tepidarium Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Ok I admit it.... I managed to get it .... and as a total newbie (even after reading the FAQs) I just had to fiddle with it. Thankfully there were already multiple layers of protection and a thin plastic sheet between the 2 production cels (marked A1 and B1) so I don't think I did permanent damage. Seniors please don't kill me for manhandling it! Thankfully I think there was no damage from me just pulling the layers apart. What disturbs me is the apparent mold on the plastic in the areas not already covered by the animation colors.... I aim to clean it but a bit wary of using even water... hope microfiber cloth will work. Will also try and frame it up... not sure if my local stores have UV resistant glass or how much they cost but will try and see. Thanks for all the advice and very excited to have my first ever Macross cel (I think its a production cel but not 100% sure). Hope to share more with the community when I'm done! Congratulations.on your first Macross cel! And, a nice image of Misa Hayase is a great way to start collecting! Have loads of fun with it and enjoy your one of a kind work of art! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) Some DYRL cels Edited November 17, 2017 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) 1. How do you tell if a cel is an actual production one versus something made for distribution? 2. I saw someone use the word Hanken? what's that? 3. How do you frame/preserve the cel? I'm quite worried to see comments that the cel will disintegrate over time.... Thanks in advance sempais! Here are more good cel resources: http://www.animanga.com/cels/info/cels.html http://www.srlabs.com/ Attached is a helpful cel grading guide by Brian Martinez. Edited April 8, 2016 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Some DYRL cels Holy small images! Those are nice ones though. Must be old pick ups as I haven't seen those and I've been looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tepidarium Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Some DYRL cels Love them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice14 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Picked these up.... maybe I will try my hand at painting them lol.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Picked these up.... maybe I will try my hand at painting them lol.... You can have any iconic Macross image done for you by a pro for $35....but I'd like to see someone try these do-it-yourself cels.... Here are the rest... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=42362 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokman Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 So you're the one I was fighting with over this one! Nice score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokman Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Yeah some of the BWA items are nice. I don't suspect the prices will stay where they are for much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pengbuzz Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 You can have any iconic Macross image done for you by a pro for $35....but I'd like to see someone try these do-it-yourself cels.... Here are the rest... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=42362 Yeah, one day I'd like to try my hand at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 LOL....I knew there was no way it was urbantreasurehunter that time around! There are some nice ones on Mandarake right now if you still have some money to burn... I don't see any Flashback cels but I see some DYRL cels. They are already expensive with a week to go. They have the End cel when Misa walks in on Hikaru and Minmei at 31,000 Yen right now. That should more than double. Was the Flashback douga on Mandarake? I don't know how I missed seeing that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I don't see any Flashback cels but I see some DYRL cels. They are already expensive with a week to go. They have the End cel when Misa walks in on Hikaru and Minmei at 31,000 Yen right now. That should more than double. Was the Flashback douga on Mandarake? I don't know how I missed seeing that one. No, it was on YJA But, yeah...just DYRL and TV Macross cels on Mandarake at the moment..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 There are some Flashback copied sketches on eBay for $200. I've never seen copied sketches priced that high. That's far more than I paid for the Macross print book collection. I still need to dig that up and frame a few of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokman Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Yeah that artwork is cool, but not for $200. I have a painted cel of the first Minmei image listed there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 @jetJockey.... Which "Macross print book" are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 @jetJockey.... Which "Macross print book" are you referring to? This one. http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/books/art_tiaillustrations.htm I probably should have called it print folder or just print collection. But I have it stored with my Macross books I think. Copies are odd though. Most I've noticed are cheap. But sometimes you come across copies, they don't sell and you never see the copies again. So what do you do? I don't think I can bring myself to buy and frame a copy of a sketch. I didn't want the Ghost in the Shell sketch copies they released for the anniversary. I guess I think, what's stopping me from making a copy of a page from an artbook and framing it. I would want something of higher quality. I'm not even sure how I would go about it if I were to get a cel with a copied background. Knowing one is original and the other a copy. But I did see these Saber Rider copies from the final episode ending sequence some time ago. Never saw them again. Part of me wishes that I got them. But I can't remember the price. I've never seen any books with Saber Rider designs and sketches before so maybe I should have picked these up if they were cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 OK...for some reason I thought you meant this collection of character and mecha designs from Movic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I don't recall ever seeing that before. I don't see it in the MacrossWorld collection archive either. It looks like a homemade booklet with the staples. How many pages are in the booklet? Is it worth picking up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 It is a BW licensed publication...it was released by Movic around the time DYRL was released....I can take a look at how many pages it contains....as for wether or not it is worth picking up....the art within it can be found in various Macross books of that era.... Here are some pics.... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=29133&p=1282606 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokman Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 The version I have is 40 pages, but mine is most likely second hand photocopies of one of the original packets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 41 with the cover image....probably the same images as the one Mokman is describing. One recently sold on Mandarake for 5,000 via auction.... http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auction/item/itemInfoEn.html?index=384744 There are some that sell on YJA that have different images....but are not a licensed version like the Movic release, which only matters to me due to my obsession for collecting all licensed publications for SDFM/DYRL... Here is a current listing... http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r66111082 And not to deviate from the cel topic...but Movic also released similar character and mecha sheet collections for Macross 7, Macross Dynamite 7, and Macross Frontier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bub Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 41 with the cover image....probably the same images as the one Mokman is describing. One recently sold on Mandarake for 5,000 via auction.... http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auction/item/itemInfoEn.html?index=384744 There are some that sell on YJA that have different images....but are not a licensed version like the Movic release, which only matters to me due to my obsession for collecting all licensed publications for SDFM/DYRL... Here is a current listing... http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r66111082 And not to deviate from the cel topic...but Movic also released similar character and mecha sheet collections for Macross 7, Macross Dynamite 7, and Macross Frontier All the art on this booklet are also seen in the Macross Gold Book and Perfect Memory Book, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 hey Bub....yeah...nothing new and all can be seen in the two books you mentioned among several others..... OK....everyone is keeping quiet about these : http://sellinglist.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/user/h230525?p=%E8%B6%85%E6%99%82%E7%A9%BA%E8%A6%81%E5%A1%9E%E3%83%9E%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B9&auccat=&aq=-1&oq=&ei=UTF-8&anchor=1&slider=0&vm= I'm guessing fancels? None seem to have any frame sequence info on them.....very nicely done though...I'm in on a few of them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tepidarium Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) hey Bub....yeah...nothing new and all can be seen in the two books you mentioned among several others..... OK....everyone is keeping quiet about these : http://sellinglist.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/user/h230525?p=%E8%B6%85%E6%99%82%E7%A9%BA%E8%A6%81%E5%A1%9E%E3%83%9E%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B9&auccat=&aq=-1&oq=&ei=UTF-8&anchor=1&slider=0&vm= I'm guessing fancels? None seem to have any frame sequence info on them.....very nicely done though...I'm in on a few of them.... After looking at them, I think they are fan cels, or at the very least, not production cels as we know them from the actual run of Macross. Let's use the Miss Macross cel as an example. Below is an image of what I believe is the frame from the episode compared to the cel on YJ. While color shifting can be explained away - monitor temperatures, aging of the cel, photography technique - look at the lines. The dead giveaway is Minmay's expression: it's very different and doesn't change as the camera pans up. Note the line-work around the crown and around the figure, there are outright differences in detail and proportion. In fact, the YJ cel seems to have extra embellishments added. I imagine that the best case scenario is that these cels were official material from the studio for some other purpose. However, I fear they may be passed off as production cels. As fan cels, they are nice and should command fan cel prices. Edited June 15, 2016 by tepidarium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) Some of the recent Macross A level cels (significant scenes, composition), are simply good fakes. Given the significance of these cels if authentic, they would be 'tome' or should appear as 'A1' and 'END', if, the proper sequence numbers were listed. It's important to understand cel production sequence numbers and how/why they correlate with timing sheets. Keeping this in mind, it is clear if these were production cels they would require sequence numbers and these cels have none. As tepidarium noted, one concern is the seller and/or fan cel creator(s) might be deliberately attempting to pass these fakes as authentic. The descriptions in the listings do not clearly state these are fake and even go as far as to claim they are old. However, even a rudimentary analysis of the cels reveal characteristics atypical of 30 year old production cels, namely: exceptionally sharp lines, vibrant paint colors, and minimum oxidation. Edited June 17, 2016 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tepidarium Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) They may be old fakes. Here's another comparison. A classic shot of Misa. A good image, but a fake none the less. For the sake of argument, lets first excuse the differently shaped mouth and say that I didn't get the right frame on the screengrab. Secondly, the face, besides the mouth layer, should be the same cel throughout the shot. On the left, notice the curl over the eye. In the screenshot, the curl is thicker, in the "cel" it is thinner and ends in a sharp line. Look at the shape of the ear. In the screenshot, the ear is elongated and so is the stripe of hair adjacent to it. In the "cel" the ear is more oval and the hair adjacent is wider. Across at the far left, the wisp of hair jutting out from the rest is thin and ends in a sharp point in the screenshot. In the cel, the wisp of hair is more droopy and has not sharp ending. The list goes on. There are inconsistencies regarding the facial structure, the white highlights of her eyes, the highlights of her hair, the width of the collar in the area near the bun of her hair. This is a very attractive image, but it should not be passed off as a production cel. This is risky territory. I agree with Fortess Maximus regarding the preponderance of fakes for key sequences/significant scenes. It is not production art and should not be passed off as such. Bidders should know and be informed - and if one wants a copy--great. I think JVMacross mentioned that one can get excellent fan cel art for $35 per image. Folks should try to investigate if they are bidding on production art and sellers should be as forthcoming as possible. Edited June 16, 2016 by tepidarium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tepidarium Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) Excellent observations guys...on the "Miss Macross" cel...shouldn't it have been her complete body? Essentially an oversize cel or two cel sheets put together for a camera pan of it when it was originally filmed... And yes, there is someone on ebay who can probably do any of those "cels" or any screenshot you supply for $35.... These are the ones I had made....when compared to original cels....these look cleaner, brighter and too perfect....they are missing 30+ years of "mileage" as Indiana Jones would say..... These are great reproductions! When looking at that sellers YJ auctions, I think they do look too "clean." It also looks like there might be artificial "weathering" on the cel spattered paint? Line fading seems almost nil. Thoughts? What's up with this writing on this "cel" - there's a close up of it: http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m166018821 And, every important cel has no sequence number? However, even a rudimentary analysis of the cels reveal characteristics atypical of 30 year old production cels, namely: exceptionally sharp lines, vibrant paint colors, and minimum oxidation. I realize I just repeated what you said. Excellent analysis. Edited June 16, 2016 by tepidarium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 That is one of Mikimoto's sigs used for several of the stuff he did for SDFM....at best it would be the original Hanken for this issue of Animedia....someone talk me out of wanting to believe!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tepidarium Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) That is one of Mikimoto's sigs used for several of the stuff he did for SDFM....at best it would be the original Hanken for this issue of Animedia....someone talk me out of wanting to believe!!! Wow. That one is a close match. However, look at the extra line on Minmay's nose. In the "cel" there is a break, in the cover there is an arc. Look at the white highlighting of Minmay's hair in the "cel"... the top arc of the highlight on her leg is a different shape. This might not matter, but the positioning of the signature vis a vis Minmay's leg is off by a lot. Otherwise, it looks remarkably similar. Also, not one cel here comes with a drawing? Stuck drawing, etc? Edited June 16, 2016 by tepidarium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tepidarium Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I'm somewhat surprised at the prices these two fetched. I believe they are fake. Both are from episode #1, I believe. http://page14.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/s491761719 http://page15.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t477883504 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) Hope the buyer of those fakes is our good friend the deadbeat scalper 'urbantreasurehunterjapan'. Edited June 17, 2016 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tepidarium Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Hope the buyer of those fakes is our good friend the deadbeat scalper 'urbantreasurehunterjapan'. Now that would be justice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkArchon3000 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 LOL! Agreed. That would be hilarious. We'll see if they wind up on ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The only other possibility would be that these are studio promo cels....I think I have ever only seen one....and it did not have any frame sequence info on it either....but still....it would not be an original cel used in the actual filming of the show....I guess at that point the pricing would be totally subjective....completely based on how badly the bidder(s) wanted to own it..... Highest seller so far.... http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/p518089060 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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