Andras

Aslo the Armored has 4 more FXA60 Antiarmor rockets in the extra armor over the hips.

The Super's booster pods have a limited RoF. Three missiles each with a few seconds between volleys. The only salvo capacity they have is the shoulder packs.

The Armored pack can dump almost everything in one salvo, bar the second layer of leg missiles.

It also has the 30 'anti-armor' rockets, which I've assumed to be a heavier warhead micromissile, and perhaps less maneuverable, then normal HM micros.

eta- also AFAIK the only source for the 90 missiles in the Super's pods is the VF25MF, which is unoffical. The art on the same page contradicts the caption. We just don't know how many missiles are in the booster pods.

eta2, if you need to justify having both, the Armoreds roll into the middle of the enemy formation using their exception maneuverability and F mode PPB to get close, and then dump everything at all the enemy units near them. Once the enemy formations are shattered, the Supers can chase down the surviving remnants with their large ammo reserves.

Ok, so to clarify the VF-171 gun-pod situation, it can have either the MC-17C or a GU-14B

The VF-17 has the MC-17A, which had 7x 40mm barrels, so the MC-17C seems to be a version of that gunpod.

Has a VF-171 ever used a beam adapter like the VF-17 had? Maybe the MC-17C is a simpler unit that doesn't have that ability.

The GU-14B seems to have 8 barrels. Does anyone know the bore diameter of the GU-14B?

Thanks.

Wait, I thought the VF171 was supposed to have a 7 barrel gun-pod like the VF17, that image above shows 8.

Given you can use the PPB to reinforce a punch by the hand, you could just energize the whole gunpod and whack a dude with it.

If the gunpod is strong enough to hold up to sticking a bayonet in an enemy mecha, it should be strong enough to deliver a blow while protected by the PPB.

other problem was were does one stow the Gunpod if it is not being used.

When the -19 in fighter mode, it's attached to one or both arms. Presumably there's an attachment point that can be used in B mode too to store the gunpod on the outside of the arm(s). My headcanon says this point was used to attach and control the YF-19s arm mounted heavy gun/missile combo-pod also.

Speaking of which, that combination pod would prevent transformation into F mode right? It looks too bulky to fit with the arms tucked away under the fighter.

Do you count the YF-24 as a fighter?

ninjas are everywhere it seems, even in big metal robots.

That would be the MiG-21 or the -29. The Su-27 has very large fuel reserves.

In Plus, Guld fired about 80 missiles out of the VF22 and FAST packs ( I counted them all), and that doesn't include any missiles that might have been fired in the twisting dogfight segment with spherical explosions seen from a distance.

Isamu didn't really fire that many considering he got his leg packs blown off early and had 2 big missiles in the bays instead of micros.

YF-19- fires 2 LRM from internal leg bays, fires 6 missiles from leg FAST packs, then the packs are destroyed

YF-21- Fires 10 missiles, 1 from ea launcher? (2+2+3+3); Fires 18 missiles, 3 from each leg pack, plus 3 volleys of 4 from internal back launchers; Fires 5-7 more, 3 from leg fast pack, at least 2 and possible 4 from internal; Massive volley of 4 internal+6 FAST; 1 lone missile, 4 internal+5 FAST; 4 internal +6 FAST; 6int+5FAST; Total of 20int/30FAST. plus 1 lone missile origin that couldn't be determined. Combined totals of all missiles fired 38 internal, 37 FAST.

One thing that bugged me while designing the Mekton 11C was the leg had pallets and the leg FAST packs had pallet space too. I decided that was too many pallets, and kept the leg ones and made the FAST packs have shoot through doors (they did keep the rear firing MM launchers)

With the Three Stars providing consumables, the VFs basically run for free. It would cost more to start and stop production lines for parts for different VFs then to keep banging out VF-11 compatible parts.

But you could use the VF-5000 as a more modern light trainer, it does come in 1 and 2 seat configurations.

Sketchley, I too wrote up a MAXL based VF-11F for my Mekton profiles.

My thought was it gave Shinsei a lower cost fighter to compete with General Galaxies VF171, at a level below the -19 and -22 super fighters, and before the 25 came out.

Adding different kinds airframes simply complicates the logistical train, why not use 2 seat VF-11s as your trainers?

VT-11D- 2 seat trainer

VF-11B- single seat advanced trainer

VF-11C+ fleet squadron fighter

VF-14- heavy strike fighter, long range interceptor

You could give all the basic fighters jump-seats like the Vf-19 had, everyone can act as combat search and rescue and pick up ejected pilots. In mekton, the second seat costs and takes up the same space as a ejectable cockpit pod does, so it's an easy change.

Design EW warfare suites to fit in the leg bays that can also be slotted in for special missions, which lets you take an EW officer in the backseat for special missions. .

Well as long as a fighter can maintain 2+gs it'll eventually hit orbital velocity. The question is will it run out of reaction mass before hitting 8kps (LEO velocity). The Macrosspedia says the VF-14 can hit 8.33 gs unloaded, so if that is halved due to fuel, it'll need to burn for 170-180seconds assuming it starts around Mach3 (1000mps) while air-breathing.

The funny thing is in Mekton, the drones are more expensive then piloted mecha, because pilots don't cost CPs. Drone AIs are expensive!

Even a basic remote piloting system is cost neutral for the drone, but it increases the cost of the mothership.

Also, Boeing is busy knocking out QF-16s these days as there are no more QF-4s. The QF-16s are actually combat capable IIRC.

I'm not sure if it would be more or less advantageous to manufacture the most advanced variable fighters for colonies/settled worlds or for deep space patrol/colonization fleets. There's plenty of reasons that could support either theory.

Well, a colony planet can't fold away from a threat, so IMO they'd want better fighters then a fleet that can Nope-off. Plus a colony would want to have trans-atmospheric fighters that can reach and fight in orbit, while a space fleet can pretty much get away with space optimized fighters.

AFAIK, VF-11s are not truly get to orbit & fight capable. Maybe with the aero boosters?

Are 171s supposed to be orbit capable?

Also AFAIK, 17s were the first. 5000s can with the booster back. 19s, 22s, and the YF-24 based 25-27-29-30 can.

This is just off the top of my head, but I would think each colony fleet would be pretty self sufficient, at least until it settles on a planet. With the factory ships, they can self supply as long as they find suitable systems to strip mine.

Once they settle down on a planet, I could see them joining the larger Galactic economy for luxury items (which I suppose could also be delivered to the fleet while in transit too) and manufactured goods or specialty items they might not be able to produce locally. Entertainment also seems to be a cross colony item of commerce.

When a colony fleet launches with a full complement of fighters, I can't see them trying to do a full replacement of 2000 fighters if a newer type is developed. A few squadrons of an improved fighter seems to be an acceptable production run mid transit.

Once they settle down, maybe they start a low rate production run of newer fighters to bring numbers up, while storing the older fighters for emergencies or even second line militia use.

I found this archive of templates for papercraft Macross VFs and thought I'd share

http://www.sd-sascha.com/site/gb-paper.html

He has the -4, 9, 11, 14, 17, 19, 21, and 25

This guy has a neat stealth VF-1J

http://www.papercraftsquare.com/macross-vf-1j-stealth-rebuilded-version-free-papercraft-download.html

and a VF-1D

http://www.papercraftsquare.com/macross-vf-1d-valkyrie-free-aircraft-paper-model-download.html

Things I look for in/design into an AVF-technology Upgrade-

Stealth when not previously used

more external or internal ordnance, [delta wings= more HPs ex VF-0E/F (Space rated C/D) or VF-11F (based on MAXL)]

better, later generation gunpod (GU-11D for VF-0E/F; GU-15/17 for VF-11F)

better, later generation micromissile/IRMs

better maneuverability

more thrust, more power= B mode PPB for VF-11F

ability to exit the gravity well (by itself or w aero-FASTpack booster assist)

AVF Upgrade is not necessarily a SpecOps fighter, but a model that incorporates next-gen technology into a previous generation fighter

Compare a Advanced SuperHornet to a F/A-18A legacy Hornet, or a Block 50/60 F-16 to a F-16A.

In Mekton, my VF-11B is 417cp, and the VF-11F is 724 (Vf-19 around 780)

As for SpecOps, that would be IMO, the best stealth available, fold boosters, heavy strike/anti-ship missiles, and many micromissiles.

The ability to sneak in, hit hard, and fight your way out of trouble. Mainline fighters might be detected early (cough Adm Ozzel) while Special Snowflake Force could have hit the rebel base with their VF-17s or 22s before they scrambled. Or they booster into an enemy system, and Pearl Harbor the warships before the rest of your fighters arrive to cut down on the opposition facing your cannonfodder.

I agree that the VF-11 Thunderbolt would be the most logical and likely choice for such a program, and indeed I'd love to see it. I'd like to see the F-16 re-manufactured with stealth materials in the leading edges and stealth geometry in the control surfaces, and using an enclosed weapons pod (ala F18E/F Advanced Super Hornet) to take the place of the F-35. But it's not going to happen (Hopefully we procure a low cost fighter to replace the F-16, F-20 tigershark might be back on the table).

If I were making the decision, I'd choose to revive the VF-0. Here's why, conventional layout, uses a lifting body design, It's big, plenty of room to pack in all the new AVF systems, It already incorporates some of the Passive stealth geometry, as well as being a combat proven design. Since the R&D work had been done, it cuts costs, and allows the UN Spacy to field a low cost, high performance fighter. (I also like the VF-0 because it resembles my favorite Battlemech, the Stinger, and it's the only toy I have that does so, my VF-1's are S models). The Dimensions of the VF-0 are not too dissimilar from the YF-19, which is the gold standard in AVF design.

Basically, I'm wanting to see what VF's folks want to see reimagined as AVF entries, for the purposes of this exercise, we'll assume the Year is 2038, 2 years before the Project Supernova Trials, Which eliminates some of the later entries (Y/VF-19, YF-21/VF-22, VF-25, VF-29 are already past that spec, and the VF-17 doesn't qualify since it's a special operations mech).

And give some in universe reasoning as to why you'd choose that design.

You could use the failure of the Vf-3000 to justify a space rated VF-0C/D as a fighter/bomber VF. The -3000 was bigger, as is the -0 series. The C/D delta wing allows more ordnance storage, and it has the dorsal hardpoints for extra micromissile pods.

For my Mekton conversion, I completely stole the weapons pods from the Advanced SuperHornet for the -0, using them for the big underwing missile pods that held 6 'HAIM-95' that we never see. Each pod holds up to 4 spaces of ordnance, and the A/B/S can have one under each wing, with one optionally replacing the gunpod, and the C/D can have 2 under each wing plus one optionally replacing the gunpod.

I've thought that M:II could work if inserted into the mid-late 2010s to 2020s. Second Gen VFs and Destroids. No orbital defense set up yet, not much of space fleet aside from the salvage grade Macross Cannons. All the second line atmo-only VF, Gerwalk/air-mechs and destroids failed to work effectively, leading to the all VF policy later. A relatively minor enemy fleet romped and stomped all over them. The SDF-1 was destroyed though which is contradicted for later stories.

One problem would be the concurrent issue of the VF2s and VF4s from canon, along with the VF-XX for the Zents and the Metal Siren, all of which disappeared quickly. OTOH, all that could have been replaced by the VF-11 program issued en masse.

I taped most of the original air episodes of Robotech when it came out in the US, of course, after watching each episode I rewound and taped over it (d'oh). We went on vacation the week it switched from Macross to SouthernCross and I was completely confused for a while.

They actually work for the original FAST Packs, as the main engines drop down into a bent position in Super-Valkyrie mode, thus creating a configuration where all four thrusters point towards a common center. Later episodes and series tend to go back and forth on how well it's represented, but in their very first appearance, it's pretty clear:

If the rockets had the same power as the main thrusters, that would work. However, the booster rockets are supposed to be 5 times more powerful then the leg thrusters. (120 vs 23)

One awkward bit about most FAST pack boosters is the line of thrust is so much higher then the center of mass, the fighter would just go spinning tail over nose when the big boosters are fired up. VF-1s in particular. The fighter would have to be flying at a severe nose up angle to get the line of thrust through the center of mass.

Yes, I've seen the picture, but the weight of the fighter is not balanced on top of the thrust column.

Nearly all the weight is in front of the exhaust. Look at the real-life Harrier, the engine is in the center of the plane, not the tail.

This is as good a place to ask as any, does anyone else have issues with the VF22s Gerwalk form? The thrust exhaust is in the farthest back part of the body, and nearly all the weight is in front of the thrust vectoring outlets, there's no way it can center its mass on the exhaust column.

With all the other VFs with leg mounted engines, when the legs are under the center of the body they at least looks balanced.

image borrowed from M3: