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Spoiler pics from 4chan :p:lol:

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Edited by Anubis

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Here's a real promo pic

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Another Gundam thing that I'd like to see is the very original vision of Tomino about Gundam, without any MSs but just starship trooper-ish powered armors instead, and absolutely no passage on Earth but all the story happening into 'the Universe' like he did in his novel. Some sort of adaptation of the 'For the Barrel' manga basically, with or without revisited designs, as long as they're well done I don't really care in fact...

Edit: spell thingies

387945[/snapback]

For the Barrel was a basic retelling of the GUndam series, only instead of Gundams, they were called 'Gunboys'.

MAHQ for Mecha

'Newtypes' were called 'Streamers' and colonies were called 'barrels' (Hence, For the Barrel). It was run by Newtype for a time but then disconitnued, a shame since it seems much more interesting than any other rendition of the Gundam series. Perhaps it's because Junji Ohkubo does the mecha designs (as opposed to more re-copied Okawara designs), which gives the series an origional, metallic, functional feel to it.

Needless to say, if For the Barrel was done as an animated production rather than a manga, I'd pick it up in a hearbeat reguardless if I had to import it or not. Ohkubo's designs deserve life outside of Steel Battalion.

388894[/snapback]

Thanks for the pointers :)

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Nope but being the most-developed of the gundam universes isn't it time to move on from constant war over the same issue?

389773[/snapback]

I'm not going to quote your jazillion line thing, but basically I think aliens have no place in Gundam. Gundam is about how there are "good" people and "bad" people and any group is composed of both. But it's about people. Aliens would take Gundam away from that, just like a Gundam where they were fighting an army of sentient robots would take it away. I don't think it's appropriate. Gundam is definitely about war, and I agree the Federation/Colonies thing is pretty played out. A new concept would be nice. But the AU stories with the exception of G Gundam insist on being tepid retellings of the original earth/colonies war. Because, hell, it worked the first time, why not?!

They could have a war over just about anything else and still have it be about people fighting people and I would be fine with it.

I like most of the UC stuff (okay, not most, but a lot, I still think 0083 is badly written crap, ZZ is well-animated but braindead, Victory is horrible et cetera), but G Gundam is really the only AU worthwhile in my opinion, because it's the only Gundam that is brave enough to do something -different-. Even Turn A's moon/Earth thing is pretty similar to the colonies/Earth thing, though Turn A is pretty wildly different. Mayyyyybe I can give Turn A credit for being different as well, but Wing, X, SEED, they're all hamfisted rehashes of the damn One Year War. Write a new story for Christ's sake, but UFOs are not necessary.

Edited by Ginrai

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Nope but being the most-developed of the gundam universes isn't it time to move on from constant war over the same issue?

389773[/snapback]

I'm not going to quote your jazillion line thing, but basically I think aliens have no place in Gundam. Gundam is about how there are "good" people and "bad" people and any group is composed of both. But it's about people. Aliens would take Gundam away from that, just like a Gundam where they were fighting an army of sentient robots would take it away. I don't think it's appropriate. Gundam is definitely about war, and I agree the Federation/Colonies thing is pretty played out. A new concept would be nice. But the AU stories with the exception of G Gundam insist on being tepid retellings of the original earth/colonies war. Because, hell, it worked the first time, why not?!

They could have a war over just about anything else and still have it be about people fighting people and I would be fine with it.

I like most of the UC stuff (okay, not most, but a lot, I still think 0083 is badly written crap, ZZ is well-animated but braindead, Victory is horrible et cetera), but G Gundam is really the only AU worthwhile in my opinion, because it's the only Gundam that is brave enough to do something -different-. Even Turn A's moon/Earth thing is pretty similar to the colonies/Earth thing, though Turn A is pretty wildly different. Mayyyyybe I can give Turn A credit for being different as well, but Wing, X, SEED, they're all hamfisted rehashes of the damn One Year War. Write a new story for Christ's sake, but UFOs are not necessary.

390390[/snapback]

You can easily replace the Devil Gundam thing in G Gundam with alien viral infection and have pretty much the same story. And making a Gundam show with aliens seem to qualify as 'brave enough to do something -different-'. ;)

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Another Gundam thing that I'd like to see is the very original vision of Tomino about Gundam, without any MSs but just starship trooper-ish powered armors instead, and absolutely no passage on Earth but all the story happening into 'the Universe' like he did in his novel. Some sort of adaptation of the 'For the Barrel' manga basically, with or without revisited designs, as long as they're well done I don't really care in fact...

Edit: spell thingies

387945[/snapback]

For the Barrel was a basic retelling of the GUndam series, only instead of Gundams, they were called 'Gunboys'.

MAHQ for Mecha

'Newtypes' were called 'Streamers' and colonies were called 'barrels' (Hence, For the Barrel). It was run by Newtype for a time but then disconitnued, a shame since it seems much more interesting than any other rendition of the Gundam series. Perhaps it's because Junji Ohkubo does the mecha designs (as opposed to more re-copied Okawara designs), which gives the series an origional, metallic, functional feel to it.

Needless to say, if For the Barrel was done as an animated production rather than a manga, I'd pick it up in a hearbeat reguardless if I had to import it or not. Ohkubo's designs deserve life outside of Steel Battalion.

388894[/snapback]

Thanks for the pointers :)

390233[/snapback]

I thought that Op was saying "For the Barel power armors", so I felt I had to clarify.

And I'm one of the few people who will champion this nearly invisible series. Like Orguss, which also has very few fans.

You can easily replace the Devil Gundam thing in G Gundam with alien viral infection and have pretty much the same story. And making a Gundam show with aliens seem to qualify as 'brave enough to do something -different-'. ;)

I think one of the trademarks about Gundam is keeping away from alien invasions and doing something earth-bound, as in by the actions of human beings. I know with G-Gundam this is a little stretched, but even with series like Gundam X and Turn-A, which implies humankind leaving the solar system (Turn-X was built outside of the solar system), aliens were never mentioned.

Edited by Boxer

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Ok how about a comet strikes the earth killing all the people on earth. The newtypes with thier evolved brains then take over earth for themselves and for a long time there is no war. Because newtypes are the peaceful communicative ones right?

Then as technology advances, the newtypes with thier evolved senses get a signal of aliens from other planets. But the aliens are like humanoid in appearance. (they were once inhabitants on earth before leaving it) You know how in the x-men when Professor Xavier kinda can communicate with his mind? Well that sparks interest in the search for other life out there based on an ability to communicate thought through space.

The aliens themselves would not be aliens but just highly evolved humans who just look slightly different. (didn't they do this in yamato? The people look identical to us)

So this way they can have the human drama, and the aliens wouldn't necesarily be evil invaders but have all the same faults as humans. But the more highly evolved humans with better technology actually treat the weaker humans who are less evolved as threats. (really a class struggle where the haves enslave the have-nots because they are scared of them) So we have a war between newtypes, evolved humans, (thier mecha look completely different to gundams the way the "turn A" looks completely different to anything else) and maybe survivors who have been mutated and adapted to the post apoc earth. (who are now like the treasure hunters seen in Gundam X scavenging for the scrap and mecha parts to make custom machines)

The newtypes would then have to join forces with the oldtypes and we have an epic struggle between psychics who are better at space combat and reading moves and emotions, and old types who have more experience under gravity and ground combat and being physically more tough... against a threat more powerful than either of them. Essentially it would be like the game star craft where you had zerg (low tech who are organic in thier weapons: things like using gas to poison things, or biological weapons that are numerous and cheap to produce) terran (medium tech but physically weak without tools) and Protoss (the highly evolved guys who who rely too much on infrastructure to live but are deadly if a little reliant on expensive-to-make things)

If they made it an AU, and made it about people just struggling for power (no good guys, just people fighting for thier own side) then I think we would see more original looking mecha because each side has thier own way of fighting. The thing that I just realised after watching SEED is how many mecha look the exact same! I couldn't tell which mecha was which when it got to SEED Destiny because I couldn't tell the very-similar models apart. It got to a point where the fighting was confusing.

The Zaku on the other hand has a distinct look to it that serates it from the gundam so it stands out in a fight and has its own weakness and strengths. I guess I want a real robot show that feels like little details matter in combat and the technology being used is unique to specific side.

Like how in macross you got the valk and the Qrau, and the battlepods, and the destroids etc that is the kind of variation I want to see in gundam. The problem is each side can so easily steal technology off each others because they are at about 50/50 in power. It wouldn't happen so much if one side had actually WON and defeated the other side to a point where the other guy had to give up. So the wars keep going on and on and on which I think is a bit silly. Maybe it would be better for once that one side wins and suffers enormous casualties and the other side loses and can't fight back because the winning side has such a huge technological advantage?

In Gundam Wing at least it felt nice and self-contained because the dictator was beaten and you felt like: this is the end! The good guys win. Similar to how in star wars when the emperor finally fell down that shaft never to be seen again. You would think any events after the war, would result in long peace. And people would progress and move on, and instead of fighting over the same thing, they fight over other things. In macross the anti-UN got thier butts kicked. In star wars the jedi were almost wiped out completely. (the prequel trilogy is essentially a story about how the good guys lost) Some guys had to lose and the winning side got to have its way for a time. You know what I mean?

Edited by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

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You can easily replace the Devil Gundam thing in G Gundam with alien viral infection and have pretty much the same story.  And making a Gundam show with aliens seem to qualify as 'brave enough to do something -different-'.  ;)

390429[/snapback]

No you can't, that ruins the entire redemption arc for Koji. It has to be manmade for that to work.

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Dudem LowViz Lurker, what's your boner for aliens about? Gundam is -not about that-. It avoids the sci-fi (especially giant robot) cliche of humans fighting aliens. The humans vs. aliens thing makes morality simple and black and white. They are non-human, they are bad guys, they hate mankind, therefore it's okay to kill them. Macross dillutes this somewhat by suggesting that even though they're aliens they're essentially people, but humans driving robots fighting aliens is a hoary old mecha cliche. See the classics like Gredizer and a zillion other shows for more information.

Gundam bucked lots of trends. Its robots were mass produced tools instead of super powerful undefeatable one of a kind behemoths. The pilots were all gung ho never say die types, so Gundam's protagonist is a wussy kid in over his head.

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Seriously who wants to have aliens in a Gundam show, I mean there are other robot shows with aliens and like Ginrai said watch Grendaizer and from me Combattler-V and Voltus-V and why go far you got the Voltron series.

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Frankly I'd much rather see aliens in Gundam than another Seed rehash. Gundam's already beaten a dead horse into a fine red mist.

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Frankly I'd much rather see aliens in Gundam than another Seed rehash.  Gundam's already beaten a dead horse into a fine red mist.

390818[/snapback]

I think it's a rule that for Gundam...we don't involve people beyond our own solar system (i.e. humans only). And since we seem to be the only ones in this neck of the woods....

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I definitely agree that Gundam needs to do -something- new, but I don't think -anything- new is the way to go. War between humans is fine, just fine some new factions and a new reason to fight. How about colonies at war with each other? A Federation civil war? Lots of things that haven't been explored.

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As long as it takes place in the UC.

And as long as they keep the Zeon outfits Nazi-licious.

Edited by Rocket Punch

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Two words: WINGED WHALE

391086[/snapback]

Something conveniently not mentioned again in the entirety of Destiny. Also only mentioned what, twice in the first series? It would have been nice to touch on what the deal was a little more, but it just didn't fit with that they set out to do with SEED.

I'm in the camp of keep it humans vs each other. It's the whole point of Gundam. The cruelty of war, overpopulation/pollution of the earth, human evolution that is spurred by escaping Earth's gravity. The AU's take more liberty from there, but at least keep something of that in there somewhere. Even G-Gundam, with the Earth is largely war-torn and polluted.

If they throw in aliens to fight then it kind of becomes Macross or any other giant robot show.

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How about colonies at war with each other? A Federation civil war? Lots of things that haven't been explored.

So long as they break from the tired concept of evolved humans vs unevolved humans. And not make the bad guys steal the robot and its technology and clone that technology so all robots essentially look the same. That was the thing I didn't like about seed destiny.

There were a few designs like the Gaia gundam that I liked because we saw a dog mecha. I figure if they are going to explain seed mode maybe they could explain it as a gift that is spiritual (perhaps BC knows all about the evolution of humans but wants to keep it a secret: the heightened senses will be a threat to security because they are scared thier elite soldiers will be obsolete and can't control things) not genetic or to do with something that relates to going to space. It would be controversial and a breath of fresh air if they had a person on earth who was a newtype and had better ability due to his determination, training and skill not because of what environment he is born and this breaks from the theory that going to space makes you a nicer person who cares about mother earth and doesn't get into fights.

You know like in Metal Gear Solid 1 where snake manages to beat the bad guy and it is found later that the bad guy had the better genes but snake overcame that with his skills and personality and experiences. That was a concept I liked.

I'm sick of this idea that going into space makes you a god that allows you to win a war single handedly which is why I found the non-newtype stories like 8th MS Team much closer to realism because anyone could die at any minute and there was a sense of danger. An ace didn't have to be a super ace that could dodge 50 million bit attacks simultaneously, he just had to use common sense and tactics and understand his limits. As an example in star wars they kinda mentioned that some of it was to do with physical stuff (like having high midiclorons count) but the other half is your personality, skill, experience, and willpower. In seed destiny it is seen by dullindal that your genes should automatically determine your path ignoring any other factor like a person's will to follow thier dreams, thier determination to follow through with something and breaking and these gave the person enough potential to break from thier limits and keep themselves improving etc.. (sorta like if you take two twins, put one of them in one environment and give them different parents and encourage them to use certains skill more, and take the other twin in another environment and given them different parents and only work thier natural skills, then the two twins in adult life wil probably look, behave and act differently - its more then just genes)

I think that seed mode should have nothing to do with gravity or genes but be about a person's willingness to tap into that part of thier spirit that makes them go down a particular path. So there will be highly learned old men with SEED mode, people who are born with intuition at an early age, some who just learn to develop it through experience etc. Because it's really racist in a sense to label evolution as going down a specific path and NOT in another path. Evolution rewards a species that has a function that is useful to the environment that person is in. If humans can't solve thier problem on earth what makes it any different going to space? Ultimately the war has more to do with one side wanting power and the other side wanting that power too. Whoever has the power gets to control the other. This is something that is common to man from ancient times and won't ever change.

I think macross is a lot more honest about things even though you could call it black and white because of the use of aliens.

The aliens weren't evil, it was the intentions of the people trying to experiment with new weapons to assert control over others that led to the extinction of the PC. In yamato although the aliens had the upper hand, their planet was going to die because it was thier time to go. We only thought they were evil because they happened to have the upper hand. I'm pretty sure aliens won't destroy gundam if handled properly. The aliens would have the upper hand, the humans would be the underdog beating them using cunning, better tactics and original ideas. Mecha would not have to look identical because the aliens use different technology to us which is hard toreverse engineer, and this would have an effect on what their mecha look like.

Edited by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

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Sorry man- Gundam is just not done with aliens and things that are far beyond the realm of scientific possibility. As Aliens are not a proven fact, they don't exist in Gundam. Mobile suits are about as close to disbeleif as you're gonna get.

Besides, as everyone says, Gundam is a war drama of man versus man. In some of the AU stories, it's implied mankind has left the solar system, but in the end no extraterrestrials were involved... and instead it's more of a war between the inhabitants of space and the inhabitants of earth.

Still, yeah, we do have plenty of room to go other places. If we want to go far out there, what about a story of mobile suit conflict on another planet, be it in the solar system or not? A martian civil war perhaps- where midway through the series the Jupiter energy fleet shows up and drops some new enemy action on our protagonists.

Or how about an OAV series (possibly UC), set inside one space colony? Think 8th team in space- except the dangers are far worse since space is not a friendly place without a helmet.

And then again, ther'es always For the Barrel :D

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Hey guys, I noticed that this is a Gundam thread that mainly centers on the UC AC series of shows but does anybody like SD Gundam Force because I honestly do and I think it's rather cute funny and action packed for somewhat of a childish looking 3-D cel-shaded anime series1MHO . I especially liked the Zako Zako hour at then end of the show; those three Zako's really crack me up. It's a shame that CN took it off the air for two years now but I can't wait till CN get's the second season to it.

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While not an anime series, I picked up at Barnes and Noble this morning a new OYW side story Manga... Lost War or soemthing like that... it's basically another 08th MS Team, with those designs and stuff, so I was hooked without even opening it. I'll post up more info later.

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The 3-D cell shaded "SD gundam force" was for children, which says much if you're an uber fan of the series (other than the Zako hour- everyone loved that).

and is it me or does every other alternate universe contiuity have to name it's Gundams? Can't we just re-introduce the title mobile suit as just "The Gundam" with a new model name?

or is that sacreligeious? :p

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Gundam's have had names since Zeta, that's no big surprise.

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Sorry man- Gundam is just not done with aliens and things that are far beyond the realm of scientific possibility. As Aliens are not a proven fact, they don't exist in Gundam. Mobile suits are about as close to disbeleif as you're gonna get.

Thanks for the laugh!

I must have missed when mobile suits gaining super powers with the help of spirits of the dead entered the realm of scientific possibility.

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Hey all,

I read thru that Manga today, Lost War Chronicles, and it was pretty badass. It uses the 08th MS Team mecha, and takes the role of a Spec Ops team assigned to do really offbeat and intense missions for the sake of testing equipment and collecting data. The captian of the squad is the first person to drive the RX-79[G] and fights the first Dom prototype in the 8th MS Team style GM. Rwally neat behind the scenes stuff, even if it isn't very original at this point.

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Lost War Chronicles is actually based on the PS2 game of the same name, and the manga was originally serialized in the Gundam Ace monthly magazine.

If your PS2 can play Japanese games, then I highly recommend picking up a copy. You can get a new copy cheap as it is now part of Bandai's Gundam Best series of value edition games. Even though the game uses the same engine as Journey to Jaburo (Horrible, HORRIBLE game), the developers tweaked the engine so much you can hardly tell this game uses the same engine based on the way the controls feel and how responsive the MS move. The selection of suits include pretty much everything from MSG, 0080 and 08th MS Team, even the GP-01 is included too! You'll definitely have a blast with this game.

Don't bother waiting for a US release, Bandai pretty much have this policy of keeping better games as Japanese domestic release only, while we get all the crap here.

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Hmm...great, another game to get a PS2 for... it's on my to-do list, to say the least. So is that really the policy for pretty much all Bandai games? Maybe I should just suck it up and buy the Japan release of the PSP Gundam game too...

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I must have missed when mobile suits gaining super powers with the help of spirits of the dead entered the realm of scientific possibility.

Science my ass.

Actually many of the things you see happening in these shows is almost to a level of god-like ability. Dodging numerous bit attack from different directions simultaneously, surviving an explosion and not dying (gundam wing), using melee weapons like giant medieval axes (what the hell?), pulling off manuevers that would kill a pilot, (it's never explained how Hiro could beat Mobile Dolls which are unmanned and supposed to be able to pull off manuevers that are impossible for humans to survive due to the limits of the human body) having fictional science to explain why people can't use guided missiles etc etc (minovsky particles?)

Now I like real robot shows but you have to admit many things in them are much closer to fantasy (like star wars) judging by the many feats of the hero (able to win a war singlehandedly - see heero in gundam wing use a giant gun that can take on a whole army of robots with a single shot (!) much like the SDF1 main cannon) more than real science.

If there were aliens: you could still have human to human wars so it won't destroy that part. Don't want to leave the solar system? Have the aliens come to us. Don't like that aliens are going to make it a good guy vs bad guy show? Make the aliens easy to sympathise with. (ie like in yamato where they are on the edge of extinction despite having a high level of sophistication or in macross where the aliens are just that much more superior than us to make us almost insignificant in the grand scheme of things) Think it is not scientific enough? Invent poo like the minovsky particle. Use your imagination FFS.

One of the things I liked about Turn A was how people had to fight robots using propeller planes and and dig for ancient treasure to become more technologically advanced for example. It might seem funny on paper but it worked out pretty cool in the show. (and was refreshing because there was a difference in power and technological advancement - what I would like to see is the human race in that position of the 'underdog' who has to play catch-up to the aliens in technological advancement and relying mainly on cunning and tactics to beat them over raw numbers or brute strength initially. In war one side should comes up with the idea, the other side has to innovate, by coming up with a counter strategy, and the cycle repeats...but...each side has thier own way of fighting to make them unique. Don't just throw clones of the gundam like they did in seed destiny. That was just capitalising on the popularity of the gundam to make more money, which imo, is boring to watch in fights and can be confusing. At least in G gundam each one was easily identifiable because they had a gimmick that made them unique)

What it all boils down to in the end is a fight for power. (no wrong or right) Just usually one side wishes it owned and controlled the other and had a truly global empire (both space and earth) so that there was no enemy left to fight and and resistance could be silenced/overpowered or people kept happy through entertainment (think roman empire with corruption but global. Or how about the main villain at the end of gundam wing movie, instead of being defeated, he has his way). The only thing that could threaten global empire would be an external threat to reset the balance of power. I guess the next logical step would be an alien or a type of being that man has very little understanding of. But they can tie it to humans in some way - the way "the force" is not quite real or physical but more spiritual, but yet the 'midicloron' thing in the PT took some of the mysteriousness away by adding a physical "origin story" explanation to why certain people like yoda or anakin are so powerful. What bothered me about gundam is why people do not freak out over why the hero can pull off his moves so easily and act normal about it.

You can't say "amuro just trained his butt off and this is why he is good" because he is a 'one of a kind' super ace and it is unnatural for someone to be that good. Explaining this 'power' is what I want, because I never felt satisfied with SEED mode in gundam seed. You gotta EXPLAIN sh!t and flesh this out more. The whole "his brain was held down by gravity so he couldn't access the hidden potential" is kinda silly and sounds more like propaganda by spacenoids to make them feel superior; like white supremecists telling people skin color is what determines abilty, than a proper explanation. Because the earthnoids themselves invented the frickin gundam in the first place, showing that there is very little to back up the theory that one person is any more "evolved" than another, and instead each side is only changing to best suit the environment rather than making one 'better' than the other. (ie a mouse is small so it can crawl through holes to escape predators. A giraffe has a long neck so it can reach the food in the trees etc They are good at survival for different reasons. So what I want is for there to be more distinction between groups, not just one side stealing the other guys tactics and cloning it, but different sides fighting in unique ways with unique mecha and ideas)

Edited by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

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What bothered me about gundam is why people do not freak out over why the hero can pull off his moves so easily and act normal about it.

393289[/snapback]

IIRC, Gundam F-91 clearly shows this aspect of the newtype concept, in depicting newtypes as some sort of monsters at least partially responsible of the wars of the past. I believe it's somewhere around the middle of the movie, after Seabook has destroyed a Crossbone platoon almost single-handedly with the F-91

As for the rest of your post: true, a lot of things are not explained but is it really that important? Human psychology is often responsible of a lot of limitations, history demonstrates how much propaganda can influence ways of thinking (your example of the supremacists is right on the point, there's more...) as well as education or culture as a whole

Personnally, I like this idea of mankind being pulled down by gravity: it's a bit symbolic but it's been a while since Science-Fiction doesn't extrapolate on "hard sciences" (quantum physics, astrophysics, etc,...) only but on "human sciences" (psychology, ethnology, etc,...) as well, this is often called Speculative Fiction. This gives a more human aspect to the various things and events of a show: all these characters in any Gundam anime are supposed to be human after all, with their strengthes and their weaknesses, their quality and their defaults, their convictions and their doubts, and more...

I often have difficulty to handle these so-called alien psychologies in SF stories (and I've read hundreds of SF stories since about 25 years now...): they almost always look silly to me, or, to be more precise, they look caricatural and simplistic. For me, Gundam is more the heir of the classic litterature which explores the human psyche since thousands of years: ask to any major writer and this person will probably tell you there's nothing more challenging and deeper than the human nature (maybe this is why Macross is so much interesting btw, because all the aliens involved have something to do with Mankind, or the other way around if you prefer...)

That's why I'd really prefer to not see any aliens in Gundam: this idea just doesn't fit the whole Gundam concept IMO :)

You seem to have a lot of ideas, 1/1 LowViz Lurker: did you already envisage to write your own stories? Build scenarii and propose them to some artists, in order to make some sort of web comics for example: you may like this far much more than you think... Well, that's just an idea :p

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