. On the other hand, so far we've only seen two people do it - Ozma and Roy. So there might be complications that aren't readily apparent.