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Macross/Animation Cel Collection Thread


baronv

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On 1/12/2017 at 0:32 PM, tepidarium said:

Unfortunately, I don't have a stuck cel that I can sacrifice as an experiment. I can't subject this Misa cel to the freezer - I don't have enough experience to risk it.  I think I will have to mist off the douga, which, in the past means destruction of the douga.  JV & Fortress, I appreciate your advice.   


I wouldn't use the freezer method on a cel that old. In fact I probably wouldn't use the freezer method at all. Once I read about an animator I think simply using the moisture from the cool air night over a few days to help slowly separate sketches from cels. Also, I think preservation companies have a powder of some kind that they use. I wouldn't be surprised if they give cels some kind of dry bath to help with the vinegar problem.

 

It would be odd if the douga was the source of the smell as it's the cel that's breaking down. I've never smelled vinegar off old comics or paper before. Perhaps the sketch absorbed the smell.

 

I wouldn't frame it immediately either even though frames aren't air tight. Putting it in a frame, even with an acid free backer, without neutralizing the vinegar at least a bit seems like it could speed the degradation since the cel will be enclosed with the smell.

 

I would probably use an acid free paper perhaps with a buffer and let the cel and sketch air out for a while. The buffer might help it. Then decide how much you really want the sketch. Since it's matching and Macross, I would think that the sketch alone would be worth a lot intact. So I wouldn't rush to get it off and damage it just yet.

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So jealous that collectors are still finding Macross cels. I've pretty much stalled on cel collecting since the prime cels are just too hard to find these days and I don't have the fortitude to deal with Y!Japan anymore.

I do check cel sellers at cons I go to but they're mainly American 80s cartoons.

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@baronv Good to see you around!  There aren't many cel dealers left carrying anime cels circa 70-80s, but, you are right what is offered tends to be American 80s animation.  High end cels and artwork are still rare, but, some collectors do release their Macross cels, albeit infrequently.  Still glad to see your collection is being shared on RS. 

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Looks fake.  It is in well preserved condition with solid lines and vibrant colors, but it is also missing a lot of the original hanken image especially Millia's arms and Max's arm etc.  If it was reasonably priced jvmacross, this fancel would make a nice pairing with your Misa and Hikaru wedding hanken.  Speaking of which, did you ever determine why Misa's pearls and veil were missing?

Edited by Fortress_Maximus
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Interesting theory!  The veil actually does look like real fabric/material was used.  This hanken mono was used for the magazine cover of the Animage December 1984 issue.  Since it was used for advertising specifically and not in animation production, the pearls would not be animated to move.  It is just my educated guess based on other hankens I've owned and researched, but I think the pearl necklace was probably airbrushed.  In such cases the pearls typically are not secondary layers, meaning the layer would be the same as the primary face and body.  Alas, we may never know, so Mikimoto-sensei might be the only person who can solve this mystery for us. :p

Edited by Fortress_Maximus
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29 minutes ago, DarkArchon3000 said:

That is a nice Hanken, but are there different versions of this artwork?  The color of her dress and pattern on the veil don't match the Animage cover or poster.

Usually there are not different versions for hanken monos, but it is entirely possibly multiples were made for the Millia and Max wedding hanken.  The artwork used for Animage May 1983 cover already had some traceline fading which is unusual.  Worst case, the one listed in auction is an exceptionally well-made fan cel.

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Yup missing a bit on the edges and bottom.  Ok scratch my earlier comment jvmacross, I didn't recheck the full sized image you posted.  I am pretty sure it is a fake now.  The acetate size is completely wrong!  Also, notice there are areas where the creases do not cast shadows?  Then there's the missing reflection from Max's glasses, plus his missing cuffs, and of course Millia's right and left arms!  Looks like we have another forgery group becoming active on YJP.

Edited by Fortress_Maximus
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5 hours ago, baronv said:

So jealous that collectors are still finding Macross cels. I've pretty much stalled on cel collecting since the prime cels are just too hard to find these days and I don't have the fortitude to deal with Y!Japan anymore.

I do check cel sellers at cons I go to but they're mainly American 80s cartoons.

 

What 80s American cels are you seeing at conventions? There could be some Japanese animated stuff mixed in. You never know. The good G.I. Joe series and a few others were animated in Japan.

 

4 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Even with the weak JPY...still pricey....I'd be tempted at half or less

Seems legit....what do you think?

 

 

My first thought on that was fake. I thought that's why you guys didn't mention it here. It's been up for a while now.

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On 1/17/2017 at 0:02 PM, Fortress_Maximus said:

@tepidarium  Make time to scan your cels and artwork and display them in your RS gallery.  This is a great way to view them more frequently without increasing the likelihood of damaging the artwork. :p  I only take my cels out to conduct the inspections previously mentioned.  Good luck!

I wanted to thank everyone who posted for their advice.  Probably, I will keep the cel quarantined from the rest of the collection and will try to expose it to as much air as possible. After a good long while, I will reassess the condition and may choose to remove the douga in due course.  

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On 1/18/2017 at 8:13 PM, Fortress_Maximus said:

Yup missing a bit on the edges and bottom.  Ok scratch my earlier comment jvmacross, I didn't recheck the full sized image you posted.  I am pretty sure it is a fake now.  The acetate size is completely wrong!  Also, notice there are areas where the creases do not cast shadows?  Then there's the missing reflection from Max's glasses, plus his missing cuffs, and of course Millia's right and left arms!  Looks like we have another forgery group becoming active on YJP.

This does look to be a fake, but could the missing reflection from Max's glasses be due to an effects layer that was separated from the rest?

When I look at these pieces, I often find that the best places to compare are the wispy strands of hair and the creases in the clothing. I check the angles that they form with the negative space created around the lines to see if they match up. Though,  I'm not sure if this is wholly reliable, as sometimes a real cel can have a poorly mastered derivative image created for online display. 

The counterfeiting is disconcerting, but something that is important to recognize.  Remember those terrible fakes on YJ over the summer? I believe some are still up for auction on ebay...

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On 1/18/2017 at 3:47 PM, baronv said:

So jealous that collectors are still finding Macross cels. I've pretty much stalled on cel collecting since the prime cels are just too hard to find these days and I don't have the fortitude to deal with Y!Japan anymore.

I do check cel sellers at cons I go to but they're mainly American 80s cartoons.

Finding quality examples is a needle in a haystack operation nowadays. But the promise of finding that one great shot (or forgery!) can still be realized...yes, this is when you know you've gone off the edge with cel collecting. Is the hunt worth it? 

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19 hours ago, tepidarium said:

Finding quality examples is a needle in a haystack operation nowadays. But the promise of finding that one great shot (or forgery!) can still be realized...yes, this is when you know you've gone off the edge with cel collecting. Is the hunt worth it? 

It's all about the hunt!  :rolleyes:

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Let's try something a bit different. There are only a few of us here but all this talk of fakes and how to store cels got me thinking. I want to know the worst and best cel or sketch that you have ever seen. It doesn't have to be Macross.

 

There is an Akira cel blog site that posted some damaged framed cels that I can't believe. And I just saw a Mospeada cel that made me post this idea.

 

Rook_A4_Cel_$83.63.jpg

 

It's kind of sad that when I started collecting cels my only concern was finding cels of my favorite scenes. I didn't even think about condition. Apparently everyone doesn't protect their cels that well. Those framed Akira cels I mentioned look worse than this one of Rook. Actually this Rook cel isn't too bad and it sold this morning. I'm sure it could be restored somehow in the future.

 

And for the best. It's not a cel but rather two pieces of art. One I saw on a gallery. The other I might have posted the price here before. Good and complete DYRL cels seem really difficult to come across. And as these are one of a kind it makes them really special.

 

Macross_DYRL_Poster_Oversized_Sketch_Mikimoto.jpg

 

Misa_&_Hikaru_Poster_Sketch_Mikimoto_470100_Yen.jpeg

 

 

Edited by JetJockey
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