Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar short film

[Roy Focker]

Did they dig out every dinosaur they could find slap them in a space suit?

[ErikElvis]

Did they dig out every dinosaur they could find slap them in a space suit?

Haha!

I did donate because that 2 mins I watched looked decent.

[Mommar]

I hear there are A LOT of donors unhappy with how that Kickstarter turned out. They're calling for heads, claiming they haven't been transparent with how the money has been spent at all.

It's a lot like reading the Robotech Kickstarter threads, actually.

[technoblue]

I hear there are A LOT of donors unhappy with how that Kickstarter turned out. They're calling for heads, claiming they haven't been transparent with how the money has been spent at all.

It's a lot like reading the Robotech Kickstarter threads, actually.

I've read about that in the updates, but I'm not sure what the issue is because the Kickstarter campaign was promoted to fund physical assets only (pre-production costs, set construction, sound stage assets, and was outlined very well). My nice guy response is that I guess some people got confused because of the perks? But I dunno, that's as far as I take it.

With regard to communication and transparency, I call BS on that. There are multiple access points:

• The startrekaxanar facebook updates
• The startrekaxanar.com web site updates (I use this because I don't have facebook), or
• The 77 updates for the Axanar Kickstarter campaign itself, which has referenced the other updates multiple times

And this is where I get irked. At the end of the day, what the Kickstarter brouhaha illustrates is entitlement in its worst form from a minority who is upset because they don't get content creation or basic reading. Fair enough. The Axanar team appears to be giving money back to those who are really vocal about it.

TL;DR: I don't get the complaints.

Edit: I didn't want to write "is giving" above since I'm not affiliated with Axanar Productions, and I only know what I've seen in the Kickstarter feeds concerning this topic.

Edited July 28, 2015 by technoblue

[Mommar]

I've read about that in the updates, but I'm not sure what the issue is because the Kickstarter campaign was promoted to fund physical assets only (pre-production costs, set construction, sound stage assets, and was outlined very well). My nice guy response is that I guess some people got confused because of the perks? But I dunno, that's as far as I take it.

With regard to communication and transparency, I call BS on that. There are multiple access points:

• The startrekaxanar facebook updates
• The startrekaxanar.com web site updates (I use this because I don't have facebook), or
• The 77 updates for the Axanar Kickstarter campaign itself, which has referenced the other updates multiple times

And this is where I get irked. At the end of the day, what the Kickstarter brouhaha illustrates is entitlement in its worst form from a minority who is upset because they don't get content creation or basic reading. Fair enough. The Axanar team appears to be giving money back to those who are really vocal about it.

TL;DR: I don't get the complaints.

Edit: I didn't want to write "is giving" above since I'm not affiliated with Axanar Productions, and I only know what I've seen in the Kickstarter feeds concerning this topic.

I agree, but the screaming and crying are about the same things. The Axanar campaign was very clear what they were doing. Most of it is just inflated expectations and low reading comprehension.

[Dobber]

I agree, but the screaming and crying are about the same things. The Axanar campaign was very clear what they were doing. Most of it is just inflated expectations and low reading comprehension.

You guys pretty much nailed it. Nothing fishy was happen ending on the Axanar side of things. People just didn't bother reading things well enough and probably really wanted their Perks right away. Delays happen, no big deal to me, they have been very good at keeping people informed. Don't want people who are interested in this to get put off by a stupid few.

Chris

[boinger]

I like what the Axanar team has done so far with the prelude mini-movie, so I contributed for the expanded documentary

before there was a full movie in mind. I also contributed to the IndieGoGo Axanar campaign once I had seen that

these guys were really serious in making a very cool ST movie.

With two separate fund drives, they have almost enough for the 1st of 4 parts even though there is a

definite push for more funds through enlisting ST actors like George Takei. I'm hoping that Team Axanar

gets the full funds, but I'm doubtful.

To me, it looks like there will have to be fund drive every 3 months for each quarter section of the

movie to get the full budget funded. I would be okay with that.

Edited July 29, 2015 by boinger

[UN Spacy]

New rules for Trek related fan films. It doesn't look good for Axanar.

http://www.startrek.com/fan-films?ecid=PCID-2617611&pa=affcj

The fan production must be less than 15 minutes for a single self-contained story, or no more than 2 segments, episodes or parts, not to exceed 30 minutes total, with no additional seasons, episodes, parts, sequels or remakes.

Edited June 23, 2016 by UN Spacy

[Dynaman]

New rules for Trek related fan films. It doesn't look good for Axanar.

http://www.startrek.com/fan-films?ecid=PCID-2617611&pa=affcj

The fan production must be less than 15 minutes for a single self-contained story, or no more than 2 segments, episodes or parts, not to exceed 30 minutes total, with no additional seasons, episodes, parts, sequels or remakes.

That pretty much kills ALL the Trek Fandom productions. I think I can hear the wailing already,

[peter]

[Roy Focker]

Yep it ends them all.

[Mr March]

Ah, so this is what they were really planning when they pretended to play nice a while back. I suspected something like this would happen, as an attempt to head off all the fan-built projects. I'm curious what this could mean for fan-created content going forward. Will other IP holders follow suit, or will this turn out to be a disaster for Paramount?

[Knight26]

The question fans are asking now is if it is retroactive to in-production fan films as well. That will be the only thing that might save Axanar, Renegades, Phase II, etc...
What is really going on here is that Paramount is scared that the higher end fan productions will outshine their movies and TV shows.
Paramount should have included a clause regarding permission for longer projects, or projects that use professional crews. By doing that they could monetize the fan film under their label, almost like a Star Wars Infinities thing, the fan film makers could get their costs covered with any profit going to Paramount.
The thing I laugh most about with this, is how ST fans said the Disney purchase of Lucasfilm would kill SW fan productions, and now Paramount is killing ST fan films.

[Dynaman]

The only real question is why they let the ST fan productions get to the point they did - no company wants to let something go so far out of their control.

As for letting fans continue and taking profits from said films, two words "legal nightmare". If someone gets hurt on such a production - or starts a lawsuit, or uses it as a pretext to say Paramount (or whoever) is trying to get around the professional actors union, etc...

[azrael]

The only real question is why they let the ST fan productions get to the point they did - no company wants to let something go so far out of their control.

How many fan productions have gone to the level of this fan work?

As for letting fans continue and taking profits from said films, two words "legal nightmare". If someone gets hurt on such a production - or starts a lawsuit, or uses it as a pretext to say Paramount (or whoever) is trying to get around the professional actors union, etc...

As much as fans may be screaming about these guidelines, people forget that Paramount/CBS needs to protect themselves from any legal ramifications fan productions could produce.

[Mr March]

Perhaps this is incorrect, but is there not a legality about jeopardizing your IP rights by not actively protecting them. Like, if you don't engage in some kind of protest to the illegal use of your IP, you can set a prescedent that can be used against you should a more serious future dispute arise? Perhaps this is all wrong, but maybe that might be why CBS and Paramount are bouncing around this topic so much. Perhaps they really don't have that much of a problem with fan films at all, but they just have to plant their flag, so to speak, to protect their IP in any future litigation.

[azrael]

Perhaps this is incorrect, but is there not a legality about jeopardizing your IP rights by not actively protecting them. Like, if you don't engage in some kind of protest to the illegal use of your IP, you can set a prescedent that can be used against you should a more serious future dispute arise? Perhaps this is all wrong, but maybe that might be why CBS and Paramount are bouncing around this topic so much. Perhaps they really don't have that much of a problem with fan films at all, but they just have to plant their flag, so to speak, to protect their IP in any future litigation.

Yep. Ask we've mentioned on this site, technically, all fan works are IP infringement. Paramount/CBS is just putting it in writing what is tolerable according to the law. As I said, if they didn't do this, it basically opens them to a lot more trouble.

[Dynaman]

Perhaps this is incorrect, but is there not a legality about jeopardizing your IP rights by not actively protecting them. Like, if you don't engage in some kind of protest to the illegal use of your IP, you can set a prescedent that can be used against you should a more serious future dispute arise? Perhaps this is all wrong, but maybe that might be why CBS and Paramount are bouncing around this topic so much. Perhaps they really don't have that much of a problem with fan films at all, but they just have to plant their flag, so to speak, to protect their IP in any future litigation.

That is how it is supposed to work, protect it or lose it but realistically I don't think it really is the case anymore. Take this business with Paramount/CBS and Star Trek. They have let the fandom make these productions for YEARS now - and Paramount/CBS most certainly knew about them and did nothing till now. With all of that they can still come out now and in effect say "we changed our mind".

[technoblue]

The Axanar case is still in litigation. I'm guessing the public has only seen the extremes of what both sides want: Axanar's side and CBS/Paramount's side. Without all the legalese messing up public interpretation, the reality of what the court decides may end up being more of a compromise when all is said and done.

Personally, I think CBS/Paramount has an uphill battle. They have allowed liberal production of fan works for years, decades even. It's hard to put that genie back into the bottle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_fan_productions

To me, the saddest thing is how some are blaming the Axanar team for bringing down the infringement hammer. I think they just had the misfortune of having two good crowdfunding campaigns that put them above the radar. It made them the first scapegoat. But if Axanar hadn't been chosen, then someone else would have been all the same.

[slide]

That is how it is supposed to work, protect it or lose it but realistically I don't think it really is the case anymore. Take this business with Paramount/CBS and Star Trek. They have let the fandom make these productions for YEARS now - and Paramount/CBS most certainly knew about them and did nothing till now. With all of that they can still come out now and in effect say "we changed our mind".

Actually, If that's really the fight [and I don't think it is] then Axanar's basically guaranteed to win... all they have to do is say "Hey, what about all of these other fan films? you didn't call the lawyers on them, so you've set a precedent" [Precedent is a thing in American law, yes?]

I'm pretty sure they're fighting for a different reason.

To me, the saddest thing is how some are blaming the Axanar team for bringing down the infringement hammer. I think they just had the misfortune of having two good crowdfunding campaigns that put them above the radar. It made them the first scapegoat. But if Axanar hadn't been chosen, then someone else would have been all the same.

There are reports and accusations of shady money-handling on the production's part, resulting in alleged personal financial gain, which is why [in my opinion] they're getting Ban-Hammered...

but only time will tell I suppose

Edited June 24, 2016 by slide

[Dynaman]

Axanar is just one example. There are other examples of delayed IP protection enforcement that have worked. It could also be that the defend it or lose it part is only in reference to Trademarks. If you let a trademark become a common name for something it will get lost.

[technoblue]

Axanar is just one example. There are other examples of delayed IP protection enforcement that have worked. It could also be that the defend it or lose it part is only in reference to Trademarks. If you let a trademark become a common name for something it will get lost.

Maybe. I mean, I know what you're getting at, but then I question why the judge hasn't been quick to toss out the case in CBS/Paramount's favor? There seems to be more about this than what is out in the public eye at the moment. I do think that the fallout from the Axanar case will become precedent for future infringement rulings. The thing about the convenient and accessible nature of technology today is that I think more collisions between fans and rights holders are bound to happen.

[Dynaman]

The thing is, for most fan productions the mere threat of legal action will be enough to stop them since they do not have the money (or financial incentive) to fight. It is not like a lone writer writing some fan fiction and posting it to the internet, it takes some time and money to produce videos.

[technoblue]

The thing is, for most fan productions the mere threat of legal action will be enough to stop them since they do not have the money (or financial incentive) to fight. It is not like a lone writer writing some fan fiction and posting it to the internet, it takes some time and money to produce videos.

No argument from me on that. It also could explain the fractures in the fan base over this case and how it ends.

[Sandman]

Well this is bad news for Star Trek continues and phase 2 which I've surprisingly come to enjoy these last few months. I'm not usually a fan of these projects but those have been good. Also been meaning to check out that horizon film.

[slide]

CBS and Paramount release official guidelines for all Star Trek fan films

WELL then...

In addition other things they said, i think this is very telling:

"The fan production must be a real “fan” production, i.e., creators, actors and all other participants must be amateurs, cannot be compensated for their services, and cannot be currently or previously employed on any Star Trek series, films, production of DVDs or with any of CBS or Paramount Pictures’ licensees."

>>>Link should be fixed<<<

Edited June 26, 2016 by slide

[Sandman]

Wow they're really pissing all over the fan productions. Tons of previous actors have appeared in the fan films.

CBS and Paramount release official guidelines for all Star Trek fan films

WELL then...

In addition other things they said, i think this is very telling:

"The fan production must be a real “fan” production, i.e., creators, actors and all other participants must be amateurs, cannot be compensated for their services, and cannot be currently or previously employed on any Star Trek series, films, production of DVDs or with any of CBS or Paramount Pictures’ licensees."

By the way your link doesn't work. It takes us to the beginning of this topic.

[areaseven]

Edited June 26, 2016 by areaseven

[technoblue]

Prelude to Axanar isn't what drew the ire of CBS/Paramount. It was all the fundraising and such that came after to continue the story...

Axanar Teaser 1 "Stands United"

Axanar Teaser 2 "Honor Through Victory"

[Hikuro]

Yep, pretty horrible guidelines, and a good way on craping out on the fans for everything they've done for what? 50 years? I can understand why so many will want to boycott Paramount and CBS.

[Dobber]

I'm surprised no one's posted the official video here. So for those who haven't seen it yet...

I did in the first post when I started the thread. It just not a separate imbedded video.

Chris

[Sildani]

As far as why the case hasn't been thrown out: Axanar is represented by Winston & Strawn, who are very very good at what they do. Look up Chapterhouse Studios vs. Games Workshop for an example.

[technoblue]

As far as why the case hasn't been thrown out: Axanar is represented by Winston & Strawn, who are very very good at what they do. Look up Chapterhouse Studios vs. Games Workshop for an example.

Thanks, Sildani. Reading through the highlights of the Games Workshop case gives me a positive vibe. It would be very cool if Winston & Strawn are able to win back some leniency for Axanar (and other fan-based works by proxy). I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[slide]

Yea... But Mr. Mystery-box doesn't speak for Paramount/CBS, or their legal department... he can sit there and say whatever he wants to get a cheer from the crowd instead of getting asked more and more uncomfortable/unanswerable questions about the mess, which i don't think he or Bad Robot are involved in [in any way] at the moment.

also that video is dated 21 May 2016... nobody is that hopeful at this point, and Paramount has released their official stance on Fan-films.

THOSE are their rules, no matter what JJ said/says:

CBS and Paramount release official guidelines for all Star Trek fan films

Link fixed, read it and weep fellow Trekers.

extra update/official comment about the guidelines from Alec Peter, Executive producer for Axanar at the bottom of the article.

Edited June 26, 2016 by slide

[azrael]

From the sounds of it, Axanar folks were making some monetary payback off a property they don't own. If actors were getting paid, professional people were getting paid for services, or if the producers paid themselves, then that's income generated by someone. Someone made money off a product they didn't own. Yes, CBS/Paramount are going to make people angry with these guidelines, but they own the franchise. If they don't do this, then that makes them potentially liable for any legalities, however minor.