Valkyrie1981

Nothing can ever save us from the utter stupidity of Delta. There is nothing to redeem buy mecha design... However it is so tainted by the Walkure the entire thing should be burned to the ground, never to be seen again. Maybe used to torture terrorists or something, because I would rather be waterboarded then watch that crap again.

I've watched it a couple times now, and I feel that the choreographed dancing Valkyries was the point I felt repulsed by Delta. However I feel that the dancing Valkyries are only going to worsen. The Walkures can possibly evolve... It's possible they can improve.... However, if dancing Valkyries continue and expands encroaching on the Dog Fighting... things are going downhill very quickly...

So magic.

Some please explain to me how these magical girls ride the valkries like chariots while telling the laws of gravity and Inertia to go F themselves, they need not apply....

I wish you were right but its going to be really hard to under the Magical Girl Group Walkures.... I am not saying the entire Series is ruined... but seriously crippled by them... They have 25 episodes to recover... I Hope they do.

So what you are implying is that Macross simply can't stand on there own, that pandering the mahou shoujo crowd is what Macross needs? This has nothing to do with making a good story and everything to do with going after the 13-24 year old woman's market in Japan. Anytime you sacrifice the DNA of a story to pander to an outside audience isn't clever or trying something new... It is being lazy. There is nothing new about Magical Girls... Do you think Macross could do anything that this flooded market hasn't already done? They aren't even a good Magical Girl team.... I am sure if some effort was made Shoji Kawamori and Studio Nue could of come up with something other than... the totally uninspiring Magical Girls, that ride on Valyries like chariots.... Drones that break everything known to the technology of Macross... That do insane things that if can be used on a tiny drone... WHY THE HELL NOT ON A VALKYRIE? The studio was to busy trying to make the Magical Girl genre work in the Macross Universe they ignored everything about Macross to ram in the Walkures. There is nothing new about magical girls... They've been around since 1953 or 1962 depending on who you ask. Fine, don't go traditional.... You can still do something original and new.... Here is something off the top of my head. The NUN-Spacy aren't the only one with Songstress Forces... That it is in fact more of a mercenary gig... Idols don't just make millions singing, but work with PMC in the on going Ver Syndrome pandemic. Want to weaken a rival colony? Want to have a hostile take over of your rivals company? You can higher these Songstress to cause or stop outbreaks and hurt or help a company or colony... Even do targeted attacks... The NUN Spacy simply doesn't have the cash to get the best Songstresses and people are losing confidence in the fragile Unified Government. Private Military Companies gain more power, as colonies require protection from not just other colony but from the Ver Syndrome. The worst off are non-settled colonies, with limited resources in space they become targets to pirates and un-cultured Zentradi. With the NUN-Spacy on the verge of being dissolved they put together a rookie team of Songstress the Wulkures... Not the greats group of girls but ones with the heart and morals to do what is right and not give into the money the other Songstresses get. Together they face off against these Mercenary Songstress and together they can take an individual down. It's hard, the group was thrown together they aren't all friends... And they also have a target on their backs families at risk... The team of Valkyrie pilots assigned to protect them are elite, but desertion in the NUN-Spacy is at record levels and they are running into old friends putting stress on them. The Anti-Unification Forces are becoming more organized begin to work together to stop and kill the Wulkures... and they can... they do... maybe some do die.. The team must face the dangers of an all out Civil War within the NUN-Spacy and everyone is relying on them to stop it. That is a lot of pressure.... They don't always have to be riding like Sound Force... Maybe they come in on the Valkyries but disembark Ranka Lee Style like in Macross Frontier Episode "Fastest Delivery" Hell let them have shields, but they aren't there for these non combat civilians to use, but to keep them alive, because they have far more value than random person on the street. Maybe some can fly in Valkyries or even pilot... in support. But NO riding like a chariot bullshit or magical flying around and leaping from building to building. It would also be cool because you can do dueling songs between the Wulkures and Mercenary Songstresses or Mercenary groups. It's just not young up and coming star, but a group... The social dynamics of something like that is writing gold... All of which fits into the Macross DNA. If I can pull this out of my head in a few minutes and it is original and sounds a hell of a lot better than shoving Magic Girls into the series it shows that Studio Nue or Kawamori or both might have just sold out Macross in the name marketing to the Magical Girl audience.

If the Walkures sat rear of a two seater Valkyrie like Sound Force.... Or flew there own and shot those silly speaker bullets, with holographic drones projecting silly dancers... That's fine... I could live with it, it would fit well within the series. But magical girls who fly, float, jump tall builds, control super god like drones with hand gesture or thought, ignore absolute physics an ride on a Valkyrie like a chariot... they even have transformation sequences.... No... That is and never was Macross. To say is was, is an absolute lie.

When was magical girls ever apart of Macross? The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Minmay Lynn... An America Got Talent style, zero to hero Music idol who has an idolized idea of what the Stardom would bring, but not the pressure or heartache that comes with it. Her messy and failed relationship with Lynn Kaifunn... Even her relationship with Hikaru wasn't perfect. No Magical Girls. Macross Plus: Three Childhood friends meet up and if things aren't bad enough a psychotic AI thrusts them into one final epic showdown on who truly loved Myung Fang Lone. Great series... Still no Magical Girls. Macross 7: Well... There are no real love triangles... Fire Bomber and the Sound Force work together to stop the Protodeviln from making a Spiritia Farm... Spiritia which brings in an entire concept of Shinto "Life Force or Ki" or if you are more into a western reference of a soul. Which brings a religious aspect to Macross that was interesting. No love triangles and still no Magical Girls... Macross Frontier: A tip of the hat to the 25 plus year history of Macross. (Well other than totally ignoring that whole Spiritia, protodevilin stuff.) You have your innocent Minmay style character... A moody teenager male lead, and a... Super Star Music Idol to complete the triangle. Now to make Frontier they had to revisit and fiddle with the timeline... No problem Macross Zero was good... Shockingly there were no Magical girls in either Frontier or Zero.... So lets see here.... Are Magical Girls in Macross.... Lets see maybe Sound Force but how many named members are there? Mylene Flare Jenius.... and....... So magical girls with magical god like super drones.... Have always been in Macross? Hmmmm Are you sure you have watched Macross... It doesn't sound like you watched Macross? It sounds like you want to blindly defend Macross Delta. Or maybe you are just into big bouncing boobs, and don't care about the series integrity.

To think that Japan should Americanize their show is smoking something good. Japan is one of the most Xenophobic Nations in the world... You might as well ask them to apologize to China for the Rape of Nanking. You can not remove music from Macross, it is fundamentally part of it's DNA.

The Walkures are absolutely ridiculous, they are cheap, and not Macross. The Walkures turns the idol side of the Macross Series into a marketing sellout. The changes to the series Shoji Kawamori, makes him look lazy... You spice up Macross by throwing a Magical Girl team at the show? Marketing wise, sure they make money though the market is pretty much flooded, with Jewelpet: Magical Change, Go! Princes PreCure, Cute High Earth, Glitter Force, and the billion others... Dancing Valkyries... Is this the Mecha action anyone was hoping for? Them milking the SV-262 transformations.... The VF-31 Siegfried is a modified VF-25 Messiah.... With Studio Nue using CG modeling for all Valkyries they should be able to put together more than two Valkyries with Fast Packs... Macross 7 Had a great variety of Valkyrie's throughout the series from the VF-1 to the VF-22, and they were slaving it old school with hand drawing it all... Macross Frontier I get it, first use of the technology... I love the VF-25 Messiah it was the proof of concept of the technology... With all of this said we get a VF-31... The SV-262, looks bad ass... Not saying two Valkyries is simply not good enough... I am fine... But if you are going to go out of there way to plaster us with some mahou shoujo... Why not make a couple more Valkyries... If you're working to make some money selling a few more models couldn't of hurt.... To disconnect the travesty that is the Walkures, I don't think can be done... The series has been knee caped by their magical girl, boob bouncing, transformation sequences, shenanigans.... It's only chance of recovery is one hell of a story... Epic Space Combat... Maybe a deeper or darker side to the main characters... Does Freyja Wion really have to be this naive innocent (Ranka Lee 2.0) type of character. Maybe she isn't as naive or innocent as she looks. With a self animating heart tumor thing in her hair maybe not. Also with the stereo typical emo like, "I don't give a crap so that makes me look edgy" lead male role Hayate being some closeted dancer... I don't know how you can save that... All I see is a lot more Dancing Valkyries... Next thing you will see is Shoji Kawamori consulting with Susan Stroman for the choreography of the dancing Valkyrie short video.... Sigh.... Macross Delta has stumbled out of the gate but it doesn't mean it can't finish strong... A lot of promise with the Ver Syndrome story line, a possible side effect from that happened during the Frontier incident. Also a possible return of a Anti Unification group, So I guess a Anti-NUN-Spacy Group. From the production notes, they are organized as some kind of Monarchy, which doesn't make much sense being against Big Government organizations yet being a monarch... Maybe it isn't a absolute Monarch... Delta can still be a good series, even if it has to drag the Walkures... If Kawamori wanted to really really bring in Magical girls, he should of looked more to Puella Magi Madoka Magica or the Miraculous Ladybug... Not Sailor Moon, or PreCure. I also know my English isn't very good, sorry.

In all honestly these characters are ridiculously dumb... The Walkure.... Seriously... Macross Could just be Macross? They had to go into the Magical girl Genre? They Nuked the Fridge even more with their backup dancing Valkyries in the Aerial Knights... Seriously... Sound Force was already pushing it. These magical girls who can control God like drones with their minds, with shields powerful enough to take heavy direct energy weapons... holographic systems... and omni-direction flight controls... Yet these tiny things and there super shields aren't used to protect say the VALKYRIES!!!! Or say the entire city that gets leveled during episode one? Wouldn't that be a better use of this god like technology... To have them simply form shields around all the buildings? Not be glorified holographic cameras for the Sailor Scouts.... So what else can we say about the stupid of the Walkure's... Oh yes... they can fly, float, jump at insane distances wearing sheer skin tight clothing... Mind you that this stuff has to be magical... For they can magically appear out of no where with bonus Sailor Moon transformation sequence... So I am guessing it has its own holographic systems, propulsion, communications system microphones, and they are also a G-suit... Why a G-suit you might ask... Because... They ride Valkyrie's like roman chariots... Yes my friends... They ride on top of them with easy, as they fly in all three modes... In combat.... Lets not get into the fact that the Walkures are a mix of every single sick Japanese sex fetish put together..... Macross Delta isn't Macross... It was Sailor Moon on a very bad acid trip... How can anyone think that this crap is okay for Macross? Out of all the BAD things Macross Delta could have done.. They did them all with the stupidity of the Walkures....

If anything is if you put enough engines on it, it will fly is the F-4 Phantom.

I am blown away by all the responses to this thread I started. I was an A-10A Thunderbolt II (Took my HD after 6 years before the C Model was in place) So I was dealing with some pretty primitive stuff. So far we've had some fellow Air Force Crew Chiefs, Australian Royal Air Force, British Royal Air Force, Computer programmers, designers, and simulators all working on this problem. We've also went above and beyond the topic into some very detailed stuff that I was very happy to geek out on. I am very much reminded of my time sitting at End of Runway waiting for planes and bullshitting with all the other chiefs of the different air frames everyone bitching and problem solving one problem or another be it the Viper, the Eagle, even got to work with a Germany Mig-29 Fulcrum... Which the Germans hated maintaining... As they stated those shits broke as soon as they got them. After all of this I think I have come to the conclusion that the VF-1 Valkyrie can fly effectively without traditional elevators to provide pitch control. The vector thrust and puff-jets as well as using the elevator tabs will work. I have also done a little more research into this and noticed during the Macross: Do You Remember Love? (Opening) for the PSX Game at the 00:50 mark the VF-1 does a quick flight control check. In this the Ailerons clearly move in the same directions as a elevator which make them obviously Elevon. I initially gave very little faith to the Elevon system after personally watching a F-117 fall from the sky like a bird having a stroke and ruining a lot of peoples houses and forcing the Air Force to buy out the entire neighborhood and bulldoze it. (Its RAM was still Top Secret back then.) However my research back into the elevon turned me to the Convair F-102 Delta Dagger... Man was that thing a piece of crap, but had workable elevons. I also had issues with elevons really reducing the Valkyrie's cander during pitch messing with wing efficiency (under the impression before that the surface area was bad which turns out I was wrong), but throw in Puff jets and vector thrust and the elevons will work out. One thing we really didn't go into as a possibility is Adaptive Compliant Wings, Fluidic Logic Systems, or Active Aeroelastic Wing. All of which are sound terrestrial systems we will most likely see in 6th Generation aircraft. Which makes you look at the VF as being a more ahead of its time than a 4 Gen going for a design that didn't have elevators. It was also confirmed on this thread without a shadow of a doubt that the VF-171 Nightmare Plus Leg thrust vectoring design being locked in fighter mode that way is stupid, and needs to go to the stupid farm, so it can be beaten to death by a herd of cows!

Thanks for all the welcomes, and responses. All sound reasonable, but the Anime is magic one. Still would be pretty awesome to see a VF-1 based off of 5th Gen Fighters, which it would be based off of if designed in early 00's as it is in the series, than the 70's tech of 4Gen and 4Gen+ Technology.

Been a Macross/ Robotech fan since I was a child, I entered the US Air Force right after High School and became a Crew Chief (Aircraft Maintenance Technician) This brought me into a crash course in Aerospace Engineering. Now I am not a Aerospace Engineer, however the VF-1 Valkyrie has two very big flaws. Wing Surface area, and total lack of elevators. (Not going to get into the insanity of the transformation of the leg hand off system) Now the usual argument is that the VF-1 uses Thrust vectoring, however a lot of Air Forces have been playing around with that and one thing the NASA High Alpha Research Vehicle test program has shown is that it can not come close to replacing the elevators, they are better for enhancing an aircraft not replacing critical flight controls. This is why ALL aircraft that use Thrust Vectoring like the F-22, F-35, SU-35 have elevators. Thrust Vectoring with the VF-1's elevator tabs that are on the legs still will not provide the the maneuverability and control needed for the aircraft. Now I have seen posts referencing the F-117 Nighthawk as an example of a aircraft without elevators, but even if it was given a F "Fighter" moniker, the F-117 was a Bomber... It could only carry 2 bombs and that is it. It was never made to do anything like dogfight or dodge period. If it went to crazy on its angle of attack the wings would fall off, it was a Gen 1 Stealth plane and was built for one job sneak in drop some bombs, sneak out. Without elevators the VF-1 is highly unstable which isn't that big of an issue, but simply cant bank, turn, or pitch, well at all. Most Generation 4 Aircraft like F-16, F-18, or the SU-30 would fly circles around the VF-1 which has little to no maneuverability in fighter mode especially at low speed. I have seen people try and point to the McDonnell Douglas X-36 which yes is tailless but it had canards to act as elevators which once again does nothing to address the flaw. Even the most widely used tailless design aircraft in the world, the Dassault Mirage always had problems with pitch and canards were added in later version to solve the problem. And to simply say its Alien tech is a bit of a cheat.... Flying is a pretty straight forward concept, one that we humans have been improving since the creation of powered flight and for the VF-1 to be what it is, a Fighter Aircraft that can even dogfight it needs elevators. Also the aircraft was designed using the knowledge of the late 70's. If the VF-1 was designed in the era it was said to be made in... The VF-1 would be far more capable than what we have to work with. The success of the F-22 is because it has 4 large empennage surfaces, and its Trapezoidal wing. Now the VF-1 look has been ingrained into the world but it would be interesting to see someone design any VF that doesn't have its roots in obsolete Gen 4 designs. Even the VF-25 is not very atmosphere friendly.