Radd Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Oh, come on. Its a pretty bloody weird character design element (we are not just talking about weird hair) and I think its a fair question. No need to take the piss like that. Taksraven Don't take it that way, I was just being silly, and have been watching far too much Invader Zim lately. Seriously, though, it doesn't stand out to me as anything more than a stylistic choice by the character designer. I wouldn't read too deeply into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegas Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I too wonder about the 19, by this time it would have been the main fighter for the U.N. Spacey for about 12 to 13 years at least. However we should take into account the apparent change in government as it is now New U.N. Spacey or N.U.N.S. Perhaps the new government didn't want to produce the 19 any further for whatever reason. Regardless we know the VF-171 just came into service in 2058, so it's new. If I were to conjecture, which I am, I'd say the 171 didn't replace the 19, but the VF-25 project was designed to replace the VF-19, and as a result we see S.M.S. is testing out the VF-25 (which I am curious why it is not YF-25 in this case). On this path I believe perhaps the VF-19 is still around, but Frontier simply doesn't have any or doesn't use them. Hey if we're lucky we may see a VF-19 pop in some time to show off how it looks in CG, and if we are really lucky it will be joined by a VF-22 which I believe was only a special forces fighter last we saw it, so it can still be around. maybe the galaxy fleet use vf-19's and 22's as their fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 maybe the galaxy fleet use vf-19's and 22's as their fighters. It's always possible, if so I'd imagine we'd find out this week in ep.7, but I get the feeling since Galaxy is said to be a sister fleet to Frontier than it is not as likely as they are probably very similar (despite people saying Galaxy isn't a dome ship, I don't know why people think that). I would imagine that Earth and Eden both see the use of VF-19's and maybe VF-22's still and some fleets probably do use them, such as Macross 7 and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Uh... yeah.. i can't take you seriously now. GitS had spotty animation on several episodes and Escaflowne used the same sketchy/fluid animation style during fight scenes that you guys are all complaining about in MF, even in the Movie. The ending of the movie had a wierd ass looking Van and hitomi and there's no way you can deny that. Neither can i take you seriously, frankly. GiTS? Go take a screen cap that looks something like this and I will believe you. Lets zoom in so you can be clear where i'm getting at. Did the major ever looked like that? No. Did Horo looked like that in an episode? No. Did Van or Hitomi ever looked like that? No. (unless you are complaining about their long nosed char designs which were abit strange but at least its consistent) Spice and Wolf was consistent... consistently sub par. Simple chracter designs and stiff animation. And gundam 00? Talking/screaming heads for 70% of the time and battles consisting of nothing more than: 1. dynamic action pose! 2. screaming head shot 3. action lines around head 4. flying towards enemy in a static pose 5. cool posed shot of gundam while enemy falls apart, explodes. LOL....again. Show me screenshots of 00 characters looking like the screenshots above. The things you complain about in 00 seem to be more of gundam stylistics rather than the animation and art quality. That's Gundam....and that's how they animate their battle scenes. It doesn't make it a "bad animation". Now lets move on from the 00 talk cause you clearly missed the point. I never said the animation was on a downward trend, in fact I'm pointing out that the animation will go up and down contrary to what you guys think about ep 1-5 and then 6. The animation in ep 4 was the same or worse than ep 6. I'm saying be optimistic, it will improve and the more important stories will get better animation as the show goes on and their weekly budget changes depending on what they need to do here and there. This is nothing new. Just think of it as being like the original Macross. You get horrible animation for a few episodes all the time only for them to pull out all the stops for the big ones. I think i'm cynical that after watching alot of anime, a quality drop in more than 3 episodes usually means it won't recover from it...or at least there will be much more episodes that will be of that quality. But oh well....there's hope for fans. Apparently some DVD releases will patch up the animation and art that was bad in the TV series, just like the Nanoha StrikerS series which seriously on all account had real bad quality drops....but fixed in the DVD release. (sadly no one can save it from the bad pacing and plot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 To the Mods: I'd like to put in a request (I dont even know if that's allowed but here it goes anyway ) Can we have a dedicated thread to discuss the animation portion of Frontier, whether if it's CGI, 2D etc? There seems to be enough interest in the topic, and honestly I think we can kill 2 birds with the same stone: 1- The Episode threads wont get cluttered with the discussion. 2- The people that are getting annoyed or getting turned off by this topic can ignore it altogether. Let us know if it's possible, Thanks! I second this request. great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wumzi Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Well I certainly don't mind the VF-171. I *loved* the VF-17; and I think the VF-171 is just a great (Indeed I want more VF171 mecha porn please...). But I just got to wonder considered how the VF19 was supposed to be the next big thing and al -Sergorn I seem to remember someone mentioning this in another thread. The reason why Kawamori chose the VF-17 over the 19 is that the 19 looks very similar to the 25, and he wanted people to differentiate between the fighters easily. Heck, take a VF-25, make the wings sweep forward, and you'd think it's a VF-19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grss1982 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) To the Mods: I'd like to put in a request (I dont even know if that's allowed but here it goes anyway ) Can we have a dedicated thread to discuss the animation portion of Frontier, whether if it's CGI, 2D etc? There seems to be enough interest in the topic, and honestly I think we can kill 2 birds with the same stone: 1- The Episode threads wont get cluttered with the discussion. 2- The people that are getting annoyed or getting turned off by this topic can ignore it altogether. Let us know if it's possible, Thanks! I support for this suggestion. :-) VF-171 going to combat, change to battroid and gerwalk, after that I don't care whether it blew up or survived Agreed about them blowing up next episode, but please SK show us some VF-171 Battroid and Gerwalk pr0n for crying out loud. . It's always possible, if so I'd imagine we'd find out this week in ep.7, but I get the feeling since Galaxy is said to be a sister fleet to Frontier than it is not as likely as they are probably very similar (despite people saying Galaxy isn't a dome ship, I don't know why people think that). I would imagine that Earth and Eden both see the use of VF-19's and maybe VF-22's still and some fleets probably do use them, such as Macross 7 and such. More Mecha Fan Service. If they do show up that is. Edited May 14, 2008 by grss1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 You know, while I love looking at Klan Klan, I can't help but try to avoid this thread now since it seems half of you are doing nothing but complaining about the animation. Can we talk about aspects of the story? Characters? Plot? Anything except the quality of the animation? They're doing US a favor in making this show, can we stop crapping all over them? which is why i strongly agree with Tobi54's suggestion that a new sticky thread be opened that focuses entirely on the animation quality of the entire Macross Frontier series. truth be told, the episode thread is getting cluttered with discussions on animation. sure, a discussion on the animation would fall under the paramters of "episode discussion", but by now isn't it getting repetitive already? And by now, we already know who is on either side of the fence on the animation discussion, so should we really go through this discussion for each episode? and in the meantime some members, like misaforever, would rather ignore the thread instead of backreading for so many animations discussions. And also, the discussion on animation is also bringing in OT discussions on gundam 00 (yes, it seems to be turning into a Gundam 00 vs. Macross Frontier thread, based on the many arguments i have read). Mods, a little help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisaForever Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Lets zoom in so you can be clear where i'm getting at. Are you seriously zooming in on characters in the background? Is that what you do when you watch anime? FOR GOODNESS SAKES JUST WATCH THE SHOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisaForever Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 which is why i strongly agree with Tobi54's suggestion that a new sticky thread be opened that focuses entirely on the animation quality of the entire Macross Frontier series. truth be told, the episode thread is getting cluttered with discussions on animation. sure, a discussion on the animation would fall under the paramters of "episode discussion", but by now isn't it getting repetitive already? And by now, we already know who is on either side of the fence on the animation discussion, so should we really go through this discussion for each episode? and in the meantime some members, like misaforever, would rather ignore the thread instead of backreading for so many animations discussions. And also, the discussion on animation is also bringing in OT discussions on gundam 00 (yes, it seems to be turning into a Gundam 00 vs. Macross Frontier thread, based on the many arguments i have read). Mods, a little help? Yes I do agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 which is why i strongly agree with Tobi54's suggestion that a new sticky thread be opened that focuses entirely on the animation quality of the entire Macross Frontier series. truth be told, the episode thread is getting cluttered with discussions on animation. sure, a discussion on the animation would fall under the paramters of "episode discussion", but by now isn't it getting repetitive already? And by now, we already know who is on either side of the fence on the animation discussion, so should we really go through this discussion for each episode? and in the meantime some members, like misaforever, would rather ignore the thread instead of backreading for so many animations discussions. And also, the discussion on animation is also bringing in OT discussions on gundam 00 (yes, it seems to be turning into a Gundam 00 vs. Macross Frontier thread, based on the many arguments i have read). Mods, a little help? As flattered as i am that a new sticky thread be made to house my personal whinings, i don't think it necessary. But agreed that eugimon has gone OT with his comparisons that do not relate to the issue at hand and my rebuttals and cluttered the thread somewhat. But as far as I am concerned, I have said what i have to say and already content that at least some people have finally noticed the drop of quality that I have noticed since ep 3 when previously it was "what quality drop? It looks GORGEOUS. DECULTURE EVEN...". Onward to ep 7. If the quality drops even more, then MAYBE i'll make a dedicated thread to bashing it. Up to the mods to sticky it or not. Don't get me wrong. I still love macross and i still like Frontier. Just wished it could be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 With all due respect to everyone, I don't think this is an issue that requires the hammer to come down. The discussion of animation quality, however annoying to some, is maintaining a relatively civil level of debate. There's simply no need to start moderating the hell out everything. There is already a rather uncomfortable level of moderation , but I'm going to write that off to the fact that it's a busy time for Macross World and all that baggage. Moral of the story: discuss what you want and allow others to do the same. When something truly gets out of hand, believe me, we'll all know it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Did the major ever looked like that? No. Did Horo looked like that in an episode? No. Did Van or Hitomi ever looked like that? No. (unless you are complaining about their long nosed char designs which were abit strange but at least its consistent) I think this should be considered more of a soft focus treatment, Also there's a lot of movement directing you away from the people in the backgrounds lets face it people its animation and the shots are set up to attract your eye to a certain part of the screen, your not supposed to be focused on Ranka so why draw her perfect in this shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Are you seriously zooming in on characters in the background? Is that what you do when you watch anime? FOR GOODNESS SAKES JUST WATCH THE SHOW! Sorry for being critical. Truth be told i don't "zoom in" on anything. I watch the show, notice something odd....then backtrack to see what's wrong. Just call it my "wolf-sense" (like spider sense...) That zoomed pic was just to prove a point. Its not like i'm nitpicking and looking for faults in anime. And Ranka is not a background character (like klanklan is). She's the lead for cryin out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisaForever Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Sorry for being critical. Truth be told i don't "zoom in" on anything. I watch the show, notice something odd....then backtrack to see what's wrong. Just call it my "wolf-sense" (like spider sense...) That zoomed pic was just to prove a point. Its not like i'm nitpicking and looking for faults in anime. And Ranka is not a background character (like klanklan is). She's the lead for cryin out loud. Silly Klan. I meant background as IN the background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) yup she's way in the back of this shot! Edited May 14, 2008 by Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Silly Klan. I meant background as IN the background. I know what you mean. Klan IS IN the background most of the time too, you know. (another one of my "cons" of the show) I think this should be considered more of a soft focus treatment, Also there's a lot of movement directing you away from the people in the backgrounds lets face it people its animation and the shots are set up to attract your eye to a certain part of the screen, your not supposed to be focused on Ranka so why draw her perfect in this shot? Why draw her face at all. Leave a blank face with no eyes and mouth there like some anime do (for artistic reasons). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 ... Still things could be worse... We could be sitting here discussing how they used the same animation over and over and over and over and over and over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Why draw her face at all. Leave a blank face with no eyes and mouth there like some anime do (for artistic reasons). If that was the case I'd almost guarantee people would be on here complaining about the shortcuts the Satellite took on not even filling in people's faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Ok, my "absolutely awesome" review a while back was just a short one right after watching. here are a few more comments i have for ep 6: 1. Finally, a macross battleship launching!! whoo! I am so excited about this one. i wonder what other weapons it has aside from the transformation. perhaps a perfected barrier system? or even a PPBS with a thousand pinpoints? haha. the name lacks some muster, though. but still, i'll wait until i see it in action. will it take no quarters? or will its performance be 1/4 of my expectations? hehe. 2. I don't think this is one of those eps i would skip over. i have said before that for me, sometimes the SDFM episodes with the greatest emotional interactions are the most memorable. This episode had the feel of SDFM before the final space war (minmei preparing for her performance, hikaru and minmei saying goodbyes) or DYRL (hikaru looking for minmei togive her the song). My point being.. this episode is POWERFUL. not action-based awesome, but character-based powerful. and to see it all with sheryl's song and farewell concert in the background. specially if you listen to the lyrics. wow. 3. The first meeting of the Ranka fan club, while funny, is quite tense given the sudden awkwardness between ranka and alto . The meeting between alto and sheryl was very touching, and, more than ever, shows sheryl opening up to another person (when she revealed that she hated her life in macross galaxy). Giving alto the earring as a lucky charm was a nice additional touch. 4. Catherine Glass suddenly taking over as operator gave me goosebumps! I always felt there was someone missing from the bridge crew, and now it suddenly comes full circle with the addition of catherine glass. sure it's misa all over again, but it sure is fun to see how she'll do as bridge operator. 5. really nice touch to have Ozma BEGGING the manager to take care of her sister. haha. i loved it. I don't think he's gonna die in the next episode. it's too early, it wouldn't make sense yet. 6. My fave episode so far! A set-up episode which, potentially, could be even greater than the episode it is setting up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Well they don't really spread people out enough to drop the detail completely out. Though I have noticed they seem to be trying to fake some pretty extreme camera lenses which gives some shots some interesting looks. Though I didn't really equate that to any of the odd shots in this episode... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 With all due respect to everyone, I don't think this is an issue that requires the hammer to come down. The discussion of animation quality, however annoying to some, is maintaining a relatively civil level of debate. There's simply no need to start moderating the hell out everything. There is already a rather uncomfortable level of moderation , but I'm going to write that off to the fact that it's a busy time for Macross World and all that baggage. Moral of the story: discuss what you want and allow others to do the same. When something truly gets out of hand, believe me, we'll all know it i don't think i was espousing any kind of hammer-down or censorship of any kind. you talk as if i was trying to silence any comments on animation. i am certainly not. neither am i saying that the discussion and debate have gotten out of hand. I see the value in the discussion. i am merely suggesting opening a different thread for it, where it could be delved into with more focus. a thread where, for instance, i could post 100 screencaps from one episode to prove a point, and i wouldn't get any flak for it. or a thread where i could compare a MF episode with gundam00 or crayon fracking shin chan for all it's worth, and it wouldn't be offtopic. more focused discussion is always better, imo. if there's a sticky thread for mecha for each episode, why not for animation? by NOT opening a sticky thread, we could actually be LIMITING the extent of the opinions on animation that some members would like to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) Back to episode 6 discussion....... What happen to the Galaxy scout ship which fold to Frontier last episode? I was hoping they show the pilot and some info of that scout ship (darn teaser). And yeah, I'm Ranka Lee fan club member no.5 (After Nanase, Michael, Luca and Alto) Reason for edit: Post below :^^ Edited May 14, 2008 by Morpheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Back to episode 6 discussion....... What happen to the Galaxy scout ship which fold to Frontier last episode? I was hoping they show the pilot and some info of that scout ship (darn teaser). And yeah, I'm Ranka Lee fan club member no.4 (After Nanase, Michael, Luca and Alto) I would assume Lt. Wilan (I believe that was his name) was taken on board. As to whether he needed medical attention is unknown, however he probably was never meant to be a character of significance, despite giving us a name. Wouldn't that make you the 5th member, seeing as you listed 4 members there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 5. really nice touch to have Ozma BEGGING the manager to take care of her sister. haha. i loved it. I don't think he's gonna die in the next episode. it's too early, it wouldn't make sense yet. To be more precise, he was mustering all his strength to say "Take care of my sister". That was really funny. He was clearly against the idea but to pander to his sister's dreams, awww...."onii-chan no DAIIIII SUKI". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 i don't think i was espousing any kind of hammer-down or censorship of any kind. you talk as if i was trying to silence any comments on animation. i am certainly not. neither am i saying that the discussion and debate have gotten out of hand. I see the value in the discussion. i am merely suggesting opening a different thread for it, where it could be delved into with more focus. a thread where, for instance, i could post 100 screencaps from one episode to prove a point, and i wouldn't get any flak for it. or a thread where i could compare a MF episode with gundam00 or crayon fracking shin chan for all it's worth, and it wouldn't be offtopic. more focused discussion is always better, imo. if there's a sticky thread for mecha for each episode, why not for animation? by NOT opening a sticky thread, we could actually be LIMITING the extent of the opinions on animation that some members would like to post. IMO, it's not necessary. Like I said, starting that kind of thing is just going to complicate and snowball the issue. There's already too many pinned threads. This topic should suffice (and that's what it's for). As for mecha, Macross Frontier is a mecha show and technical talk is not only to be expected, but encouraged. Some of us are running websites on the subject and need all the help we can get. I don't see any Macross fansites devoted to the animation quality of Macross Frontier (and thank gawd for that ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I don't see any Macross fansites devoted to the animation quality of Macross Frontier (and thank gawd for that ). AMEN!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Neither can i take you seriously, frankly. GiTS? Go take a screen cap that looks something like this and I will believe you. You'll have to forgive us if we don't jump up and comb through a combined 52 episodes of Stand Alone Complex looking for that single background cel of any given cast member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 To be more precise, he was mustering all his strength to say "Take care of my sister". That was really funny. He was clearly against the idea but to pander to his sister's dreams, awww...."onii-chan no DAIIIII SUKI". Exactly! haha, it made that scene so much funnier to see him that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 You'll have to forgive us if we don't jump up and comb through a combined 52 episodes of Stand Alone Complex looking for that single background cel of any given cast member. Oh...its just onecel that most people will miss it? I forgive you then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeszekely Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Continuing the discussion of the VF-25/VF-171 vs. the VF-19/VF-22, Kawamori's only given us his real reasoning. In-continuity, we're just left with speculation, so here's mine: When the UN Spacy became NUNS, NUNS might have been less than satisfied with the VF-19, and canceled the old Spacy's contract. We know for a fact that the YF-19 was difficult to fly, and I don't know what changes were made between between the YF-19 and the VF-19A that would have made a difference. As for the VF-19F/S, they obviously had significant revisions, and were just starting to enter service five years after Super Nova. The VF-19F/S, with its stubby little wings, might not have had the atmospheric performance they wanted. Wasn't that one of the reasons the VF-4 was dumped for the VF-5000? Another thing to consider, using the US military branches as a model, is that different NUN military branches might be buying different variable fighters (just like how the Navy and the Air Force operate different planes), and even within a single branch multiple fighters could be in use (just like how the USAF is using the F-22, F-15, and F-16, in addition to bombers and other aircraft lacking the F designation). Frontier could be using the VF-171 because it's easy to fly and maintain, and perhaps requires less resources on the part of a fleet that gets minimal resupply, but for all we know forces on Eden or Earth are stocked with the VF-19. As for the VF-22, it's not that surprising that we're not seeing it. Even though Max, Milia, and Diamond Force managed to get some, it was always clear that the VF-19 won Super Nova and that the UN would be buying VF-22s in very small numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treatment Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) OT, but... Oh...its just onecel that most people will miss it? I forgive you then. hmm. I already destroyed my copies of the broadcast/fansubs, but how about this quick one that actually got included into the actual dvd-version itself: Iirc, there were a number of misdrawings and stuff in both GitS-SAC's 1st-Gig and 2nd-Gig during the broadcast-run that were eventually mostly cleaned-up/improved in the dvd-version. Guess the one I attached didn't get improved on. As such, quite a number of us here already stated that Frontier's stuff ain't really that bad for a broadcast-version of an anime, so try not to get your collective panties in a bunch. Edited May 14, 2008 by treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madeyoulook Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 So is Alto a common Japanese name or is it a Spanish name that was given to him? Since Alto means high in Spanish, as in flying high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Neither can i take you seriously, frankly. GiTS? Go take a screen cap that looks something like this and I will believe you. Lets zoom in so you can be clear where i'm getting at. I think it was these two objects that you were meant to be zooming in on. Just to make it clear. :lol: Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I think it was these two objects that you were meant to be zooming in on. Just to make it clear. :lol: Taksraven If you watched it again, you realize that both Luca and Michael are zooming on the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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