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David Hingtgen

Transformers Super Thread 7

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I totally understand everyone's criticism of Silverbolt, but for some reason I LOVE how he looks and he's the one I'm most looking forward to. Maybe it's because he looks like a G1 brick, only with lots of articulation. Kind of like how I wanted my transformers to move when I was a kid. I wouldn't want all transformers to look like that, but I really dig seeing this one. I'm glad the Japanese version isn't that different otherwise I'd be tempted to get that one. One thing that I'm disappointed about with Silverbolt is that they should have taken the opportunity to make a new set of Arielbots. I bet some crafty customizers out there will use Silverbolt as the base for a new Superion.

Powerglide hasn't looked good to me once yet, and I don't think his character or that mold is worthy of the size. He should have been a deluxe.

Edited by eriku

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I totally understand everyone's criticism of Silverbolt, but for some reason I LOVE how he looks and he's the one I'm most looking forward to. Maybe it's because he looks like a G1 brick, only with lots of articulation. Kind of like how I wanted my transformers to move when I was a kid. I wouldn't want all transformers to look like that, but I really dig seeing this one. I'm glad the Japanese version isn't that different otherwise I'd be tempted to get that one. One thing that I'm disappointed about with Silverbolt is that they should have taken the opportunity to make a new set of Arielbots. I bet some crafty customizers out there will use Silverbolt as the base for a new Superion.

Powerglide hasn't looked good to me once yet, and I don't think his character or that mold is worthy of the size. He should have been a deluxe.

Totally agree with you about Powerglide being in the wrong class. If Hasbro made the thing look good then I would say otherwise, but man his mold looks kinda lame. Something I want to see after I saw and handled an SOC Godmars is I want Hasbro to make more combiners. I know they said it was too expensive, but man do I miss combining all the guys together to make a complete monster of a transformer. Today with modern toy engineering they could make a combiner to have to some decent articulation and not just the standard rotation of the shoulders and the rest is a brick. I pray animated would have a combiner some day.

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Guest sh002

just noticed the license plate on sunstreaker says we r 84 and the picture on the card says we r 82. interesting. damn all the original minibots will be different sizes. how weird does powerglide look standing next to bumblebee and cliffjumper?

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just no Octane/Tankor, the only current one I want.

Transformation is impressive, but his robot and alt modes suffer, mainly the robot mode and his plane mode. His tanker mode isn't as bad. In robot mode, he has short arms and long legs. His claw contraption is weird. His transformation is more complex than Astrotrain's, and his articulation is better, but Astrochoo choo has the better robot mode surprisingly. He feels like a G1 Transformer only fully articulated. With bigger arms that could move side to side more, this probably would have been better than Space Choo choo.

Prowl looks much worse online than in person, that is, unless you find one riddled with paint oversprays. I had to sift through a bunch to find one that had minimal sloppy paint apps. Articulation is nearly on par with Mirage, surprisingly. Transformation is pleasant, and with this version, nostalgia aside, I don't have any desire to own the original. Transformation is more complex than the Animated toys, and up there with some of the movie toys, yet less complicated than most Alternators.

Sunstreaker is the most complex of the three. Transformation makes it seem like a mini Alternator. Actually, the transformation seems more complex than his Alternator version, or on par, the line is blurred. He also has more articulation than the Alternator version. Articulation is great, the automorph is simple in design, and excellent in execution, the fact that the same body can be used to make Sideswipe and still look considerably different shows brilliance in engineering.

Overall this is a great showing for the first wave of Universe, despite being overshadowed by the Animated line. I am eagerly looking forward to the Ultras, yes all of them. Silverbolt is the most dissapointing but I like the new jet alt mode he has(hate the undercarriage, very surprised its worse than Movie Starscream!), hate how the jet mode is bolted to his back in robot mode, but its a character I like from childhood, has one hell of an update in alt mode, and can finally %^&*ing move right.

Seems to me that the Ultra class is a balancing act. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Ultra announced will be another non combining, combiner leader. I am anxious for Ultra updates for Hotspot and Motormaster. So far we have 1 Decepticon gestalt leader and an autobot one, as well as 2 versions of the Powerglide mode, that makes 4 Ultras evenly balanced out amongst the factions for now. If Hotspot and MotorMaster are next, that can take up 1 wave and also keep the balance.

Hotspot and Motormaster killed ass. Looked like Optimus, weren't Optimi, awesome 3rd/base/repair modes.

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I really would like to see Motormaster handled as an ultra not so much Hotspot, but Motormaster is all sorts of badass.

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Nee-ha! Wave 3 is now complete; I lucked out and caught WalMart in the middle of a restock. The whole end cap was full of them, and it wasn't hard finding the ones I wanted since most of them seemed to be painted well. I haven't had a chance to open them, but Snarl is looking to be the fave of this line up. I just wish Soundwave and Jazz were a tad bigger; it's just kinda weird that Oil Slick has to be largest of them all. Also sighted was the humungous auto-transforming Prime. I love the size, but his sculpt is just awful IMHO. Anyways, I can't wait to get home and mess around with this latest haul. ^_^

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As the other Wal-Mart had everyone but Octane (I refuse to call him Tankor), I checked my closest Wal-Mart today while grocery shopping. Got Octane! They also had Leader Bulkhead--the first Animated figure they've ever had. They still don't even have wave 1 animated deluxes there. Currently have only seen 2 of Octane's 3 modes. The transformation is quite interesting, but the HUGE gaping hole at the rear with a cargo plane's cockpit halves inside is very detracting for truck mode. Maybe the worst "obvious compromise for a triple-changer" ever. (I personally think Astrotrain's rocket nozzles in loco mode are cool, and it's not a GAPING HOLE) Also, having part of the tank silver, and the rest grey plastic, is "US Leader Prime" cheap/distracting. Yes, I do plan to paint it silver--with a different type of paint than my last silver paint attempt... If someone comes up with a "covers the hole" custom part for the rear, it'd help immensely.

I am a huge Octane fan, and I HIGHLY value new/interesting transformations, so I had to buy him. Conversely, that's why I'm not buying Animated Jazz. He may be perfect/awesome--but I've had that "transforming car toy" a hundred times before in slighty different sculpts/colors.

::edit:: Proto-Octane has an all-silver tank, and he's actually WHITE instead of very pale coral. That would have helped. Triple-changers really need to be voyagers. Same issue as Silverbolt and Galvatron--they seem to be picking the wrong guys for the price-points. If Galvatron and Octane were Voyagers, and Silverbolt and probably Powerglide(or Onslaught) were Deluxes, everything would have worked out a lot better.

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Octane is a pretty sweet figure considering the size limitations and design limitations... I don't really have any classics 'cons (besides the Galvatron, Cyclonus, and Tit. Scourge I WILL have) so I don't think I'll get him... working on filling some G1 holes right now.

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More on Octane:

1. There's holes that have no other purpose other than holding the guns, on the sides of the truck cab. I think that may be their intended location, not on the rear of the truck using the fist-holes.

2. Waist-plate. Why is it hinged? I really can't see a reason for this being a separate part, and being hinged. Until I actually got him into robot mode, I thought it was a waist-plate, hinged for articulation, etc--except it's on the wrong side, and he can't turn at the waist 180 to use it. It's actually the small of his back. Abandoned step/feature?

3. I think the "alternate" way of doing the shoulders in bot mode may be the intended way---things work out too well, color/design/detail/joint-wise.

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1. There's holes that have no other purpose other than holding the guns, on the sides of the truck cab. I think that may be their intended location, not on the rear of the truck using the fist-holes.

I read a suggestion to put the guns on the side of the cab as smokestacks, and it looks better to me that way. I tried it yesterday.

3. I think the "alternate" way of doing the shoulders in bot mode may be the intended way---things work out too well, color/design/detail/joint-wise.

What is the alternate way?

Triple-changers really need to be voyagers.

Definitely, Ultras even, that would have helped with Animated Blitzwing.

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just noticed the license plate on sunstreaker says we r 84 and the picture on the card says we r 82. interesting.

I think that maybe the Henkei one will have the 82 plates, and as such will be a Diaclone homage.

I eagerly await Sideswipe, Ironhide, Ratchet, Cyclonus, Hound, the Ultras...damn..the thing I absolutely love about this line is that most releases are spaced out well, and it will be easier to save money. I even think Treadbolt looks bad ass.

Now the only things left to complete the core IDW cast are most of the Decepticons. We need F-22 seekers, tank Megatron(the one he had in Infiltration), Blitzwing and the 2 Decepticon cars, the black and white one.

Oh man I want IDW/Su based F-22 seekers. Now those I could see as voyagers. Hell, maybe even market them in the movie line as exlusives to Target or other retailers, as "Starscream's back up brigade". F-22s in seeker colors=WIN

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I'm actually enjoying the new figures, both Animated and Classics, for the chance to get them and then add little paint details to make them 100% right. My own "Premium Series."

A little silver on Voyager Prime's cheeks and ears is enough to really complete the picture. I'm also fixing the over/under-spray issues on Classics Prowl at the moment. Added some silver and yellow highlights to Cybertron-Mode Prime, too. Once they're all dry I'll snap up some pics.

Also saw Animated Leader Megatron yesterday, and have been kicking myself since for not buying him on the spot. If I see him again I won't make that same mistake, but I told myself "just one TF today" and that was Classics Prowl.

Still no luck finding any of the Wave 3 Deluxes, you guys are either very lucky or going much farther out of your way to get them than I am :)

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Conversely, that's why I'm not buying Animated Jazz. He may be perfect/awesome--but I've had that "transforming car toy" a hundred times before in slighty different sculpts/colors.

Dude, you're seriously missing out, then. I just picked up the Wave 3 deluxes and Jazz is simply one of THE best of the entire Animated line. The clever nunchucks/pipes feature even impressed my wife, who normally could care less about my toys. This guy puts a lot of those "transforming car toys" to shame.

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Guest sh002

i can just imagine how cool the rest of the cars would be as classics. didn't know or forgot they were planning on making a classics cyclonus and hound (other than the legends one).

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I sent out payment today for a G1 Hardhead I finally tracked down! I cannot wait to get him... I'm in the process of picking up a bunch of different head and target-masters right now... it'd be awesome to get a couple -masters in the Classics line.

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Guest sh002

just got henkei megatron and it is cool. also preordered the set of 5 classics that include ironhide, galvatron, silverstreak, sideswipe, and acid storm from bbts for $60. it comes out cheaper and as if acid storm is free since digital toys sells ironhide for $20 and i'm guessing bbts will too once they sell it individually.

i still think hasbro could have made a different repaint of thundercracker instead of making acid storm.

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I sent out payment today for a G1 Hardhead I finally tracked down! I cannot wait to get him... I'm in the process of picking up a bunch of different head and target-masters right now... it'd be awesome to get a couple -masters in the Classics line.

Be very carefull with his chest panel. The gray plastic gets grouchy with age and the way the door is pinned

it's really easy to break the hinge. Just FYI

Otherwise he's a fun design from that era. One of my favorites.

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Just picked up Animated Leader Megatron and Oil Slick and Jazz. I love these figures and i am always amazed by them. Megatron while he looks cool and all his transformation is kind of weak but it's cool since it is dead on accurate to the show. My only real gripe is that the nanchucks on Jazz aren't stored on his leg like in the toon, I think that is where they deployed from. Other than that I really want to see new episodes now since we haven't seen Oil Slick yet and they have a Elite Guard Bumblebee repaint wonder if he finally made it or not. I am still looking for Blitzwing, I really want him since and of course Soundwave, and Slag. Then I get to wait again for Wave 4 to complete my Dinobots, and get Sentinel Prime.

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As I stopped by my local Walmart I picked up an animated Megatron! Today I'll provide a short review and a few pictures to show how badass this guy is. First of all, man this thing is incredibly accurate to the cartoon. Articulation is excellent as he has double jointed elbows, wrist rotation, bicep swivel, rotates at the shoulders, in and out for hips, bends at the knees, swiveling ankles, turns at the neck and swivels on the leg. In addition ratchets all over from the elbows, shoulders, knees, hips just and awesome click everywhere! The cocking mechanism on the gun works nicely too. Both modes are pretty solid, but the arms could lock a little tighter. My only real complaint with the figure is the odd leg design where posing can be a little tricky, but its not bad at all. Overall this figure is a solid 8.7/10 as it satisfies greatly for a $40 transformer. The electronic features are neat too. B))

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post-5389-1216083637_thumb.jpg

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As I stopped by my local Walmart I picked up an animated Megatron! Today I'll provide a short review and a few pictures to show how badass this guy is. First of all, man this thing is incredibly accurate to the cartoon. Articulation is excellent as he has double jointed elbows, wrist rotation, bicep swivel, rotates at the shoulders, in and out for hips, bends at the knees, swiveling ankles, turns at the neck and swivels on the leg. In addition ratchets all over from the elbows, shoulders, knees, hips just and awesome click everywhere! The cocking mechanism on the gun works nicely too. Both modes are pretty solid, but the arms could lock a little tighter. My only real complaint with the figure is the odd leg design where posing can be a little tricky, but its not bad at all. Overall this figure is a solid 8.7/10 as it satisfies greatly for a $40 transformer. The electronic features are neat too. cool.gif

Its the best Leader Class Megatron so far. The articulation is great, the paint job is accurate, the alt mode is decent, and theres nothing that rubs me wrong unlike some of the previous Leader Megatron's from older lines(like funky Unicron colored Cybertron Megatron, immovable head/weird ass alt mode Movie Megatron, and I-Should-Be-Galvatron-Instead-Energon Megatron).

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More on Octane:

1. There's holes that have no other purpose other than holding the guns, on the sides of the truck cab. I think that may be their intended location, not on the rear of the truck using the fist-holes.

Definitely. I wondered the same thing when I transformed it the first time.

2. Waist-plate. Why is it hinged? I really can't see a reason for this being a separate part, and being hinged. Until I actually got him into robot mode, I thought it was a waist-plate, hinged for articulation, etc--except it's on the wrong side, and he can't turn at the waist 180 to use it. It's actually the small of his back. Abandoned step/feature?

No, I think they are definitely for articulation. If you want his leg to bend back for any reason at all, the plate has to hinge. Such as a running pose.

3. I think the "alternate" way of doing the shoulders in bot mode may be the intended way---things work out too well, color/design/detail/joint-wise.

I am curious myself as to whet the alternative method is. Please share!

I am really digging these new Classics. Sunstreaker and octane turned out so well. I love how the wings on Octane's back can be unlocked and posed. Sunstreaker is just great all around and I can wait for Sideswipe.

Edited by GogDog

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Oh ,and Octane's Claw Mode is better than Long-Unwieldy-Thingy Mode. He uses it to destroy inferior figures. :)

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2670164720_d18369dfb3_b.jpg

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Picked up the first wave of Activators and they're all pretty neat little toys. The plastic is surprisingly high quality and the automatic transformation doesn't detract from them quite as much as I thought it would. I still prefer manual transformations, but the 'push of a button' gimmick on these doesn't really sacrifice much in terms of sculpt and articulation.

Starscream is downright fantastic easily the best toy of the three. I actually like this version far more than the Deluxe. He has tons of articulation, and his alt mode looks great from the top. Bottom of the jet has some arms just hanging there, but it's a small price to pay for such a great bot mode. He's even got a set of retractable landing gear in the rear to keep him level. If you're someone that likes to shave down parts for improved articulation, like I am, make sure to transfrom this guy first. He comes in bot mode and while I was posing him I noticed there was a tab behind each knee that prevents them from bending a full 90 degrees. I grabbed an exacto knife so I could shave them down but decided to transform him first, and that's when I realized the tabs lock into the back of the jet to hold his legs in place in alt mode. Without them they'd just sit there loosely.

Bumblebee also has some great articulation and a solid looking alt mode, suffering only from a couple things: side panels that don't peg into anything so they are easily displaced, and big black hinges on the rear that are necessary for his arms. Like Starscream I tend to like this version better than the deluxe, at least in bot mode. He has a slight G1 look to him, almost more so than Classics Bee. I absolutely love that his scale fits really well with voyager Bulkhead.

Bulkhead is the one I wanted to like the most but he doesn't fare as well as the other two. In bot mode he's got some monster gaps when viewed from the side, and just doesn't feel as solid as the other two, nor is he as articulated. The lesser articulation is forgivable I suppose since his proportions are stubbier than the other two. He still looks cool though, especially when viewed from the front. Alt mode actually looks really good from most angles. I LOVE how they made the large hinges on each side more attractive by cleverly making them look like cannons. While that detail was cleverly worked out, others were overlooked or designed poorly. The worst of them is they cheaped out and went for sculpted wheels for the middle wheel on each side. This wouldn't be so bad if the sculpted wheel didn't sit higher than the other spinning wheels, so it just screams "Look at me, I'm a fake wheel!" It actually would have looked better if they had just skipped the middle wheel completely. One other small problem is his light bar. Where it should be green in the middle and red where the lights are, they painted it in reverse so the middle is red and the lights are bare green plastic. I'm sure they did this because the middle is where the activator button is and they wanted the button to be red. Not a big deal, but it does look weird.

While they all have their little problems, I really dig these little guys. They occupy a whole new realm and scale in the TF world between Legends and Deluxes. Yeah, the last thing we needed was a whole new scale but that doesn't make the toys any less great. I can't wait for the next wave and I hope they're able to figure out how to do Grimlock in this style.

Edited by eriku

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I picked up Activators BB and really like him... he's my BB for Animated, as being a bit small is much more appropriate for BB than being ginourmously oversized. I may pick up SS as well, and some of the next wave figs... they're impressive fun little buggers.

Chind- thanks for the tip on Hardhead... I absolutely cannot wait to get him.

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Man, I haven't seen the Classics 2.0 anywhere. The only TFs I've seen were the initial wave of the Animated toys. What are the Classics 2.0 retailing for at Target/Walmart?

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Found Grimlock everywhere I went today, strangely enough. Anyways---much quicker/easier fix for the "arm won't slide all the way in" issue----just loosen the screw a bit.

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Man, I haven't seen the Classics 2.0 anywhere. The only TFs I've seen were the initial wave of the Animated toys. What are the Classics 2.0 retailing for at Target/Walmart?

Should be $9.99 or so, the first sightings of Classics was at TRU, and they are $10.99 there.

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Check out this list from the Walmart computers:

Chad's query about future Robot Heroes releases got me curious, so I

poked around in the Wal-Mart computer today and I found some listings

for upcoming toys that I didn't know about. Apologies if this is old

news, but I haven't seen any mention of them here yet.

In addition to the Robot Heroes we already know about (Kickback,

Ironhide, Blaster, Thrust, etc.) there were several pairs listed in

the computer I wasn't aware of. Some of the names were truncated so

their identities are not known to me:

SNARL VS SHARKT

CHEETOR VS TANK

PERCEPTOR VS HA

TIGATRON VS INF

RICOCHET VS PRE

SUPER OP VS RID

PROWL VS LASERB

OPTMS VS JETSTR

VCTRY SABER VS

Let's break this down. Pitting Snarl against a Sharkticon is strange

and comical since Snarl was the only Dinobot who *didn't* encounter

the Sharkticons at any point, but I sure hope these figures match my

mental picture, because in my head they're super-cute. Thylacine 2000

recently confirmed that Cheetor vs. Tankor was a Beast Machines set

announced at BotCon.

Perceptor and his mystery opponent have me baffled; there are only a

handful of characters whose names start with "Ha-" and none of them

seem appropriate. (I'm holding out for the possibility that it's one

of the generic background Decepticon jets, and that they've

appropriated one of the names I assigned them, like Harbinger or

Hailstorm.) I suppose it could be a brand-new character with a name

like Hacksaw, but that wouldn't make sense in the Robot Heroes toy

line. (Han Solo? Harvey Birdman? Hamburglar? Half-Assed Homage?)

Anyway... I wonder if Tigatron vs. Inferno includes a recycled version

of Robot Heroes Cheetor (an accurate version of Tigatron would have a

new head sculpt, but who knows what they'll do). Ricochet seems like

an odd choice (redeco of Jazz?) but if that's Predaking he comes with,

I'll be delighted to no end. Super Optimus vs. RiD Megatron was also

confirmed at BotCon. Prowl vs. Laserbeak will be fun, I think.

Optimus vs. Jetstorm is apparently another Beast Machines set; why are

they wasting time with these when they could be doing figures of

characters who *didn't* get Hasbro toys, like the Diagnostic Drone?

Victory Saber is a surprising choice, but it'll make the Japanese fans

happy. Wonder who he comes with. Deszaras? (Wonder how they'll

romanize his name?)

Here's some other stuff I didn't know about, but I don't know if it's

already been reported elsewhere. The cross-reference for the

Transformers Classics series (Sunstreaker, Prowl, Tankor, etc.) also

includes a listing for DX CHEETOR, DX AUTOBOT, DX CYCLONUS, DX HOT

SHOT, and DX STARSCREA. The Autobot listing is probably short for

Jazz or Hound or somebody, but the non-G1 characters seem like odd

choices. Is Starscream just going to be a repack of the Classics 1.0

toy, or something else?

The Ultra scale assortment (the one that will have Onslaught,

Silverbolt, and Powerglide) also had a cross-reference in the computer

for SCOURGE and somebody called STORM C. What's that short for (Storm

Cloud?), and who's he supposed to be?

The Deluxe scale Animated toys had listings for an ARCEE SLEEK CAR (I

knew an Arcee toy was coming; I just think the description is funny,

like they're going out of their way to point out that she's not a

spider or a motorcycle) and also a TRA ELECTROSTATIC S. That's quite

a mouthful; is that supposed to be a character's name?

The Transformers Crossover series had listings for MVL TRA CRSSOVR

CPT, MVL TRA CRSSOVR HUMA, MVL TRA CRSSOVR WOLV, and MVL TRA CRSSOVR

THIN. The first three are evidently Captain America, Human Torch, and

Wolverine, but who's the fourth one?

Finally, I found the Transformers Universe Legends toys in the system

(and apparently my store's got 24 of them in stock somewhere, but I

haven't seen any of 'em yet). There were listings for Onslaught, Red

Alert, Starscream, Hound, Autobot Jazz, Megatron, Optimus Prime,

Bumblebee, Prowl, Beachcomber, Brawn, Cosmos, Rodimus, Wheelie, and

Warpath. Are these all supposed to be redeco versions of existing

Legends class toys, or are there going to be any designed specifically

to represent the G1 characters? (I can't believe they're doing

another version of Wheelie! That's crazy!) These are going to retail

for only $4.44 so I'm thinking I may end up buying quite a few of

them.

Crosses fingers that DX Starscream is Armada Starscream. The 4th Marvel Crossover sounds like Thing. Storm Cloud is the Decepticon repaint of Powerglide. I am hoping Scourge is an all new mold based on RID Scourge. Besides why would a new G1 Scourge be out of scale to Cyclonus and Galvatron? Its not like it needed an update but if its a more modernized, more articulated, more accurate rendition then I am all for it! Though honestly, the Laser Rod Prime mold was just damn good and is hard to beat. If its just a mere reissue without the trailer, then that sucks. The trailer was an awesome base. Not to mention, getting the cab alone feels like a rip off for $25. Plus, all the Ultras in Classics have been new molds so far....

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Animated Grimlock has the best eye light-piping ever.

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Animated Grimlock has the best eye light-piping ever.

You never said what Octane's alternate shoulder method was.

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Check out this list from the Walmart computers:

Crosses fingers that DX Starscream is Armada Starscream. The 4th Marvel Crossover sounds like Thing. Storm Cloud is the Decepticon repaint of Powerglide. I am hoping Scourge is an all new mold based on RID Scourge. Besides why would a new G1 Scourge be out of scale to Cyclonus and Galvatron? Its not like it needed an update but if its a more modernized, more articulated, more accurate rendition then I am all for it! Though honestly, the Laser Rod Prime mold was just damn good and is hard to beat. If its just a mere reissue without the trailer, then that sucks. The trailer was an awesome base. Not to mention, getting the cab alone feels like a rip off for $25. Plus, all the Ultras in Classics have been new molds so far....

Cool, Ultra Scourge and crossover Captain America & Thing are all new to me.

Hope Scourge is good.

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As I stopped by my local Walmart I picked up an animated Megatron! Today I'll provide a short review and a few pictures to show how badass this guy is. First of all, man this thing is incredibly accurate to the cartoon. Articulation is excellent as he has double jointed elbows, wrist rotation, bicep swivel, rotates at the shoulders, in and out for hips, bends at the knees, swiveling ankles, turns at the neck and swivels on the leg. In addition ratchets all over from the elbows, shoulders, knees, hips just and awesome click everywhere! The cocking mechanism on the gun works nicely too. Both modes are pretty solid, but the arms could lock a little tighter. My only real complaint with the figure is the odd leg design where posing can be a little tricky, but its not bad at all. Overall this figure is a solid 8.7/10 as it satisfies greatly for a $40 transformer. The electronic features are neat too. B))

Oooooo.....I can't wait to get this one. I have the Voyager class one of his cybertronian mode and I do not like it.

:ph34r:

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You never said what Octane's alternate shoulder method was.

Ehhh!?! What's this you speak of? :huh:

:ph34r:

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