Macross Frontier and Fansubs

[Duke Togo]

Personally, I watch 3 a week (AiA-IZ, Gattai, and Shinsen).

[DJ Loe Kee]

Why play favorites? Watch the first one to come out, then watch the preferred one later.

It's what I'd do if the raw image quality wasn't so much better than the pre-subbed video files. The image artifacting in the fansubs was sufficiently distracting that I swear by a raw + Gattai's subtitle file.

No offense to everyone else.

that's what i did with death note, i'd watch kuro-hana first and then i'd watch animanda later (animanda was releasin' episodes 2-3 weeks after it aired in japan vs. kuro-hana's 1-2 day wait time).

[Zinjo]

Cheers to the fansubbers indeed! We need to express our thanks to you all. We're so lucky to have you all working hard. As a long time anime fan who was around when we once traded non-subtitled Betamax tapes to get our anime, it's truly a pleasure to have fansubbers around to help out us Macross fans. Merci!

I was there too brother, I was there too....

Back in the day when the only way to get subs was by sending out a tape or paying for one and hoping you were dealing with a reputable source...

[Vinnie]

I watch whatever comes out first and get the corrections on the given MW feedback thread.

The majority of the feedback to the fansubbers seems to be a call for more accuracy even if it is at the expense of turnaround time. I was trying to say that if 2 of the 3 fansub groups were to follow that suggestion, I'd like at least one group to continue the ASAP philosophy.

[darkrealmbahamut]

Shinsen most likely has the biggest team for subbing but then again they have a butt load of other anime they are working on. I just prefer Shinsen or AiA because they have fonts specific for their series. Just gives a finished look to me.

Edited May 6, 2008 by darkrealmbahamut

[taksraven]

Several instances of funny wording. Not plot errors, mind you, but just how it reads. Alto tells Mikhail that "you better not forget this!" when he is pushing him hard, which makes no sense. It should read something like, "I won't forget this!" Also, "It's twice as tough with the EX-Gear switched on.", which again, makes no sense. Its easier with it switched on. There are several instances of that kinda thing in this episode. And then it seems like several people are just given the rank of captain (including Bobby??). Some of their choices when it comes to wording strike me as odd, as well. Shinsen's first three episodes are still better than the first three put out by the other three groups doing this series, and I was just a little shocked to see such a drop in quality in this release.

For my money, Shinsen has been doing the best work, accuracy and readability. Gattai does well with accuracy, but suffers when it comes to readability. AiA-IZ is a solid read, but the translation has been a little too fast and loose for my liking. You *must* get plot points right when subbing, over everything else. However, their episode 4 release is my favorite Frontier sub so far. Outside of the big flub on Ranka being the only survivor of the 117th Research Fleet, I really felt AiA-IZ took a big step forward with episode 4, and I am eagerly awaiting their episode 5 work.

They are all doing it for free though (if people get paid for fansubbing I would like to know about it), so maybe we should not complain much out of respect. Better than no fansub at all.

Taksraven

[JB0]

They are all doing it for free though (if people get paid for fansubbing I would like to know about it), so maybe we should not complain much out of respect. Better than no fansub at all.

But on the other hand, feedback is nice. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, as long as you keep it friendly.

[darkrealmbahamut]

But on the other hand, feedback is nice. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, as long as you keep it friendly.

Very much agreed there. Considering they do this for free they could easily just give us crap but you see pride in their work and they are trying hard. I wonder if some of our better Japanese speakers on the boards can help them if they need it. More hands to help right?

[grss1982]

But on the other hand, feedback is nice. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, as long as you keep it friendly.

Agreed.

Seeing that some MW members are actually people involved in some way with Gattai (forgot which MW that was) & AiA (Shouta), I think constructive criticism is good.

[Chewie]

I've gotten the first 5 through Gattai and think they're great. Couple of times there have been some "wtf did he just say" type situations but nothing I can't figure out for myself.

Big thanks to them all.

Someone should bribe someone over at Dattebayo to start doing them. Lol

[Daigoro]

I just prefer Shinsen or AiA because they have fonts specific for their series. Just gives a finished look to me.

This is something I just don't understand -- the importance American anime fans attach to things like custom fonts and flashy karaoke effects. Perhaps it's just a generation gap, but as someone who's been watching subtitled live-action movies and TV shows from childhood, I prefer that fonts be readable without being distracting. You don't see professionally subtitled movies with the wacky, hard-to-read fonts that some anime subbers like to use just because some character is speaking with, say, a spooky voice.

I also really wish more subbers would use softsubs, so that I could turn off the subs when watching certain scenes to more clearly see the animation (the "My Boyfriend Is A Pilot" segment in the asteroids, for example). That's one of the things I like about Gattai's use of .mkv containers.

Softsubs would also make it easier for revised or edited subs to be released. I watch a lot of fansubbed Korean and Japanese dramas, and the type of mistakes I've been seeing in these Macross F subs would usually be corrected after some feedback.

I mean, I understand how it can be difficult to figure out what non-Japanese words the characters are speaking, like proper nouns, but some of the other errors I find harder to explain. For example, if you watch the original Macross series, you'll hear variations of the phrase "PURPLE, VERMILLION shotai, kaimetsu!" about 300 times, so I don't see how this could get translated in one of the DeCulture edition subs to "Purple, Vermilion Squadrons JOINED" instead of "destroyed"!

Maybe part of the problem is that the fansubbers are just working too quickly on this title, as others have suggested. But I think that being able to edit subs in response to feedback would also be a good idea. Not to mention we'd all be able to enjoy better visual quality with softsubs, regardless of which sub we picked.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Daigoro

[Sulendil Ang]

Well, one also have to take the consideration of what file type a fansub group can provide. In my case, I have to choose Shinsen's AVI file and AiA's mp4 file because my comp can neither play the HD mkv files nor using the softsub option. Blame it on my lousy, 5-year-old comp.

[Duke Togo]

They are all doing it for free though (if people get paid for fansubbing I would like to know about it), so maybe we should not complain much out of respect. Better than no fansub at all.

Taksraven

I am assuming the fansubbers are eager for feedback, or they wouldn't come post here. And I certainly don't think any of us has been disrespectful or ungrateful.

[Valkyrie addict]

kind of late for the party, but want to thank them again, I'm not really an anime fan, only one I enjoy and follow religiously was macross, and this is the first time I'm enjoying a anime in real time with Japan, it's just astounding, and to be able to see it subbed and in HD is even better

so a big thank you to all you fansubbers who do this for the sheer satisfaction of making others happy, DOMO ARIGATO MR. ROBOTO! HAHA

and to all the people with their 'constructive criticism', if you don't like it or enjoy, instead of complaining a in a forum that I think they would hardly have the time to check, why don't you join them instead...I'm sure your input will be greatly appreciated and they would not deny extra help at their hard work

[Duke Togo]

and to all the people with their 'constructive criticism', if you don't like it or enjoy, instead of complaining a in a forum that I think they would hardly have the time to check, why don't you join them instead...I'm sure your input will be greatly appreciated and they would not deny extra help at their hard work

But they have been checking and posting. I ask that you read more about what has been going on here before criticizing others. And there has been a ton of support for Both AiA-IZ's work and Gattai's, the main two Frontier sub groups.

[Valkyrie addict]

I know what you mean, I wasn't referring about you directly, but a few post around here are a bit harsh, as I understand Japanese is a hard language to translate quickly and lot of people are mostly complaining about semantics, seems a bit harsh from my point on view, don't know if I'm explaining myself correctly

I know you are in direct contact with a few members around here who are doing the subs and making sure it stays true to Macross, and I thank you too for that and I admire your persistance for things to be done right no matter how long they take, but on every episode topics after a sub is released a lot of people jump on the wagon on how a few things don't make sense and what it should say

[jwinges]

I'm very happy with the Shinsen subs versions. Super reliable.

I'm running a sup'ed up laptop with 4gigs memory and dual core processing using a clone or dual display config to my 42inch plasma after being upconverted in my receiver to HD. I very rarely have problems with any fansubs (I watch a ton of anime and only have problems with about 1% of what I watch). I usually use VLC but also test with Zoom player, Media player classic, core media player, and Windows media player.

I had a lot of problems with the AIA and Gattai (jittery and some freezing...plays for 3 seconds and then stutters then another 3 seconds of play then stutters ext.).

I was having a great time with AonE but suddenly the subs font started showing up way too big in episode 2. Unfortunate since I've always like their work.

Hope the feedback helps.

[Project Phoenix]

I want to join the chorus of praise and thanks to all the fansubbers of Frontier. Without you guys, MWers would be at each other's throats, arguing who is right about what is said in the raws. Kidding guys...please put the pitchfork down...

But seriously, I really appreciate the efforts of Shinsen, AiA and Gattai for subbing the series. All I ask is that when the series run is over one of the groups would be kind enough to go over the translations and release a ver.2 to correct it. It would be nice to have a clearer translation. But since this is just a wish, I am willing to wait for a quality rerelease down the road.

Meanwhile, I am going to watch the DVDs with Japanese subs on.

[Gubaba]

I'd like to echo Project Phoneix there...a second version would be nice, especially since this is the closest thing to a professional version we're likely to get for quite a while.

Maybe when the DVDs start coming out...?

[Morpheus]

I'm waiting for the AiA subs. (Mentally picturing F5 button....)

[azrael]

I'm waiting for the AiA subs. (Mentally picturing F5 button....)

Shinsen already put out episode 5, so I'm not sure wanna wait....

[DJ Loe Kee]

^thanks for the info. i haven't even watched episode 4 yet, i'll wait until i finish torrentin' ep. 5.

[Daigoro]

Well, one also have to take the consideration of what file type a fansub group can provide. In my case, I have to choose Shinsen's AVI file and AiA's mp4 file because my comp can neither play the HD mkv files nor using the softsub option. Blame it on my lousy, 5-year-old comp.

I would think even a five year old computer should probably be able to play an xvid AVI with the 704 x 396 resolution used by, say, Shinsen with softsubs, if you use Media Player Classic. Before I bought my current computer I was using a 1 GHz single core CPU Sony laptop to view softsubbed dramas without any problems. I think your problem is probably more related to the use of higher resolution and the H.264 codec in the mkv version.

Unfortunately, I'm aware of the reasons why anime fansubbers like to use hardsubs (fancy fonts, karaoke effects, and to avoid having them "ripped off"), so I don't suppose we'll see any softsubs other than Gattai's.

I'm very happy with the Shinsen subs versions. Super reliable.

I'm running a sup'ed up laptop with 4gigs memory and dual core processing using a clone or dual display config to my 42inch plasma after being upconverted in my receiver to HD. I very rarely have problems with any fansubs (I watch a ton of anime and only have problems with about 1% of what I watch). I usually use VLC but also test with Zoom player, Media player classic, core media player, and Windows media player.

I had a lot of problems with the AIA and Gattai (jittery and some freezing...plays for 3 seconds and then stutters then another 3 seconds of play then stutters ext.).

I was having a great time with AonE but suddenly the subs font started showing up way too big in episode 2. Unfortunate since I've always like their work.

Hope the feedback helps.

Jwinges, have you tried using your TV as the sole display, instead of cloning? That should reduce the workload on your graphics chip.

I was also thinking the Shinsen subs were great, until I looked at their subs for episode 4. I wonder if they were trying too hard to avoid duplicating the lines that other sub groups have already used. Just today I saw that yet another group -- Lunar Anime -- is coming out with hardsubs! With so many groups subbing the same episodes, it will be hard to avoid occasionally duplicating lines without deliberately picking a translation that is either more awkward or less accurate.

And yeah, I have to admit I probably come across as too harsh. I know it's loads of work to put out fansubs, and we're getting them for free. But I just find this situation -- multiple hardsub versions, each with minor but different "mistakes" -- frustrating compared with what I am used to in the drama and movie community. I'd also probably be happier if I didn't know _any_ Japanese, instead of just enough to pick out possible mistakes in the subs...

EDIT: OK, thinking back now on some of the Korean dramas I've watched, there were quite a few with much worse subs than what we're getting for Macross F. I guess I've let the otaku in me get a bit too finicky. But I'd still like to see more softsubs, so that I could, say enjoy the Shinsen subs with some HD raws.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Daigoro

[DJ Loe Kee]

I would think even a five year old computer should probably be able to play an xvid AVI with the 704 x 396 resolution used by, say, Shinsen with softsubs, if you use Media Player Classic. Before I bought my current computer I was using a 1 GHz single core CPU Sony laptop to view softsubbed dramas without any problems. I think your problem is probably more related to the use of higher resolution and the H.264 codec in the mkv version.

Unfortunately, I'm aware of the reasons why anime fansubbers like to use hardsubs (fancy fonts, karaoke effects, and to avoid having them "ripped off"), so I don't suppose we'll see any softsubs other than Gattai's.

Jwinges, have you tried using your TV as the sole display, instead of cloning? That should reduce the workload on your graphics chip.

I was also thinking the Shinsen subs were great, until I looked at their subs for episode 4. I wonder if they were trying too hard to avoid duplicating the lines that other sub groups have already used. Just today I saw that yet another group -- Lunar Anime -- is coming out with hardsubs! With so many groups subbing the same episodes, it will be hard to avoid occasionally duplicating lines without deliberately picking a translation that is either more awkward or less accurate.

And yeah, I have to admit I probably come across as too harsh. I know it's loads of work to put out fansubs, and we're getting them for free. But I just find this situation -- multiple hardsub versions, each with minor but different "mistakes" -- frustrating compared with what I am used to in the drama and movie community. I'd also probably be happier if I didn't know _any_ Japanese, instead of just enough to pick out possible mistakes in the subs...

EDIT: OK, thinking back now on some of the Korean dramas I've watched, there were quite a few with much worse subs than what we're getting for Macross F. I guess I've let the otaku in me get a bit too finicky. But I'd still like to see more softsubs, so that I could, say enjoy the Shinsen subs with some HD raws.

lunar?!? then i won't be watchin' their version. they did a good job and "all that" with bleach, but i found they're use of "slang" and their invention of "new contractions for words that don't (a contraction of do not, lol) have contractions" as bein' very unprofessionally/annoyin'. i would have been cool if the ppl in bleach were speakin' in "japanese slang", then english slang would have been cool cool, ya heard me (nobody says "you heard me", the proper new orleans expression/slang is "ya", not y'all or you. anyways)... but when they dropped bleach and dattebayo picked it up, then all the sudden they were speakin' proper japanese and not slang...

[grss1982]

I'm waiting for the AiA subs. (Mentally picturing F5 button....)

Sorry Morpheus. I couldn't resist.

ANYWAYS....Good News to MWers!!! Looks like Lunar is also subbing Macross Frontier.

[JB0]

ya heard me (nobody says "you heard me", the proper new orleans expression/slang is "ya", not y'all or you. anyways)...

Y'all better respect my Texan "y'all".

[Sorata]

Why is it so popular to always make fun of southerners? Everyone uses some form of slang. Yes I am from the south and am getting tired of hearing that, get enough of it from TV News, a senator from Washington State came on TV and said he didnt want NASCAR to build a track in his state as it would attract southern drunk trailer park trash to his community, yep he said it just like that live on TV, and no we dont all watch NASCAR I dont but my Sergeant from New York loves it.

By the way JBO i know you didnt mean it that way. Just want to point that out before it gets outta hand.

[Duke Togo]

Why is it so popular to always make fun of southerners?

The question isn't "why?" Its "Why not!"

[MisaForever]

Yes, well I live in Kentucky but am NOT a Southerner. It's hard for someone like me here.

[Duke Togo]

Shinsen's episode 5 release was very good. They rebounded very nicely from a sub-par (for them) release of episode 4.

[Sorata]

Oh I forgot to add that Lunar Anime started subbing Macross Frontier too as of yesterday they have episode 1 up.

[DJ Loe Kee]

I've gotten the first 5 through Gattai and think they're great. Couple of times there have been some "wtf did he just say" type situations but nothing I can't figure out for myself.

Big thanks to them all.

Someone should bribe someone over at Dattebayo to start doing them. Lol

does anybody know their email address? we can't send them comments on their website askin' them to sub macross f or they will ip ban the person...

who has a dynamic ip???

Edited May 9, 2008 by DJ Loe Kee

[azrael]

does anybody know their email address? we can't send them comments on their website askin' them to sub macross f or they will ip ban the person...

If they have an IRC channel, go there.

[Duke Togo]

As previously posted, the Lunar subs do indeed include alot of slang and contractions. I found it to be a bit of a turn off. Otherwise, they presentation is very nice.

[Heron]

Still no sign of a [AiA I-Z] Macross Frontier 05.mp4 sub?