UN Spacy Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I would imagine the DX version needs a bit more heft for the weighty Fast Packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I agree, the hands are not designed to fold in or slide away, they just tuck in neatly for fighter mode. I've seen enough pictures and studied enough of the underside of the 25 to tell that is most likely the case. I study underside pics like that because I am in a never ending quest to understand how transformations and stuff like that work until I know for sure by having it in my hands or seeing a detailed transformation. I spent a lot of time before I finally decided how the arms of the VF-25 fold away in fighter mode, it really is simple it turns out, but I made it hard before I figured it out. You are so like me, it's not even funny. I actually buy Transformer toys in order based on which ones I can't figure out just by looking at the figure in the box first. Makes us good engineers! My only sticking point on the VF-25 is how those shoulders flip out. It seems similar to the VF-11, but not quite the same, and with things in that area being heavily contoured it's not as easy to tell just by looking which way things end up. Even the paint scheme (analyzing how the stripes would line up) does me no good. Hence, I must own all of them to solve this mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 (edited) You are so like me, it's not even funny. I actually buy Transformer toys in order based on which ones I can't figure out just by looking at the figure in the box first. Makes us good engineers! My only sticking point on the VF-25 is how those shoulders flip out. It seems similar to the VF-11, but not quite the same, and with things in that area being heavily contoured it's not as easy to tell just by looking which way things end up. Even the paint scheme (analyzing how the stripes would line up) does me no good. Hence, I must own all of them to solve this mystery. Yeah, it was the paint stripes that were causing me trouble on the arms as well... but the big noticeable thing is the backside of the arms (back of shoulder and elbow) match the underside details of the fighter perfectly so it seems to be a simple 180 flip out form the fuselage and then aligning into arm position. However the shoulder areas with the stripes and the rotating mechanism still give me some confusion. I'm just trying to take it as that while I wait until I can transform it myself. I don't always buy the ones I want to figure out unless I really want them because I have to save money (not on the job just yet.. so no income, heheh). However I try so hard to figure them out other ways. I spent so much time trying to figure out Movie Optimus Prime's transformation. I got that toy but I know by observation that the transformation is different in the movie (ex. the arms in the movie come from the hood of the truck whereas in the toy they are on the cab behind the chest). 10,108 moving parts on the CGI model and I am still confounded about how the legs are coming together on him. Edited July 4, 2008 by Master Dex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 ...seems to be a simple 180 flip out form the fuselage and then aligning into arm position. However the shoulder areas with the stripes and the rotating mechanism still give me some confusion ... 10,108 moving parts on the CGI model and I am still confounded about how the legs are coming together on him. Yeah, it looks like the "collar bones" rotate out like the VF-11, but stay tucked underneath the fuselage the entire time. Think like the 1/48 VF-1 or VF-0, but they take a chunk of the airplane body out and around with them, with the shoulder joint folding out once the rotation is complete. I just don't see the clearance to achieve it. Re: Optimus Prime - Magic. Seriously, they fudged on a lot of the transformations just for the sake of having a ton of small moving parts everywhere to make it seem super-high-tech. For example, they based the size of Optimus Prime's CG on what's basically a humanoid in a kneeling position occupying the space entirely in the truck's forward cab + engine. You can see it in the DVD extras. Making me wanna re-watch the movie now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Yeah, it looks like the "collar bones" rotate out like the VF-11, but stay tucked underneath the fuselage the entire time. Think like the 1/48 VF-1 or VF-0, but they take a chunk of the airplane body out and around with them, with the shoulder joint folding out once the rotation is complete. I just don't see the clearance to achieve it. Re: Optimus Prime - Magic. Seriously, they fudged on a lot of the transformations just for the sake of having a ton of small moving parts everywhere to make it seem super-high-tech. For example, they based the size of Optimus Prime's CG on what's basically a humanoid in a kneeling position occupying the space entirely in the truck's forward cab + engine. You can see it in the DVD extras. Making me wanna re-watch the movie now I have the special edition movie. That was my cinema for last week. You don't know how big that movie was for me. I'm a die hard TF fan. I followed the development of that movie for years since it was a rumor. I'm doing the same with TF Revenge of the Fallen. As for the transformation bit, a lot of them were fudged, but the Optimus one is more real than the others. There is an explanation in how the legs come together, it is just difficult. I know part of it comes form the cab, some of it from the back rollers, and the front 2 wheels are involved some how as well. As for the VF arms, yeah we'll figure it out. I'm sure it will be quite a day too when we finally get to handle those 25s, I can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Arms Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I'm still not diggin the wide head antennas, But I fault that more to the overall design. I think for that reason alone Ozma's and Michels valks will look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chowser Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 They look good, I just wish someone would release these things in fighter only mode in 1/60 scale. I don't really transform my toys that much. In fact, I have never transformed my YF-19, and I'll probably never transform the YF-21 either. Make a static toy for like $50 (Because I hate putting models together) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Arms Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 They look good, I just wish someone would release these things in fighter only mode in 1/60 scale. I don't really transform my toys that much. In fact, I have never transformed my YF-19, and I'll probably never transform the YF-21 either. Make a static toy for like $50 (Because I hate putting models together) I feel ya. But I do love the option of displaying them in battroid mode. Which is why the toys are vastly superior to the models. Most of mine stay in fighter mode. I transform them every blue moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 My only question about the vf-25 transformation is how the shield goes from the arm to the back of the fuselage. It looks like there is no mechanism to put it there other than it flying off the arm and connecting to the backpack ala gundam wing style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 My only question about the vf-25 transformation is how the shield goes from the arm to the back of the fuselage. It looks like there is no mechanism to put it there other than it flying off the arm and connecting to the backpack ala gundam wing style It is still connected to the arm when it is back there, right under the shield in fighter mode is where the arms are hiding. That reminds me, while the shoulders of the arms have been confusing me (and Dio apparently), I have also been tackling a problem with the shield. If you follow that the elbow of the arms faces away from the bottom of the craft in fighter mode, that would mean the shield is sitting on the inner arm part there, but when transformed the shield is on the side of the arm. The only way for me to see it work is the shield swivels from the side of the arm over to the inner part and then proceeds to cover both in fighter mode. Maybe a smaller connection between the shield and the arm is folded out that allows it to go up and cover the two arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 i thought the same thing but so far the pictures that we have seen dont show any transformation mechanism i wish some more pictures would be releases that would clarify what bandia has done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thankheaven Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 (edited) Too chubby and too "toy-like" for me. Getting better but not up to Yamato level yet in my opinion. I might grab Ozma's later if they release an armor set though. Edited July 5, 2008 by thankheaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transfan52 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Too chubby and too "toy-like" for me. Getting better but not up to Yamato level yet in my opinion. I might grab Ozma's later if they release an armor set though. If your looking for perfect proportions get the bandai transformable models lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHX Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 (edited) Its coming along nicely... But am I the only one who feels that the visor is huge? Also I guess this might just be an odd angle but is either the cod piece is too low or the legs too high? Heres a picture where I photoshopped a few changes to the visor and cod piece. Looks closer to the official art imo. I guess its not a huge deal but itll be nice for them to tweak the details. It doesnt seem like something that'll be that hard to change... but then again, I'm not positive on how the transformation works so I guess the cod/leg thing might be difficult. Who knows... Edited July 6, 2008 by AlphaHX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Nice PS job, i think your version looks a lot better! It's not that the cod piece is too big or low, but that the hips are at the wrong spot. They should be around the middle and not at the top of the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nugundamII Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Definitely looks like the hands are removable and do not fold or retract inside the forearms. Not surprising and half expected it really, given how skinny the forearms are. Graham You could be right. I dont see any seams in the forearms to store the hands. If that is the case you really can call these DX I have a load of DX SOC figures. Dancougar, Gunbuster, Aquarion, and Idion and they all can store the hands of course they come with extra hands..... Too bad tho....they do look good but I will dish out the $$ to get them because they are one of a kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Hands which don't retract are actually a good thing, because it means their size won't be compromised for the sake of hiding them in a mode. If they're on roughly the same scale as MG Gundam hands (with articulated fingers), I'll be in hog heaven. Consider how much space is wasted in the forearms as well, when you basically have to create a cavity inside the lower 2/3 of the forearm to accommodate the retracted hands. Hands that remain out in all modes really solve two problems at the same time for toys. It's not hard to assume the hands grip (or otherwise attach to) something in the base of the shield while in Fighter mode, and might even help explain how the shield is secured in place on the back of the jet. Though I do recall seeing a pretty large hinge on the shield in one of the prototype photos (think like Cybertron-mode Optimus Prime from the new Animated Transformers toys), I distinctly remember thinking "man, that shield looks a little far off the VF's arm on that hinge thing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danth Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Its coming along nicely... But am I the only one who feels that the visor is huge? Also I guess this might just be an odd angle but is either the cod piece is too low or the legs too high? Heres a picture I photoshopped a few changes with the visor and cod piece. Looks closer to the official art imo. Geez, I didn't realize just how out of whack the VF-25 toy is. I always thought the head was weird looking, and now that people have pointed out exactly what's wrong, I'm just not as impressed. It's funny how toy makers can really nail the detail and shape of each separate piece, but they screw up on something as important as the head, and then mess up on the overall proportions (like the legs attaching to the hips way to high and the shoulders being too wide). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy00z Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I wonder if the latest pictures are what we'll get for the final thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 It's funny how toy makers can really nail the detail and shape of each separate piece, but they screw up on something as important as the head Well Kawamori did request changes for the shape of the head, that deviated from the appearance on TV. Also it doesn't help that the head in the picture looks to be angled as if looking upwards, on a ball joint. I like the look of the toy so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physioguy Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Its coming along nicely... But am I the only one who feels that the visor is huge? Also I guess this might just be an odd angle but is either the cod piece is too low or the legs too high? Heres a picture I photoshopped a few changes with the visor and cod piece. Looks closer to the official art imo. I guess its not a huge deal but itll be nice for them to tweak the details. It doesnt seem like something that'll be that hard to change... but then again, I'm not positive on the transformation works so I guess the cod/leg thing might be difficult. Who knows... The mods you did are great! It would be tough to modify the crotch piece on the final toy, but changing the visor size makes it look waaaay better. I'm sure (hope) Kawamori changed the same things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Hands which don't retract are actually a good thing, because it means their size won't be compromised for the sake of hiding them in a mode. If they're on roughly the same scale as MG Gundam hands (with articulated fingers), I'll be in hog heaven. Consider how much space is wasted in the forearms as well, when you basically have to create a cavity inside the lower 2/3 of the forearm to accommodate the retracted hands. Hands that remain out in all modes really solve two problems at the same time for toys. It's not hard to assume the hands grip (or otherwise attach to) something in the base of the shield while in Fighter mode, and might even help explain how the shield is secured in place on the back of the jet. Though I do recall seeing a pretty large hinge on the shield in one of the prototype photos (think like Cybertron-mode Optimus Prime from the new Animated Transformers toys), I distinctly remember thinking "man, that shield looks a little far off the VF's arm on that hinge thing." Agreed on hands. As for shield, that is what I was thinking but I think you worded it better than how I tried to say it earlier. The shield is on some hinge of some type that swings over the other side of the arm and gets held by both arms in some way to keep it in place. I too noticed originally how far off from it's native arm the shield was in fighter mode so this is the best explanation until we know for sure. You know despite that and the should problem we are having trouble working out completely, there isn't much more about this transformation I'm not sure about. It is almost saddening, I like my meticulous process of looking through screens and others pictures to try and figure these things out. I would start looking into the VF-27, but it seems pretty obvious that besides the wings it's transformation is almost identical to the 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transfan52 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 From what I see I think its still possible to make all the changes to the toy that was shown in the PS pics. All they really have to do is shorten the swingbar on the toy and add a few moving joints to the bar so that it cant be maneuvered and locked into place where legs are supposed to lock to the hip in battloid mode. To keep the legs from being constrained from movement on the top portion they would have to make an extended bar piece. The visor and antena's can also be altered easily... all they need to do in make a new headsulpt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHX Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 (edited) Well Kawamori did request changes for the shape of the head, that deviated from the appearance on TV. Also it doesn't help that the head in the picture looks to be angled as if looking upwards, on a ball joint. I like the look of the toy so far. Really? Thats interesting. I wonder what specific changes Kawamori requested. Where did you find out about that? I wonder why he would make any changes. Maybe Alto gets his head blown off too many times and they redesign his VF-25 with a new fatty visor head by the end of the series. Edited July 6, 2008 by AlphaHX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Really? Thats interesting. I wonder what specific changes Kawamori requested. Where did you find out about that? I wonder why he would make any changes. Maybe Alto gets his head blown off too many times and they redesign his VF-25 with a new fatty visor head by the end of the series. Probably more a case of an artist never being satisfied with his work and revising it at every opportunity. I just want to know what the story with the fast packs/armored packs for these toys will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Really? Thats interesting. I wonder what specific changes Kawamori requested. Where did you find out about that? vifam7 translated one of the magazine articles where its mentioned. Kawamori wanted the head to take a certain shape, less narrow from the top I think. Anyways Bandai is not alone in having to change things for Kawamori's approval, Yamato has to go through him for their releases too. He is the reason we didn't get a brown 1/60 VF-0A. I hope we see production photos soon, I'm itching to see Ozma's in fighter mode, and also see what kind of coating these will have. I want to see gloss coating like on the chunkys. I hope Alto's 25 also has the ultraviolent tint that the VF-1A Hikaru reissue had. That tint was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Ultraviolent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Ultraviolent? Is this what we get if we mix Macross Frontier with A Clockwork Orange? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHX Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 vifam7 translated one of the magazine articles where its mentioned. Kawamori wanted the head to take a certain shape, less narrow from the top I think. Anyways Bandai is not alone in having to change things for Kawamori's approval, Yamato has to go through him for their releases too. He is the reason we didn't get a brown 1/60 VF-0A. I hope we see production photos soon, I'm itching to see Ozma's in fighter mode, and also see what kind of coating these will have. I want to see gloss coating like on the chunkys. I hope Alto's 25 also has the ultraviolent tint that the VF-1A Hikaru reissue had. That tint was awesome. Cool, thanks. Ooo... gloss and ultraviolet coating. That can be quite promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickayesou Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 hyper hobby magazine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmegaD3k Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 I guess its not a huge deal but itll be nice for them to tweak the details. It doesnt seem like something that'll be that hard to change... but then again, I'm not positive on how the transformation works so I guess the cod/leg thing might be difficult. Who knows... PERFECT alterations! If only Bandai would make it look that good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Focker Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 among the many valid concerns about pre-ordering, this just had to pop up... now i have to go see a shrink before i pre-order. but seriously, what's stopping me from pre-ordering is not that it's still months away (some sites don't charge you until it is shippable), nor the price (seems reasonable enough for me), and definitely not the looks (which is already fantastic in the latest bandai pics despite the similarities to kermit which i think i can deal with given some therapy). rather, what i am considering is how they will be released. what got me thinking was this preview from the last episode we know that bandai will have vanilla releases of the VF-25 as they can get it to market the fastest. we also know that a prototype super pack is being worked on. we still haven't seen any protos of the armored pack but given that alto apparently will have one, increases the likelihood that bandai will make them. question is, how will bandai release them? A) vanilla alto, then alto with super, then alto with armored pack B) vanilla alto, then a super pack add-on and an armored pack add-on (like the ghost pack or the fold booster), or both could be in a mega add-on pack C) alto uber pack ala the new VF-1 1/60 v2 with fast/super packs of course there could be other permutations, but these are probably the main ones. obviously i prefer C to save on shipping, but will happily take B if that'll mean i can have at least a vanilla 25 sooner. the possibility of A sucks, and is mainly what's keeping me from pre-ordering, or heck even ordering it upon release. i realise this may be jumping the gun, but perhaps some of the bandai collectors can enlighten us on these possibilities. i myself have no clue how bandai goes about their releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 I hope the visor is going to be translucent green plastic and not just green paint on top of the base white plastic. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renkenjutsu Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 With the way the toy is turning out, I might settle with the better looking model kits instead The wide head and pelvis/leg misplacement is a deal breaker for me atm. *long sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transfan52 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 All this complaining and the production model isnt even finished yet... They still got at least until mid october to finalize everything and get the toy into production im sure bandai will tweak things in the coming months. Have some faith ppl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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