Fortress_Maximus Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Nice additions Juice! Wondering can you clarify which are original production cels in the second image containing five images? The top three look like reproductions (game cel of Minmay and clockwise DYRL Minmay, DYRL Misa). For the last two DYRL Misa and Ishtar, are those actual production cels? Do not see any sequence numbers for the Misa and Ishtar is blurry. Any chance you can post more pics of the DYRL Misa? Thanks! Edited August 23, 2017 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice14 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 15 hours ago, Fortress_Maximus said: Nice additions Juice! Wondering can you clarify which are original production cels in the second image containing five images? The top three look like reproductions (game cel of Minmay and clockwise DYRL Minmay, DYRL Misa). For the last two DYRL Misa and Ishtar, are those actual production cels? Do not see any sequence numbers for the Misa and Ishtar is blurry. Any chance you can post more pics of the DYRL Misa? Thanks! All 5 are printed images.... hence what I mean by cheap.... there are no Cels in the last image (unfortunately) but like I said they were fairly cheap (although I can't quite find the order details). However, they are still nice prints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Ah! Gotcha. Thanks again for sharing. Have you created an online gallery on rubberslug.com? It is free and quick and easy to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 FYI: Anyone needing cel bags and Itoya portfolios try http://www.darkharbor.com/trades/html/celbooks.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 There's a market for xerox color copies of cels? Think I would prefer a well-made fancel if the original was not available or attainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Is it really a surprise a market exists for xeroxed cel copies? Collectors buy reproductions of settei don't they? Come to think of it I have a settei from FB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Yes, I'm surprised. Settei by default are reproduced during the animation process and handed out to the actual animators working on the production. So technically, if you can grab a copy that was actually used during the production, it still qualifies as an authentic piece of Macross history in my opinion. I've seen sellers selling copies of the original production settei copies for a long time....most you can clearly tell are xeroxed. But, xeroxing production cels seems like a new thing and, like selling copies of settei copies, there is no effort involved in doing so. At least a really good fancel requires painting skills at minimum and you get something hand-made at the end. In the end, everyone is free to spend on what makes them happy I suppose. What Flashback settei do you have? Original one? Pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 (edited) Good points. It is possible the settei are reproductions after the fact or used by animators during production. However, depending on the series rarity (e.g. GUNNM or Lodoss Wars) settei reproductions still might be worth it. For example, it is quite rare to obtain a Macross Flashback OVAs settei 'production' set, which is why I picked up a set decades ago. For me I just do not care for fan cels no matter how well created because I feel they are not authentic. This is one of my gripes with the surge of Relizu cels which are licensed reproductions. Another slight tangent issue involving Relizu cels involve how the studios refuse to create a limited quantity, despite the fact these are reproductions and not production cels. SMH. Anyways, I have examined many excellent fan cels and some a well-made like those by Natalie, but I prefer to pay for something either used for production, or something made exclusively for marketing, namely, hanken monos. But as you say, whatever makes you happy. Edited September 7, 2017 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r206257067 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MACROSS-ROBOTECH-MILIA-TV-ANIME-PRODUCTION-CEL-/401407402358?hash=item5d75bee176:g:ns0AAOSwJwpZwBxt best to wait for the 5% off sale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice14 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 16 hours ago, jvmacross said: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r206257067 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MACROSS-ROBOTECH-MILIA-TV-ANIME-PRODUCTION-CEL-/401407402358?hash=item5d75bee176:g:ns0AAOSwJwpZwBxt best to wait for the 5% off sale! 6000 yen to 500 USD.... its clear I am in the wrong business working for a living lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bub Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Found these questionable cels from a shop in Brisbane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 The cels seem legit....the seller is on ebay......I'd be interested in the VF-1S if the cel was not stuck to the sketch.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Sadly most of this seller's cels were not stored in good condition. The VF-1S cel is in dreadful condition for what he is hoping to get. If you want to get it consider asking for a reduced price due to the condition. Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 yeah, the sketch looks fantastic....I asked the seller if the cel is stuck or not....if not I may make an offer he probably will refuse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oden Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Preservation was definitely not one of their priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Sadly it is increasingly common that some sellers do not understand how fragile anime cels are and what techniques help preserve. One thing that I find particularly troubling is how many sellers nowadays simply do not invest time and resources to protect the cels. This is particularly true on evilbay where most sellers are just flippers, and some are scalpers like urbantreasurehunterjapan. Over the years the cels I found that were often in the best condition typically came from cel collectors collections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 The seller responded and could not confirm if the cel was not stuck to the sketch.....said he did not want to remove it from the frame..... You'd think a seller would be very familiar with every aspect of something they are trying to sell for 750 au.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 That would be too logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 If the cel is legitimate, I would assume the sketch is stuck as it would be a true incompetent framer that would frame a cel and non-stuck sketch like the one we are seeing. They would frame them separately or next to each other. Not on top like that. But then I've read stories of some framers dry mounting cels too. I can't tell if this store is in the open or a mall but it looks like being displayed in the Australian sun combined with not using a UV filtered glass did this one in. If this is a real cel it's worthless in the current condition. It's probably one of the worst if not the worst condition cel I've seen. And I've seen some bad ones from Disney and other companies. At times missing sections of the cel and background. But there were still parts that made those worthy of restoration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Not sure if it is worthless, but it is definitely worth less than 750 AU.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 hours ago, jvmacross said: Not sure if it is worthless, but it is definitely worth less than 750 AU.... Exactly! Hardly worthless. The cel can be restored if a collector is willing to dedicate the necessary resources. In its current condition is worth considerably less than what the seller is requesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I may have taken the risk at closer to 300 USD range....the sketch, if clean, would certainly be worth that price...at least to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Indeed! The price simply does not accurately reflect the product condition. Have you tried making him an offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I offered what the pic posted showed he was willing to reduce it by.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 What did he say? Deal or no deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 You won't be getting better pics from me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) Huh? Not concerned about better pics, just want to know if he is willing to sell to you. Edited September 25, 2017 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 LOL.....you know I like to share my collection on MW.....guess you did not get the hint.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 8 hours ago, jvmacross said: Not sure if it is worthless, but it is definitely worth less than 750 AU.... Ok. Not completely worthless. I would pay $1 for the cel & sketch. Here is why. Since the seller doesn't want to open the frame and check it, which by the way is the easiest thing to do and they are selling the whole thing. I would offer $1 (for the cel & sketch) + shipping cost + frame cost. Who knows what kind of glass it is or if the materials are acid free. All that would need to be discarded and changed anyway. So then just the frame itself, perhaps $25 to $50. Since we aren't talking framing labor charges. It looks like a glossy wood frame but that doesn't really matter. That means for me at best I would offer around $50 to $75 max to ship to the United States. Since I believe the cel is stuck to the sketch you have the chance of damaging the only possible good thing in the auction. And after that, with the framer there is the possibility of them dry mounting the sketch itself to the matting. Which can be removed but it is an expensive process and can result in paper damage / color changes. Let's not forget this might have a case of vinegar syndrome too. And of course repairing the cel which would basically need to be completely redrawn by a professional cel artist. The potential costs of this restoration adventure for a possible legitimate cel that isn't even a key display cel, at least to me, is far too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 3 hours ago, JetJockey said: Ok. Not completely worthless. I would pay $1 for the cel & sketch. Here is why. Since the seller doesn't want to open the frame and check it, which by the way is the easiest thing to do and they are selling the whole thing. I would offer $1 (for the cel & sketch) + shipping cost + frame cost. Who knows what kind of glass it is or if the materials are acid free. All that would need to be discarded and changed anyway. So then just the frame itself, perhaps $25 to $50. Since we aren't talking framing labor charges. It looks like a glossy wood frame but that doesn't really matter. That means for me at best I would offer around $50 to $75 max to ship to the United States. Since I believe the cel is stuck to the sketch you have the chance of damaging the only possible good thing in the auction. And after that, with the framer there is the possibility of them dry mounting the sketch itself to the matting. Which can be removed but it is an expensive process and can result in paper damage / color changes. Let's not forget this might have a case of vinegar syndrome too. And of course repairing the cel which would basically need to be completely redrawn by a professional cel artist. The potential costs of this restoration adventure for a possible legitimate cel that isn't even a key display cel, at least to me, is far too much. In short, you won't be getting the cel either..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 2 hours ago, jvmacross said: In short, you won't be getting the cel either..... No. But if you wanted to, you or someone else could get it and return it for free by using eBay's not as described rule. The seller's description isn't that good and I'm sure however the sketch turns out or if it's fake, eBay will make the seller pay the return shipping on not as described cases. eBay almost always takes the position of protect the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 @ jvmacross: Missed your hint. What did the seller say? @ Jetjockey: Buyers with doubts prior to purchasing a cel, do yourself, the seller, and the entire cel community a favor and do not buy it. Why waste everyone's time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 @fortress....Basically he refused to remove the cel from the frame to confirm if the cel was stuck to the sketch.....he also said 750 au was a fair price.....with that there was no further need for negotiations on the price since the actual condition of the cel could not be verified.....and if it was not stuck 750 au was too much for me to pay for the sketch....as the cel is of little value to me in its current state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 8 hours ago, JetJockey said: No. But if you wanted to, you or someone else could get it and return it for free by using eBay's not as described rule. The seller's description isn't that good and I'm sure however the sketch turns out or if it's fake, eBay will make the seller pay the return shipping on not as described cases. eBay almost always takes the position of protect the buyer. Have to agree with fortress....we already are close to 100% sure of the condition....so not worth the trouble or risk....at least not for me....besides....the cel is "as described".....nothing in the description says you can separate the cel from the sketch....as a buyer, you are just assuming they do.....but for claims....it is all about what is described in the listing only.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 2 hours ago, jvmacross said: Have to agree with fortress....we already are close to 100% sure of the condition....so not worth the trouble or risk....at least not for me....besides....the cel is "as described".....nothing in the description says you can separate the cel from the sketch....as a buyer, you are just assuming they do.....but for claims....it is all about what is described in the listing only.... Sent you a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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