MEMO1DOMINION Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) "Fandom Politics"...? I don't follow you. THIS PERTAINS TO THE QUESTION OF WHY ONE MECHA. THERES A FANDOM ARTBOOK IN THE WORKS www.robotechanthology.com . WHEN AT THE SAME TIME THERE WAS A ROBOTECH SOURCE BOOK IN THE WORKS. WELL, THE IDEA IS TO PUT ALL INFO ON ONE BOOK CALLED THE ROBOTECH ANTHOLOGY. WICH IS BASED ON FANDOM FAN ART AND FAN FICS THAT IS LOOKING FOR A LEGAL DESTRIBUTION FROM HG. NOT MUCH ROOM FOR THE ROBOTECH CODICE THAT WILL PIGGY BACK ON THE PROJECT AS WELL. BUT WILL HAVE AS MUCH OF EVERYTHING OF ROBOTECH OUT THERE. And again, there are no detailed Robotech stats out there, in officially sanctioned materials, except the Palladium books, and a lot of that info is wrong. So where will you get all of your material from? WHY THE CREATION OF ROBOTECH CODICE? BECOUSE THERE IS NO DETAIL ROBOTECH STATS. THE PALLEDIUM IS FOR AN RPG. WICH WE WILL TRY TO CORRECT IT IN THE CODICE LEGAL MATERIAL FROM HG, FANDOM INPUT AND T.V. SOURCE AS WELL. AND LIKE I SAID, WILL KEEP THIS ROBOTECH. Edited April 5, 2009 by MEMO1DOMINION Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 LITTLE ROBOTECH FANDOM POLITICS. PLUS WE A SMALL TEAM. OTHER MECHA, CHARACTERS, TIMELINE, ETC, ETC WILL FOLLOW. INCLUDING ITS OW PAGE. MACROSS FANS HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF DOING THINGS ON THEIR OWN, INCLUDING THIS NEW TRANSLATION (NOW I CAN ENJOY MACROSS BOOKS WITHOUT JUST GAWKING AT THE PICTURES) FOR THE MACROSS CHRONICLES. BUT REALLY, THERE IS NO ROBOTECH SOURCE OF ITS OWN. AND LIKE EXO SAID WE ON A DIFFERENT STORY AS WELL. JUST THAT THIS WILL BE THE FIRST ATTEMPT AT ITS OWN ROBOTECH SOURCE COLLECTION. I don't really understand how you can choose to reference SOME creator sources and still choose to keep other post-Macek stuff. Like I said that's where you sever the ties from the original creators... not just Macross but Southern Cross and Mospeada. You can't say that Chronicles is a reliable source and still imply that that Protoculture can be defined as a source of fuel or power... that's why you can't truly chronicle Robotech stuff without it becoming fanfic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 You know I actually defended Tommy Yune's art, I think it was Maia, when it first came to light, but after seeing the rest of the designs for SC stuff come out, I concede to the people I argued against. I don't think his art is bad at all...it doesn't look much like the original designs, but all the characters are recognizable and appealing. It's certainly heaps better than the original Comico art: GOOD MINMAY! BAD MINMAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) that's why you can't truly chronicle Robotech stuff without it becoming fanfic. It wouldn't be a stretch to classify Robotech itself as a really awful Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada fanfic. Edited April 5, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEMO1DOMINION Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 I don't really understand how you can choose to reference SOME creator sources and still choose to keep other post-Macek stuff. EXAMPLE ORIGINAL ART (MACROSS)...KAWAMORI AND TEAM.. STORY (ROBOTECH).. CARL MACEK AND TEAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEMO1DOMINION Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 It wouldn't be a stretch to classify Robotech itself as a really awful Macross fanfic. THESE ARE THINGS THAT KEEPS THIS THREAD ALIVE THAT I TRY TO KEEP AWAY FROM.. WICH SPAWNS SU MUCH DEBATE BETWEEN BOTH WORLDS... MACROSS..AND A HACK JOB OF A FAN FIC.. THE MACROSS SECTION CANT BE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. BUT LIKE I SAID, I AM TRYING TO BE THE FIRST TO START A ROBOTECH ONLY GUIDE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 EXAMPLE ORIGINAL ART (MACROSS)...KAWAMORI AND TEAM.. STORY (ROBOTECH).. CARL MACEK AND TEAM. Harmony Gold has no artists of its own that can draw mecha...? Why not use their work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totoro242 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 *looks over at Totoro242* I was wondering how long it'd take the Robotech apologists to get here and start picking nits in my post with all the speed and frenzy of an amphetamine-fueled chimpanzee... it took longer than I thought. I'm not apologizing for anything. I just cant stand to see people present obviously incorrect information as "fact". Now you have the real facts. Interesting that you would resort to insults rather than acknowledge that you have been corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEMO1DOMINION Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Harmony Gold has no artists of its own that can draw mecha...? Why not use their work? WHY I WAS ASKING AROUND FORUMS FOR HELP ON MANNY THINGS. IF I USE OFFICIAL LEGAL MATERIAL FROM HG THEN I WILL SOURCE IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 WHY I WAS ASKING AROUND FORUMS FOR HELP ON MANNY THINGS. IF I USE OFFICIAL LEGAL MATERIAL FROM HG THEN I WILL SOURCE IT. That's probably a better plan in the long run. It would, at the very least, help to refute Einherjar's point that HG is just riding on Macross's coattails instead of making something of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 That's probably a better plan in the long run. It would, at the very least, help to refute Einherjar's point that HG is just riding on Macross's coattails instead of making something of their own. I'll agree that it is a better plan to see if Harmony Gold or the fans can contribute their own art, rather than attempting to persuade Palladium to let you use their art, or trying to copy art from the Japanese books. I wouldn't say it goes very far to counter the accusation that Harmony Gold is riding Macross's coattails though... as the plot on the ongoing story still revolves around Macross characters and new Robotech relatives thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEMO1DOMINION Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 HEY THANKS... WELL, NOW I AM HUNGRY AND ON MY WAY FOR SOME BBQ IN DOWNTOWN L.A. NOW YOU MAY CONTINUE YOUR LEGALITY DEBATE.. DAMN.. MY POST METER JUST JUMPED MORE IN ONE DAY THAN POSTING THROUGH THE YEARS.. BACK TO NINJA MODE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 HEY THANKS... WELL, NOW I AM HUNGRY AND ON MY WAY FOR SOME BBQ IN DOWNTOWN L.A. NOW YOU MAY CONTINUE YOUR LEGALITY DEBATE.. DAMN.. MY POST METER JUST JUMPED MORE IN ONE DAY THAN POSTING THROUGH THE YEARS.. BACK TO NINJA MODE Well, don't be a stranger! I'm interested to know how you entertaining little Robotech Codex goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I don't think his art is bad at all...it doesn't look much like the original designs, but all the characters are recognizable and appealing. It's certainly heaps better than the original Comico art: that's why I defended it, but after lineart for SC came out and especially after the comic books came out, it became apparent to me that he wasn't up to snuff with creating his own universe. I based my opinion on his work with Speed racer comic books and earlier Robotech art. EXAMPLE ORIGINAL ART (MACROSS)...KAWAMORI AND TEAM.. STORY (ROBOTECH).. CARL MACEK AND TEAM. Again... as I previously argued, Macek went as far with the original source to make it work because it was still grounded in the original art that depended on the creators. But the word "team" means the further manipulations that the current collaborators clearly can't handle. It just doesn't have any nuance from the original animations left and is replaced with a complete mess. Again, using the Robotech Art books as an example, chronicling Robotech would fall short of what Macross, Mospeada and Southern Cross can give you. Depending on what HG has in hand legally would never amount to what Perfect Collection and the Gold Book can give you back then and what Macross Chronicles can give you now. We have seen what you can do with HG materials... And it always falls short of the quality that any anime or sci-fi fans are used to, especially with today's standards. They're just not equipped with the passion nor do they intend to spend the money that could make it work. Compare anything that HG did on their own to anything that their contemporaries deliver... Yamato VF-1 toys to Toynami designed VF-1 toys New Macross animation to Shadown Chronicles Beagle Mospeada to original non Beagle MPC cyclone HG (or Toynami) never has the true passion for their deliveries because they approach their products as fanboys and the same quality would come out of a fanboy based "chronicle" of Robotech. THESE ARE THINGS THAT KEEPS THIS THREAD ALIVE THAT I TRY TO KEEP AWAY FROM.. WICH SPAWNS SU MUCH DEBATE BETWEEN BOTH WORLDS... MACROSS..AND A HACK JOB OF A FAN FIC.. THE MACROSS SECTION CANT BE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. BUT LIKE I SAID, I AM TRYING TO BE THE FIRST TO START A ROBOTECH ONLY GUIDE. You can stay away from the critism but it doesnt make it less true. Harmony Gold has no artists of its own that can draw mecha...? Why not use their work? They can't afford anyone that would produce actual quality work. WHY I WAS ASKING AROUND FORUMS FOR HELP ON MANNY THINGS. IF I USE OFFICIAL LEGAL MATERIAL FROM HG THEN I WILL SOURCE IT. already answered above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 You can stay away from the critism but it doesnt make it less true. Ouch, man! They can't afford anyone that would produce actual quality work. I know. That's why I suggested it. On the other hand, a lot of the Robotech fan art community IS talented, and would probably let their work be used by Harmony Gold sans payment or recognition of any kind. It all depends on how douche-y they want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 On the other hand, a lot of the Robotech fan art community IS talented, and would probably let their work be used by Harmony Gold sans payment or recognition of any kind. You can do that for a fan art book but you can't build an animation/toy merchandise licensing company around it. And the art book would be a mess, It would be an amalgamy of different styles and design ideals. have you ever seen Robotech Art Book 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) You can do that for a fan art book but you can't build an animation/toy merchandise licensing company around it. And the art book would be a mess, It would be an amalgamy of different styles and design ideals. have you ever seen Robotech Art Book 2? I haven't, actually...I was out of Robotech and on to DYRL and Zeta Gundam by the time that came out. But artbook jam sessions aren't necessarily bad things...sometimes the differing styles can make it kind of interesting. But that only really works if you have well-known artists involved. And that takes money. Which brings us right back to where we started... EDIT: By the way, this is the most activity I've seen in this thread in a long while, and, even with a jen-yoo-ine Robotech fan posting, it didn't turn into a flame war!!! Do we rock, or WHAT? Edited April 6, 2009 by Gubaba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The flamewar is so early 2000s! haha... MEMO is actually a friend of mine... We just disagree on a lot of stuff concerning Macross/Robotech fandom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 You mean you didn't see this great art, Gubaba? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 You mean you didn't see this great art, Gubaba? Wow, that's awesome. It's like one of those optical illusions...look at one half of her face, and she's a young woman. Look at the other half, and she's a mountain troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 THIS PERTAINS TO THE QUESTION OF WHY ONE MECHA. THERES A FANDOM ARTBOOK IN THE WORKS www.robotechanthology.com . WHEN AT THE SAME TIME THERE WAS A ROBOTECH SOURCE BOOK IN THE WORKS. WELL, THE IDEA IS TO PUT ALL INFO ON ONE BOOK CALLED THE ROBOTECH ANTHOLOGY. WICH IS BASED ON FANDOM FAN ART AND FAN FICS THAT IS LOOKING FOR A LEGAL DESTRIBUTION FROM HG. NOT MUCH ROOM FOR THE ROBOTECH CODICE THAT WILL PIGGY BACK ON THE PROJECT AS WELL. BUT WILL HAVE AS MUCH OF EVERYTHING OF ROBOTECH OUT THERE. Aren't there legal issues concerning professional companies endorsing fan material like fiction and art for distribution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Aren't there legal issues concerning professional companies endorsing fan material like fiction and art for distribution? I'm fairly sure that so long as the artists/writers waive their usual rights to control the use/misuse of their work like they have to do on Robotech.com there shouldn't be a problem. I could, of course, be wrong. I had a look at that Robotech Anthology website, and it looks like Harmony Gold hasn't given them the go-ahead yet anyway... it says they submitted a demo version of the first issue/volume and haven't heard back yet. I'd imagine if they decide to go ahead and add mecha and character stats to all that, it'll have to go through approvals again. EDIT: Torturous wording was torturous. Edited April 6, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 It all depends on how douche-y they want to be. I'm fairly sure that so long as the artists/writers waive their usual rights to control the use/misuse of their work like they have to do on Robotech.com there shouldn't be a problem. I could, of course, be wrong. Aw, you edited it! They have to sign a waiver so that HG owns their work...? That's pretty douche-y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Aw, you edited it! They have to sign a waiver so that HG owns their work...? That's pretty douche-y. Sorry... I'm a perfectionist... and that was a grammatical nightmare. Yes, Robotech.com fan-fiction and fan-art submissions require the submitting party to agree to a legal agreement that gives Harmony Gold the royalty-free right to exploit submitted fan-art and fan-fiction however they see fit. The exact text of the agreement is: By making any Submission, the sender automatically grants, or warrants that the owner of such material expressly grants, Harmony Gold the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, and distribute such material (in whole or in part) throughout the universe and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, for the full term of any copyright, trademark or patent that may exist in such material for any purpose that Harmony Gold chooses, whether internal, public, commercial, or otherwise, without any compensation, credit or notice to the sender whatsoever. The sender waives all so-called "moral rights" in all Submissions. The sender further waives the right to make any claims against Harmony Gold relating to unsolicited submissions, including, but not limited to, unfair competition, breach of implied contract and/or breach of confidentiality. (I trimmed out the first bit about having to submit only original works) Edited April 6, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I had a look at that Robotech Anthology website, and it looks like Harmony Gold hasn't given them the go-ahead yet anyway... it says they submitted a demo version of the first issue/volume and haven't heard back yet. I'd imagine if they decide to go ahead and add mecha and character stats to all that, it'll have to go through approvals again. The blogger I mentioned a couple of pages ago, Medmapguy, mentioned doing work for that book, the cover in fact. He's still bitter about the experience, talking about HG and Funimation approving it but unwilling to spend money printing it or something. Guess they wanted the fans to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) The blogger I mentioned a couple of pages ago, Medmapguy, mentioned doing work for that book, the cover in fact. He's still bitter about the experience, talking about HG and Funimation approving it but unwilling to spend money printing it or something. Guess they wanted the fans to pay for it. Well... wow... that's... kinda shitty. Most fans don't have that kind of scratch kicking around, and the few that do have better things to spend it on. I know Harmony Gold makes a practice of screwing Robotech fans over... but that's above and beyond the call of duty. Edited April 6, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I know Harmony Gold makes a practice of screwing Robotech fans over... but that's above and beyond the call of duty. Gosh, there really are any number of reasons to dislike them now, aren't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Gosh, there really are any number of reasons to dislike them now, aren't there? I know... it's really kind of worrying that their business plan seems to be an arbitrary desire to make everyone hate them and screw over their customer base. It's like the company's being run by a Batman villain. Edited April 6, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robelwell202 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 One has to wonder... do they take antipsycotic meds? This is truly unsettling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Well... wow... that's... kinda shitty. Most fans don't have that kind of scratch kicking around, and the few that do have better things to spend it on. I know Harmony Gold makes a practice of screwing Robotech fans over... but that's above and beyond the call of duty. They probably realized that the market for RT was much smaller than most of us imagined, thus unwilling to pay for it. As for that fan-art becomes HG-property, i.e. trouble (hence "no unsolicited materials"), it's nothing really new. Many companies have this in their fine print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlightman Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 You mean you didn't see this great art, Gubaba? Art criticism coming from the guy who did the Lil' Valk comics. That's rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Art criticism coming from the guy who did the Lil' Valk comics. That's rich. It doesn't take a great artist to see that that pic was crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlightman Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 It doesn't take a great artist to see that that pic was crappy. It was also fanart from 1987. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 It was also fanart from 1987. Robotech Art 2 had fan art? I always thought it was, y'know, professionals. Now I'm doubly glad I never picked it up. Anyway, the fact that it's from 1987 is no excuse. Anatomy and perspective were well-understood concepts, even way back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Art criticism coming from the guy who did the Lil' Valk comics. That's rich. OH SNAP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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