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I like the way you think but what about maybe the onion night finally being given the chance to end her with a little pseudo fatherly vengeance.

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I'm thinking we should keep all the show talk over here for book readers from now on. The show watchers on this forum seem to have little interest in any plot discussion that doesn't involve fighting. I don't know how many ways I can tell them we don't know what's going to happen, and it doesn't appear that I can comment on anything that seems interesting without being accused of having insider knowledge based on the books.

Is there a single person among you who thinks the developing plotlines involving Melisandra and Shireen are filler? Anyone?

Edited by Duke Togo

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That's one of those episodes you don't forget. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

But, the North Remembers, and this Mummer's farce is almost at an end.

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I like Shireen.

The North Remembers but I don't know if the Double D's do. haha

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I felt a little sick at the end of that episode. I always despised Sansa's lack of a backbone in the books, but I still don't want to see bad things happen to her, I desperately wanted her to attack or kill Ramsey's she-devil, or even to go ahead and waste Reek to assert herself to show Ramsey she is done being a push over and get just a smidgen of revenge for his betrayal of her family, oh well.

And are we now going to have Margery be the one stripped and head shaved to do the walk of shame instead of Cersei? WTF? Tommen better grow a pair and rectify this business....

Edited by Ghadrack

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I don't think this is going unpunished, Ghad. And Margery was taken prisoner in the books as well.

Edited by Duke Togo

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Well I think the show writers have done what they hoped in making the book readers uncertain about the future of the story in the show, given their penchant for amalgamating characters in the show, Aside from the fact that I expect they will end the show using GRRM's broad stroke character clash and vision of the ultimate victors, I'm at a point where I expect all bets are off.

Since it is such an easy "Holy cow" type moment, and they seem to have abandoned the Lady Stoneheart storyline, I'm seriously expecting that they've pocketed that gem to use later during a lull or to build towards the finale and have Ramsey or someone in his cadre kill Sansa now and to have the Thoros the Red Priest somehow come along and raise Sansa as a stand-in Lady Stoneheart and for that to somehow dovetail with the new Brienne storylines to evolve into a Revenant Brienne / Undead Mountain clash (perhaps with a reappearance of a Redeemed Hound, but I think they are saving the hound for Arya's return as a faceless one for a really painful scene of some sort) as part of the lead in to an ultimate dragon / Ice King battle for Westeros.

Edited by Ghadrack

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Sansa doesn't have to die to become Lady Stoneheart. LSH is just s vengeful character. I think it's way more likely Sansa goes Rat Cook here. Though, I'm aware they may just get out of Dodge a la Jeyne's escape in the books. They're certainly set up for it.

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I don't disagree, but honestly, if they are looking for a shock and awe type scene to spice up the show, it wouldn't surprise me to have them kill her off then bring her back as a spirit of vengeance type character. I definitely could see them having Theon running her into a trap during a trick escape plan and having her end up recaptured by Ramsey. Who knows.

And not to be too much of a whiny book purist but where the hell are the wolves? I don't think that GRRM spent all that time developing all of the material around the Stark kids magical link to the Winterwolves, Nymeria roaming Westeros with an ever growing army of wolves killing the enemies of the North and Bran's link to be able to step into the form of an animal for them to just disappear at the end of the story.

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There seems to have been a concerted effort to cut down on the number of supernatural elements in the show. I don't know if this is budget related, or they thought a more grounded series would reach a wider audience.

Edited by Duke Togo

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I wanted to share some comments/thoughts from part of an e-mail I sent Joanna Robinson of the "A Cast of Kings" and "A Storm of Spoilers" podcasts:

First and foremost I do not believe this means Sansa devolves into Jeyne Poole. One may be taking the other's place, but they are certainly different characters with different stories. We know from the books that an escape takes place, and her first night with Ramsay may be the impetus that drives that plot forward. I fully believe that Sansa will be the agent of her own escape, using the support of people around her. This is hinted at in the preview for next week's episode. And while Theon may "save" Sansa in a crucial moment when the escape goes sideways (as we know it will), I have little doubt that Sansa is going to be the one in the driver's seat.

Secondly, I also see this horrid turn of events as a way for Sansa to see through Littlefinger's bullshit and know not to trust him. While she is physically in the control of the Boltons, there is little doubt she has psychologically been in the control of Littlefinger; even with her "transformation," she's followed his lead. I hope I'm right, but it's only a guess. At some point that break has to happen, right?

My third and final thought addresses something you brought up during the show, about why have the Winterfell plot at all. I have a feeling it's because of Jon Snow's story. We know from the book and the show that he won't march on Winterfell for Stannis, even with the promise of his family's name and the Lord Paramountcy. But we do know from the books that he's willing to try to raise an army and march south when he believes Arya to be at Winterfell. This, of course, leads to the mutiny. Jon needs a reason to march south in the show, and they've set that up to be Sansa.

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I agree that that will most likely be the way it plays out in the show, BUT, the only problem I see is that it is not Arya. Jon had a special relationship with Arya and was very close to her. I don't think he was all that close to Sansa and always got the feeling that Sansa was like Catlyn,and didn't care for Jon or any bastard for that matter, as they were both kind of upity when it came to "low born" people. As if they where automatically bad people and "high born" people where automatically given the benefit of the doubt. Look how that has played out for both of them.

Chris

Edited by Dobber

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I agree that that will most likely be the way it plays out in the show, BUT, the only problem I see is that it is not Arya. Jon had a special relationship with Arya and was very close to her. I don't think he was all that close to Sansa and always got the feeling that Sansa was like Catlyn,and didn't care for Jon or any bastard for that matter, as they were both kind of upity when it came to "low born" people. As if they where automatically bad people and "high born" people where automatically given the benefit of the doubt. Look how that has played out for both of them.

Chris

Right, but their close relationship is played up much more in the book than the show.

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You wonder if Brienne of Tarth will find out about the rape, perhaps find these supporters of the North and organize a rescue mission to get Sansa? That would be fun, maybe hack Ramsey up into a million pieces for good measure.

Then again.... I could be completely wrong as I've yet to read the books.

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You wonder if Brienne of Tarth will find out about the rape, perhaps find these supporters of the North and organize a rescue mission to get Sansa? That would be fun, maybe hack Ramsey up into a million pieces for good measure.

Then again.... I could be completely wrong as I've yet to read the books.

Not a problem in this case, the plot going on in the books involves different characters.

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Not a problem in this case, the plot going on in the books involves different characters.

Good to know, though I just realized I posted in the wrong thread, meant to be in the TV section... whoops! :p

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I was thinking you are awfully brave going into the Book readers thread! Lol!

Chris

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I was thinking you are awfully brave going into the Book readers thread! Lol!

Chris

Same here! Lol!

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Valyrian steel = Dragonsteel. Half Life 3 confirmed

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Which means everybody is fraked.

There are only like 5 of them.

The Watch has Longclaw. Brienne has Oathkeeper. (Formerly Neds) Tommen has Booksmasher. (Formerly neds) Littlefinger has the dagger. Randyll has Heartsbane. And according to the books, House Corbray, House Harlaw and House Celtigar have ones as well.

Edited by Gakken85

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Which means everybody is fraked.

There are only like 5 of them.

The Watch has Longclaw. Brienne has Oathkeeper. Tommen has Booksmasher. Littlefinger has the dagger. Randyll has Heartsbane. And according to the books, House Corbray, House Harlaw and House Celtigar have ones as well.

Per Tyrion in the books: Valyrian steel blades were scarce and costly, yet thousands remained in the world, perhaps two hundred in the Seven Kingdoms alone.

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So where are they?

It would be a little cheesy if they just find them randomly right when the walkers are on the march.

Maybe that's the part that the stone men will play! Maybe they are hiding the swords in the doom of Valyria.

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So where are they?

It would be a little cheesy if they just find them randomly right when the walkers are on the march.

Maybe that's the part that the stone men will play! Maybe they are hiding the swords in the doom of Valyria.

The vast majority of the swords in Westeros are in the hands of it's numerous houses.

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Oh, yeah, how can we forget Wun Wun? Totally badass.

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So, I believe at the end of book five Arya has gotten her vision back, Sam is actually at the Citadel (along with a faceless man), and hasn't Dany already wiped out the leadership of that Khaleesar with Drogon and taken it as her army?

Edited by Duke Togo

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So, I believe at the end of book five Arya has gotten her vision back, Sam is actually at the Citadel (along with a faceless man), and hasn't Dany already wiped out the leadership of that Khaleesar with Drogon and taken it as her army?

I could have sworn "Book Dany" was left surrounded by the Dothraki, and it just stops there. I vaguely remember something about Drogon flying overhead or something, but I don't think the Khaleesar were harmed in any way. I'll check the book again later to confirm, though.

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I couldn't remember if Arya had her sight back or not, but she really didn't do much else....just the whole Cat of the Canals thing which she sort of did already anyway. Sam's journey was completely different, but yes he is at the Citadel but I don't recall much happening there yet. Dany was left just as the show did, only when the Kalisar shows up Drogon is with her feeding on a Horse....but nothing happens as far as we know.

Chris

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“They have no idea what’s going to happen.”

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To answer the last two questions here about A Dance With Dragons, yes Arya has her sight back after tricking the guild master by using her warg abilities, and no nothing happened with the Dothraki surrounding Dany yet. Her chapter ends with Drogon landing her in a field with the riders surrounding her and that is it.

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To answer the last two questions here about A Dance With Dragons, yes Arya has her sight back after tricking the guild master by using her warg abilities, and no nothing happened with the Dothraki surrounding Dany yet. Her chapter ends with Drogon landing her in a field with the riders surrounding her and that is it.

More specifically, Arya has been inducted as an acolyte of the guild of The Faceless Men. She has carried out at least one assassination for the guild so far. Apparently there is already a POV chapter for her in The Winds of Winter that has been released....

As far as Dany is concerned, she is likely about to use Drogon to good effect to rebuild her khalasar, probably over Khal Jhago's eviscerated corpse....

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