How to make Decals???

[big F]

Just wanted to ask couple of questions. Devin When you first made your decals did you sit there with a ruler and veriner etc and just map em out to scale in your pc or did you have a different aproach ?

I ask this as Im curently looking at making me some 1/55 scale decals. Now 1/72 is straight forward as I have plenty of hasegawa 1/72 decal sheets to use as templates and help measurements.

Also when practicing with my printer I just wanted to try the printer and paper out with some existing decals. My decals of choice are some hasegawa ones and a sheet of 1/72 wave ones. I scanned them in at the default setting and they look ok. when I scan them in at a high rate the resulting image is huge when viewed in PaintShop, and wont fit on the A4 page. What res do you sugest to get a goood print image and a lifesize image that dosnt need any shrinking or reizing to make it accurate.

Edited November 7, 2006 by big F

[promethuem5]

That's actually something I always wondered as well... especially when it comes to things like chest stripes which, on Dev's decals, almost always lined right up!

[Jasonc]

My guess would be that after you scan the 1/72 decals, you need to scan at a high res, then shrink in photoshop and save as some sort of vector file that will allow you to enlarge and shrink the pic without losing resolution. From there, it's just a matter of finding the exact size of the originals. I'm sure a few test runs would be needed to get it right.

I just thought of an idea for creating the 1/55 decals. Perhaps cutting paper shapes that fit your 1/55s, then scanning those and using Illustrator or Photoshop to create the final image will work. Just a guess though for some of the bigger decals. Some of the others you could just take from the Hasegawa kits and enlarge, cut, crop, bend in ps to get the desired fittings. Being fairly pro at Photoshop, this shouldn't be a problem, just a tedious job, and I can understand why Anasazi would have a hard time departing with his work. Perhaps if he decides to never return to the decal bus., and after some time has gone by, maybe he will sell off the masters, or if not, at least we all are working to get this going again.

I have access to a printer that prints white, but not sure how well it'll work, as it is a large commercial printer. Not sure how well it'll print on decal paper, and it prints on large spools. Perhaps it works for regular decal sized paper, and if it does, I could have a solution. Details to follow.

[Night Stalker]

Hello guys, first post here, but been doing this a long time.

A friend sent me here about decals since I make them. I am curious how much use or call there is for the Macross style decals? I build many Macross and Mospeada models. Sci-fi and anime is one of my greatest loves. I have the capability to make anything you need in a waterslide AND print white. Is this even useful or is this something that only a couple guys need.

I realize that a new guy wanting to offer any services brings red flags. So if you would like to know more about me or what I do, let me know. I would be happy to tell you and show you any pics of my work. I post at the RObot-Japan board as well as many diecast toy car forums.

BTW- you guys do some killer work!

[big F]

Hello guys, first post here, but been doing this a long time.

A friend sent me here about decals since I make them. I am curious how much use or call there is for the Macross style decals? I build many Macross and Mospeada models. Sci-fi and anime is one of my greatest loves. I have the capability to make anything you need in a waterslide AND print white. Is this even useful or is this something that only a couple guys need.

I realize that a new guy wanting to offer any services brings red flags. So if you would like to know more about me or what I do, let me know. I would be happy to tell you and show you any pics of my work. I post at the RObot-Japan board as well as many diecast toy car forums.

BTW- you guys do some killer work!

Well I think that if your able to do some of the work that Devin used to do for us then you will definatley be kept busy. There are many many members here who would Im sure be only too pleased to to give you orders. Theres a link in Anasazi37 (Devins) signature to his catalogue (low res) that will give you some ideas. Now as your already a Macros fan you`ll undoubtably know what your looking at. There are new models out and comming up that will need the custom touch.

Please post some example of your work and everyone will go from there Im sure.

On a side note I was thinking about how we can rate our decals produced by us. In this I mean my decal sheet may be great as far as I`m concerned but may be utter bilge as far as other more experienced members think. We need an independant MacrossWorld Adudicator of decals. To check Quality and such for anything members are thinking of mass producing. Anyone care to further this idea I can think of a few of the really experienced model/toy customisers who could fit the bill.

[Anasazi37]

I could definitely help with the adjudicating side of things. Since I'm not selling sets anymore, I'm technically independent.

Oh, and I'll be responding to your question about resolution, preparation, methods, etc. soon. It's an involved topic and I haven't had a lot of time to think about it and formulate a response, but I'll post my thoughts by this weekend.

Well I think that if your able to do some of the work that Devin used to do for us then you will definatley be kept busy. There are many many members here who would Im sure be only too pleased to to give you orders. Theres a link in Anasazi37 (Devins) signature to his catalogue (low res) that will give you some ideas. Now as your already a Macros fan you`ll undoubtably know what your looking at. There are new models out and comming up that will need the custom touch.

Please post some example of your work and everyone will go from there Im sure.

On a side note I was thinking about how we can rate our decals produced by us. In this I mean my decal sheet may be great as far as I`m concerned but may be utter bilge as far as other more experienced members think. We need an independant MacrossWorld Adudicator of decals. To check Quality and such for anything members are thinking of mass producing. Anyone care to further this idea I can think of a few of the really experienced model/toy customisers who could fit the bill.

[Night Stalker]

Well, I am not looking to corner the marker on this. And I surely don't want to step on anyones toes at all. A buddy said you guys might need some help that I am capable of doing and maybe filling a void in now.

I do toy design, prototyping, graphics and package design for well known toy manufacturures. Some designs I can claim, others I cannot since they do not exactly put every designers name on everything they work on. I am mostly in the diecast cars market. Hotwheels, Johnny Lightning, Shelby, etc... I also do my own custom designs that I sell on my own site. If you are getting your decals made on an Alps, it will be of the same quality I can do then. I design in Adobe Illust. CS, Photoshop, vectorize, and print on either a an Alps 1300 or an MD5000 and can do chrome and gold foils as well. Not that anything Macross would need that, but you get the idea.

As far as anything in the Macross/Robotech world, I only have pics of the Cyclone I just finished the decals for. I am still adding the finishing touches to it but you can get an idea by the pics below. If you want to see anything else of what I have done, my website is www.NightstalkerCustoms.com I have a ton of pics in the gallery. They are all cars, but the graphics are done the same way with the Alps.

http://www.lakefield.net/~lakeland/Cyclone1.JPG

http://www.lakefield.net/~lakeland/Cyclone2.JPG

Edited November 10, 2006 by Night Stalker

[big F]

Well I checked your website and I like what I see. Didnt realise that moding Hotwheels was so big. My friend collects them much to his GF`s anoyance, they are everywhere in the house.

Man I have one of the Beach Bombes from back in the day when I was a kid (early 80`s) didnt realise they still made em. Oh and I signed up for your email too. Trouble is now Im looking at my old toy cars and thinking about how I can mod em. Is that a good or bad thing

Edited November 10, 2006 by big F

[Jasonc]

Is this the same Night Stalker from Robotech.com??? We have all been working on our own sets of decals, and right now, I think we have some people that are working on 1/72, while others on 1/60 scale and 1/48 scale. I, myself, am trying to do the 1/55 scale decals at this time. If you do these decals and are able to print out white, that is great. I, along with a large number of people, are looking for decals and stickers. I would be happy to supply you with what I am working on, if you can create them for us. Perhaps we can work out an arrangement. I was thinking of getting an alps printer, but with the possible access of a printer that prints white, I may not need it. But I know I may definitely need your services.

[Night Stalker]

"Is this the same Night Stalker from Robotech.com???"

Yes that is me. But I rarley post, mostly just read.

[promethuem5]

Night Stalker, I'll be your boyfriend if you pick up where Devin left off.

Seriously, there's more than anough demand to make it worth your while... that is, IF you can keep up with the torrent of orders you're gonna get right out of the gates!

[Anasazi37]

I burned my way through at least six ALPS MD-5000 printers trying to keep up with demand here on MW. I actually lost count, which is a little scary. At $350 per printer (they give you a new one when you send a broken one in for repairs), it starts to add up. Then there are the expenses related to purchasing ink. Each cartridge is about $10 and you need a minimum of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black, and White to print decals. The cartridges don't last very long and the printing process is very wasteful. I should also mention that the white cartridges have only 1/4 the ink of the others, but they cost the same amount. Same goes for all of the other specialized colors like Metallic Gold. It's quite a racket. Then there's buying paper. The good stuff can cost a lot unless you buy in bulk. As supplies dwindle and printers break, the situation is only going to get worse.

I really hope an alternative, reliable, affordable printing method can be found or it will be the death of an entire cottage industry.

Night Stalker, I'll be your boyfriend if you pick up where Devin left off.

Seriously, there's more than anough demand to make it worth your while... that is, IF you can keep up with the torrent of orders you're gonna get right out of the gates!

[Jasonc]

Well, the best thing to do if it's gotta be an alps printer, go on ebay, and buy all the ink you can, when you can, and amass a large army of printer cartridges. Then, when it all disappears, that one person will be the last source of ink for the alps. I will have to pull my fathers ALPS printer out of hybernation. Hope it still works.

[Night Stalker]

I have enough ink to last me for the next 10 years. I get paper by the bulk of 1k sheets at a time. And my printers should be good. They are both new and are good for 10k cycles each run. I am good for a little while yet. lol

[Fly4victory]

Equipment is Canon Bubblejet S520 printer and the SuperCal Inkjet Aerosol Clear kit. Started with Hasegawa 1/72 VF-1A scanned at 800 dpi on a Epson 1670 and processed in MS paint. Consider this making decals on the cuff.

First MS Paint is not the program to use. Use Photoshop. When MS paint resizes the images the pixilation is awful. Taking 1/72 and blowing it up to 1/60 is not too bad but I recommend drawing from scratch and using scans of the originals in the scale you want as a guide. It may have been a function of the program but all images, either JPG or bit map, had to be cleaned up.

Printing must be monitored, the ink is not dry when the sheet exits the printer. So you must hold/guide it as it exists the printer to prevent smearing of the ink and binding of the paper. Also do not pull the paper or you will disrupt the printing pattern.

24 hours drying time is not enough. Neither is four days. The untreated ink can smear with the lightest touch and the cleanest hands. Solution is powder free latex gloves and still try not to touch the printed surface.

The printed decals need to be cut and then coated with the acrylic spray. This is no guarantee of success. Spay too much and the ink will smear. Spray too little and the decal will melt when in water.

The cut decals are put on inverted masking tape so they do not blow away when sprayed.

Plus, need to print, cut, and spray more than you need. I had almost a 50% failure rate due to mistakes in all phases of production to application.

Hot tap water worked for applying the decals. I did not use any solutions.

These decals have almost no shelf life the instant they are usable they must be used. Three day old decals from a known good production run failed.

The sprayed surface is very susceptible to damage, any defect will result in failure.

Inkjet decal production will not transfer to mass production or result in a product that I would feel safe selling.

[big F]

Thanks for the detailed insight Fly4victory. I had a feeling that the inkjet stuff would be like that. A few years ago I made some inkjet stickers for 1/10 scale RC cars and these were just as problematic. The ink stayed on but when it gets wet it just comes off. Add a coating in this case ultra thin sticky clear vinyl and it didnt have the wet problems but the decals were thick and didnt always conform to the lexan shell of the car.

I am gonna try the laser printer way and see if that is any better. Im currently working on a sheet for a 1/55. Im drawing it in a vector based file type so it can be hopefully scaled and not loose quality.

There are some other printer Makes that do the same as the Alps namely the OKI DP 5000 (Devin mentioned this one) and the Citizen Printiva range. The Oki printer takes the same Carts as the Alps do so im sure that while Alps may not make carts any more there will be scores of patern carts out there for some time to come.

Edited November 11, 2006 by big F

[Anasazi37]

Okay, I'll attempt to answer your question as succinctly as possible. As I mentioned before, this is a BIG topic, so I'll cover the basics here and you can ask more questions to flesh out details, if necessary. Here's an outline of my approach to making decals. It's more of a flowchart than anything and does involve disassembling your valk so you can do part scans (not for the faint of heart):

- Scan in the design you want to use as a decal. If you are intending to print the scanned design as is (not redraft it), you'll want at least 600 ppi. 1200ppi is better, 2400ppi is preferred. Files get to be quite large as you increase the ppi, so use one that won't kill your system. I work at 2400ppi, but I also have a dual core 64-bit system with 2GB of RAM. If you're going to be scaling up designs from 1/72 to work on 1/48, you should probably factor that in when you scan the original artwork and include a magnification percentage that is appropriate. In this case, 150% should do it since 1/48 is 1.5 times the size of 1/72.

- If the part of your valk this design is going to go on is fairly flat, take that part and place it on your scanner and scan it in at the same resolution as your design and keep the scaling/magnification at 100%.

- You'll need a graphics program that can handle layers for this next step. Copy your design and place it as a layer on top of the part scan. You can then "transform" that layer so it fits the part properly. This consists of stretching, rotating, and/or rescaling the design. Photoshop has a tool for this called Transform (CTRL+T).

- Once you're done transforming the design so it fits, you should copy it to a new document at the same resolution. This document will be the one you end up printing. It will likely have a ton of layers in it when you're done transforming all of your designs. You can rearrange all of them and print it when you're happy with the results.

- What if your design doesn't transform adequately? Well, you might have to redraft it so it works with the part in question. What I do at this point is take the part scan and design scan into Illustrator. I draw a new version of the design on top of the scanned version, then manipulate the new version until it works with the part scan. This can be a long and nasty process, depending on the complexity of the design and your comfort level with a program like Illustrator.

- What if the part is curved or very complex and it's too difficult to scan? What I do at this point is wrap the part in masking tape so that the destination surface is completely covered, then cut off the excess tape. With that done, I then pull the tape and transfer the "mask" to a flat sheet of paper. Once on the paper, I outline the mask with a fine-tipped black pen. Then I scan the paper and use the black outline as a guide for either transforming an existing design or drawing a new one in Illustrator that fits properly within the outline. That's how I did my Minmay Guard sets. A royal pain in the @ss, but those of you who have seen the results can appreciate how well the designs fit on a valk.

- I started out by scanning everything and working exclusively in Photoshop, now I work almost exclusively in Illustrator. The files got larger and larger and took longer and longer to print. For example, a typical multilayer PSD at 2400ppi could be upwards of 600MB. An Illustrator file of the same material could be as little as 200KB and prints instantly. The difference is in how the graphics are rendered. Photoshop is raster-based, while Illustrator is vector-based. With vector-based designs, you choose the print quality when you print, not when you create the file. So, even though the file is tiny, you can get excellent results at 2400ppi. If you invest the necessary time to learn how to render designs in Illustrator, you'll end up with higher-quality prints and you'll have greater flexibility when rendering designs. Illustrator doesn't work for everything, though. Items like the Sailor Minmay I keep in raster format because I didn't even want to attempt trying to redraw something that complex.

Like I said, this a big topic. I hope this information is useful.

Just wanted to ask couple of questions. Devin When you first made your decals did you sit there with a ruler and veriner etc and just map em out to scale in your pc or did you have a different aproach ?

I ask this as Im curently looking at making me some 1/55 scale decals. Now 1/72 is straight forward as I have plenty of hasegawa 1/72 decal sheets to use as templates and help measurements.

Also when practicing with my printer I just wanted to try the printer and paper out with some existing decals. My decals of choice are some hasegawa ones and a sheet of 1/72 wave ones. I scanned them in at the default setting and they look ok. when I scan them in at a high rate the resulting image is huge when viewed in PaintShop, and wont fit on the A4 page. What res do you sugest to get a goood print image and a lifesize image that dosnt need any shrinking or reizing to make it accurate.

[big F]

Thanks for the pointers Devin, your right about file sizes Last year I did a magazine cover and the file was just under a gig when in the memory and still a few hundred mb when on the HD. Took arround 10 mins to load it. Good job I got some extra ram.

I got hold of a copy of Illustrator CS and had a bit of a play. I have Paintshop and also another vector program (Serif draw plus I think I may have something worth looking at soon.

The tape trick makes sence, luckily with a 1/55 there arent many corners. Gonna rescan my Wave decals and try em on the printer next week. not going to bother with the Hasegawa one as its too much bother to get rid of the blue back ground properly.

[Anasazi37]

If your raster program has the ability to set whitepoints, getting rid of the blue background should be pretty easy. In Photoshop, you hit CTRL+L, then select the white-filled eyedropper, then click on the area you want to turn white. The only casualties are the white decals, though. They instantly blend into the background and are lost. Dealing with them is a whole different animal.

Thanks for the pointers Devin, your right about file sizes Last year I did a magazine cover and the file was just under a gig when in the memory and still a few hundred mb when on the HD. Took arround 10 mins to load it. Good job I got some extra ram.

I got hold of a copy of Illustrator CS and had a bit of a play. I have Paintshop and also another vector program (Serif draw plus I think I may have something worth looking at soon.

The tape trick makes sence, luckily with a 1/55 there arent many corners. Gonna rescan my Wave decals and try em on the printer next week. not going to bother with the Hasegawa one as its too much bother to get rid of the blue back ground properly.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Anasazi37

[Jasonc]

I'm curious about the OKI Data 5000 model. Is that still in production? If so, does anyone have any info on that printer, like price, accessibility of ink, and if it does in fact take the same cartridges as the Alps? This may be the fix, if it's still in production, or still supported by OKI.

[big F]

Thanks for the pointers Devin, just another thing I had to learn about P.Shop Tried it makes it so much easier. before I had just used the flood fill not as good by a long way.

I'm curious about the OKI Data 5000 model. Is that still in production? If so, does anyone have any info on that printer, like price, accessibility of ink, and if it does in fact take the same cartridges as the Alps? This may be the fix, if it's still in production, or still supported by OKI.

AFAIK the DP 5000 is also out of production, but OKI are quite good with support of older models added to the fact that as they are popular in offices in the U.K at least means you will probably be o.k for a while on carts add that to the big market of after market patern carts the future could be bright,the world could be a much brighter place at least for Macross decals anyhow.

[Anasazi37]

One thing to watch out for in Photoshop when you use the whitepoint tool is that it often washes out the colors--especially if you're removing a light blue background. It's easily fixed by reintroducing some contrast. Definitely beats the pants off of doing a flood fill or paint bucket, though.

Thanks for the pointers Devin, just another thing I had to learn about P.Shop Tried it makes it so much easier. before I had just used the flood fill not as good by a long way.

[VF-18S Hornet]

Hmmm.. I guess I would also need those scans of every scale from every different company that has ever made a Valkyrie over the past few years and I don't have access to them. It would also take me forever to save enough to buy a graphics software such as Adobe photoshop and a scanner let alone a computer to support the software just to make decals.

Edited November 18, 2006 by VF-18S Hornet

[Jasonc]

I have begun my work into creating vector based graphics on illustrator, based off of The Hasegawa decals, and formatted like how Devin used to format them. I must say, creating decals from scratch is no easy task, but I have gotten the hang of doing it now, and it shouldn't be too long before I have my first set for the 1/55s done. The only thing, is that I haven't grabbed that alps printer yet. Soon, my friends, soon.

What I've been trying to figure out is why there isn't a company out there that doesn't produce one of these types of printers, knowing there is a demand for them, as small as it may or may not be. They could corner the market on these dye sublimation printers.

[big F]

What I've been trying to figure out is why there isn't a company out there that doesn't produce one of these types of printers, knowing there is a demand for them, as small as it may or may not be. They could corner the market on these dye sublimation printers.

I had though that too. After all everything thats been made is now obselete.

[Jasonc]

It's just strange that knowing what these printers have the ability to do soooo much, but they are doing away with them. I mean, the ability to make foil printing, and all that. What do the industry people use to print these types of projects using chrome, gold, and white?

[Night Stalker]

Well, if you guys are serious about this and there is a call for these. I am about ready to go. Devin and I are discussing things and working out the details to make this happen. After that, you can get whatever you need.

I will even get a webpage started for your easy viewing.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Night Stalker

[promethuem5]

Oh man, I'm excited to see what you come out with... once I'm not so strapped for cash I will get a set or two.... and hoefully you can make the decals for the YF-19 1/60 when it coems out with a little of Devin's help.

[big F]

Thats real good news

I got my Minmay Guard decals from the seller on eBay today. I go to say they are crisp and every bit as good as the hasegawa ones. you even get a color print of panits and where they all go on photo paper.

Unless anyones gonna do it. Im going to see if i can make some for a 1/55. That is unless Devin has a deal going with Nightstalker,

[Jasonc]

that's what I'd like to know. Is there gonna be a setup where we can get the old Anasazi decals? If so, I will have no need to find my old Alps printer, and I will have no need to do these. I had been doing them in Illustrator, and planned to start making high res. decal sets, but if it's already in the works, then I can stop where I'm at.

[Night Stalker]

I am still working out details wiht Devin so nothing is final just yet. But if it all works good, and it works out the way I am hoping, they will be the same exact decals you have been getting from Anasazi (Devin) They will be the same files, printed the same way on the same printer, and coated the same way. That way you will get the same great service and product and quality you have come to expect. Thats what we are striving for anyway.

The only difference is you will go to a different website to get them. And they will come in a different package too.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Night Stalker

[mister_e]

Night Stalker,

Do you plan to produce both decals and stickers? or just decals?

[David Hingtgen]

Is there a need to have a "quasi-pre-order" list so that what's highest in demand is known? My needs are currently all 1/60:

VF-1J Milia Super

VF-1S Roy Strike

And the new YF-19! I don't even have it yet, but I need decals, as we know the Yamato stickers will suck.

And I might want a 1/48 low-vis set, to mix and match (my Milia will have a customized scheme---mostly normal, but part low-vis)

[Night Stalker]

"Do you plan to produce both decals and stickers? or just decals?"

I never thought about that. Does he do both? Or just waterslides? I have the ability to do both ways. I have a Vinyl cutter/plotter, thermal vinyl printer, a laser printer, and 2 Alps printers. I do custom work and prototyping for major diecast companies, so I am set up pretty good to get what I need done.

As far as a pre-list to know whats hot? Yeah that might be good actually. I can get those ready first and be ready when the time is eeded.

[big F]

May be one to consider also is a What we`d like to see. That way if lots of people say thay woul dlike a particualr set made in a size or such then you can get down to it. For example I`d like to see a set of wheite decals for a jet black stealth type vf1 or some pink decals for a girl pilot. You get the idea.