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Macross Frontier Episode 4 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*


azrael

Episode 4 Rating  

202 members have voted

  1. 1. What did you think about episode 4?

    • Positive (Go Ranka! Go Alto!)
      192
    • Neutral/No Opinion (explain)
      5
    • Negative (Girl can't sing and the boy can't fly straight)
      5


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If you watch the show with an "internal" perspective, the point is that Ranka is supposed to skyrocket to Sheryl's level of importance somehow, only that it isn't clear how or when. So the twist (of Ranka losing) is the point, it creates anticipation for an event that happens in a completely different way than in SDF Macross, and the homage becomes simply a feint. That the main character conveniently managed to fight in synchro with a song is secondary.

Playing with watchers' expectations is a smart move for directors, it shows skill.

FV

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How do you mean an "internal" perspective? How are we supposed to know that Ranka is going to skyrocket? Is that because we're supposed to know she's going to follow in Minmay's steps? Doesn't that thought necessitate us considering it from the "external" perspective where we only know what to expect because we know of the original series? How is it then "skill"ful to use an episode in such obvious fashion only to put a late twist on it? Isn't that what most people consider "lazy"? I do agree, it is skillful to play with a viewer's expectations but I'd disagree that mirroring an existing episode to do that is a sign of skill.

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haha, I like it well enough. I just find it amusing that people here will praise shows like T:A and gundam 00 and then knock MF for faults that those two show have in spades.

To be fair, Gundam 00 didn't really have any of the usual Gundam tropes, although it borrowed some superficial elements from Wing. I mean there are no newtypes, less melodrama, no conflict between spacenoids and earthnoids, and no Char Aznable clone, no space nazis or space aristocrats. All in all it's gone a completely different direction from any other Gundam show and hasn't adhered to any of the conventions usually followed by the franchise ... we'll see if that holds true in season 2, as it looks like Graham is now wearing a mask *groan* so there is a possibility that it'll turn into another re-hash.

Seeing how craptacular Geass R2 is, I've got fingers crossed on both hands that 00 S2 isn't a piece of poo.

But back on the topic of Macross Frontier being a rehash of the origina, TOTALLY. Oh hay remember that time when Hikaru was a pilot in a flight school on a colony ship? Or when he rebelled against his Kabuki upbringing by becoming a pilot, while never managing to shake his femininity? Remember that time when he raged like crazy and jacked a valkyrie from a dead pilot? Or when Kakizaki was flying around in an Elintseeker and was shy and bashful all the time? Remember that time when max was a sniper in a civilian military provider and was a total dick to everyone? Remember that time that Hikaru trained with queadllun raus in a 7000 year old zentradi battlefield, or when he visited a zentradi mall with minmay?

Yeah neither do I.

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But back on the topic of Macross Frontier being a rehash of the origina, TOTALLY. Oh hay remember that time when Hikaru was a pilot in a flight school on a colony ship? Or when he rebelled against his Kabuki upbringing by becoming a pilot, while never managing to shake his femininity? Remember that time when he raged like crazy and jacked a valkyrie from a dead pilot? Or when Kakizaki was flying around in an Elintseeker and was shy and bashful all the time? Remember that time when max was a sniper in a civilian military provider and was a total dick to everyone? Remember that time that Hikaru trained with queadllun raus in a 7000 year old zentradi battlefield, or when he visited a zentradi mall with minmay?

Heheheeeeh :)

The funny thing is - when I read the first sentence of that...I stopped reading and started going "huh??? Well...okk...Hikaru was a test pilot on the Macross...but it wasn't a 'colony ship"...and then I got to the shake his feminity" part and was thinking "but other than the hair - where's the femininity?"...it was only from jacking a Valkyrie from a dead pilot that I suddenly realized your point :) And the vision of Kakizake in an ELINT being shy and bashful is wonderful :)

VFTF1

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How do you mean an "internal" perspective?

Imagine you have never watched any other Macross series. Imagine they don't even exist.

How are we supposed to know that Ranka is going to skyrocket?

Because she is a main character, so she is obviously gonna be important. Even the opening shows that. The second and third episode also reinforce the idea due to a mysterious connection with Vajras.

Is that because we're supposed to know she's going to follow in Minmay's steps? Doesn't that thought necessitate us considering it from the "external" perspective where we only know what to expect because we know of the original series?

Logical fallacy: petitio principii (vicious circle).

I told you to try to follow an internal perspective. Just do it, then you'll see. If you follow an external perspective, it is obvious that all will seem like it came from an external perspective.

How is it then "skill"ful to use an episode in such obvious fashion only to put a late twist on it? Isn't that what most people consider "lazy"?

Well, with such persuasive begging the question, undoubtly yes.

However, what most people here is thinking looks like "Why, thank you!", so the real question should look something like "would you like a slice of Macross with Frontier icing?".

I do agree, it is skillful to play with a viewer's expectations but I'd disagree that mirroring an existing episode to do that is a sign of skill.

How can you play with viewer's expectations without giving beforehand a well-known and expectable frame to deviate from? You could do a different episode, but then you wouldn't have played with viewer's expectations, because you wouldn't have created any.

FV

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I guess it's all a matter of expectations. Jenus clearly expected or desires a Macross series that is riddled with new ideas.

I think though that we need to keep in mind the "anniversary" nature of this series - it has to be expected.

Besides - there's plenty of Macross stuff that is a total radical departure from SDFM... namely Macross 7 (which I also like very much) :)

Als- we're just five (or six) episodes in to the series - I dunno - it's just that some genres it's hard for people to accept new instalments...

VFTF1

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Interesting if you have both the Shinsen and the Gattai subs, you compare the two videos, when Klan Klan tries to get at Michel, the arm animations are totally different. It's as if the Shinsen one has less frames.

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Shinsei must have "less frame" - after all, I have Shinsei episode 1 and it somehow DOESN'T have the most IMPORTANT frame (Alto carrying Sheryl)...

From episode 2 forward I only have Gettai. Besides I like the MKV format better.

VFTF1

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But back on the topic of Macross Frontier being a rehash of the origina, TOTALLY. Oh hay remember that time when Hikaru was a pilot in a flight school on a colony ship? Or when he rebelled against his Kabuki upbringing by becoming a pilot, while never managing to shake his femininity? Remember that time when he raged like crazy and jacked a valkyrie from a dead pilot? Or when Kakizaki was flying around in an Elintseeker and was shy and bashful all the time? Remember that time when max was a sniper in a civilian military provider and was a total dick to everyone? Remember that time that Hikaru trained with queadllun raus in a 7000 year old zentradi battlefield, or when he visited a zentradi mall with minmay?

Yeah neither do I.

I love it :) I agree, the characters are totally different. I'm going to remember this post when the subject comes up on other boards. I'll draft my response the same way :)

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Shinsei must have "less frame" - after all, I have Shinsei episode 1 and it somehow DOESN'T have the most IMPORTANT frame (Alto carrying Sheryl)...

From episode 2 forward I only have Gettai. Besides I like the MKV format better.

VFTF1

You're crazy. :lol: Oh, and it's ShinSEN not ShinSEI :p

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i really don't see the problems with the homages in macross f. yea, i did make this thread...

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=25952

but that was just a rant, i never judge a series on just 1 or 2 episodes (unless they super, super bore me in the early episodes and i quit watchin' it to switch to another anime for awhile... but i'll come back and finish the series that i quit someday, i still have to know what happened next).

the homages in ep. 4 were tite (just like the homages in ep. 1 were tight), especially the training/battle scenes, the queadluuns, the dead zentraedi and the zentraedi battle ship. even the miss macross contest was tite, ranka all flat chested compared to everybody else. now on to ep. 5 which i heard has no homages.

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