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Vernier vs Burner - have the translations been wrong for years?

translations wrong for years?

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#1 sketchley

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:27 PM

バーニア = burner. Not vernier??

Today, I picked up my 1/100 VF-19 Kai model box to start translating it, and lo and behold, on the cover, in English:
"Assistance Engine: High Manoeuvrability Burner, Thruster P & W HMM-6R"

It's begging the question, has バーニア been mistranslated all these years? Burner does make a lot more sense than vernier in the context. But so would RCS (Reaction Control System) thrusters [but as they're apparently one and the same in some contexts... :unsure: ]

The Wikipedia article* adds more confusion. Some of the VF-19's vernier thrusters use diverted engine thrust, matching the description. However, most others do not... :huh:


* http://en.wikipedia....ernier_thruster

Edited by sketchley, 27 February 2012 - 07:27 PM.


#2 VF5SS

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:54 PM

http://ja.wikipedia....ki/バーニダ

#3 Renato

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:46 PM

"Burner" would be バーナー.

#4 eugimon

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:21 PM

master file for the vf-19 and 25 both have it labeled as "vernier thruster" in english.

#5 David Hingtgen

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:03 PM

Remember it's a French word, like pitot, so it's pronounced ver-nee-ay. Not ver-neer. Plural=ver-nee-ays.

PS---so, katakana experts, accounting for the French pronunciation, does that affect spelling/canon?

PPS--of course, how many people in Japan would know how it's correctly pronounced and thus translate it properly?

#6 Graham

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 01:49 AM

I've always pronounced it "Ver-nee-er".

Graham

#7 sketchley

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:09 AM

"Burner" would be バーナー.


Touché

I was thinking along the same lines during the work day after I made the OP.

master file for the vf-19 and 25 both have it labeled as "vernier thruster" in english.


That opens the logic bomb: is it romanized that way because that's how most people Anglicize the original Japanese and the writers of said book copied those translations?

Also, by the definition given above and the content of the VFMF books, the usage doesn't match the English definition. So that adds the question of: when the Japanese borrowed the term, did they import it with all potential uses and the full range of the specific use that the term is generally used in?

Remember it's a French word, like pitot, so it's pronounced ver-nee-ay. Not ver-neer. Plural=ver-nee-ays.

PS---so, katakana experts, accounting for the French pronunciation, does that affect spelling/canon?

PPS--of course, how many people in Japan would know how it's correctly pronounced and thus translate it properly?


It would be romanized as: Baania /baːnia/

PS neat. Copy paste of hotlinks here includes the hotlink. [Ref: each of the IPA letters]

Edited by sketchley, 29 February 2012 - 05:10 AM.


#8 TehPW

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:38 AM

say your a retard 9th grader attending some school on some Macross-7 era Colony ship (not nessessarliy M7's fleet) on a tour aboard one the Escort Gitmo's... you ask what is a good example of overtech. the tour guide points the vernier's (about as small packaging of a otherwise huge pulming package as you can get) of a handy on-hand VF-11... or VF-14.... derp... something with really small ass fart nozzles that in all other concepts should be as big as your dad's Ford F-150 (with the extended cab)... or maybe an Abrahms Tank... eitherway, anime magic = Overtech = FTW



:blink: maybe they should do a side story about the AD's that work on those Verniers (and everything else related to propulsion)

Edited by TehPW, 29 February 2012 - 08:41 AM.


#9 anime52k8

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:42 AM

say your a retard 9th grader attending some school on some Macross-7 era Colony ship (not nessessarliy M7's fleet) on a tour aboard one the Escort Gitmo's... you ask what is a good example of overtech. the tour guide points the vernier's (about as small packaging of a otherwise huge pulming package as you can get) of a handy on-hand VF-11... or VF-14.... derp... something with really small ass fart nozzles that in all other concepts should be as big as your dad's Ford F-150 (with the extended cab)... or maybe an Abrahms Tank... eitherway, anime magic = Overtech = FTW



:blink: maybe they should do a side story about the AD's that work on those Verniers (and everything else related to propulsion)


That made absolutely zero sense.

#10 Renato

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:50 PM

That made absolutely zero sense.

Heh, I read the first four words and gave up.

#11 VF5SS

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 05:59 PM

I don't think anyone wants to read something that includes the word "Gitmo."

#12 sketchley

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 06:39 PM

Yeah. Let's pretend that not everyone watches US TV and that the actual name of the ship class is Guantanamo?

Edited by sketchley, 03 March 2012 - 06:40 PM.


#13 TehPW

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 08:28 PM

heh, can't be helped that most popular class of Space Aircraft Carrier is also the name of a rather unfornate place on the globe (if your an 'Official Bad Guy')... maybe THAT's why the Uraga-class SCV's is intended to replace Guantanamo-class :rolleyes: ...

regardless, the intent is that our beloved Vernier, the sole reason VF's can even move in space, is the best example of Overtechnolgy you can come up with. in real life it's a huge amount of plumbing just to move the shuttle in space.... and how many does a VF-19 have on it's nose cone alone? like 3? that's comparing a beer can with the density of 10,000,000 beer cans, the mechanics of a macross vernier to reality...

Edited by TehPW, 03 March 2012 - 08:38 PM.


#14 Gubaba

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 05:44 AM

heh, can't be helped that most popular class of Space Aircraft Carrier is also the name of a rather unfornate place on the globe (if your an 'Official Bad Guy')... maybe THAT's why the Uraga-class SCV's is intended to replace Guantanamo-class :rolleyes: ...

regardless, the intent is that our beloved Vernier, the sole reason VF's can even move in space, is the best example of Overtechnolgy you can come up with. in real life it's a huge amount of plumbing just to move the shuttle in space.... and how many does a VF-19 have on it's nose cone alone? like 3? that's comparing a beer can with the density of 10,000,000 beer cans, the mechanics of a macross vernier to reality...

You're still not making much sense...

#15 VF5SS

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:33 AM

He's saying he doesn't understand the layout of a Valkyrie's vernier system since it would have some significant fuel lines to get propellant to each thruster. I mean you can just stare at all those cutaways drawings in the vain hopes of understanding what's going on.

Or just sit back and look at all the pretty people and their elaborate outfits because those are far more realistic than any Valkyrie :3

#16 Gubaba

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:35 AM

He's saying he doesn't understand the layout of a Valkyrie's vernier system since it would have some significant fuel lines to get propellant to each thruster. I mean you can just stare at all those cutaways drawings in the vain hopes of understanding what's going on.

Or just sit back and look at all the pretty people and their elaborate outfits because those are far more realistic than any Valkyrie :3

I admire Gamlin's ability to wear orange shirts.

#17 VF5SS

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:42 AM

I know right!

And he wore that orange shirt will going all John Woo on 40 terrorists! That's as many as four tens.

#18 TehPW

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 08:00 AM

Or just sit back and look at all the pretty people and their elaborate outfits because those are far more realistic than any Valkyrie :3

you're talking about COSPLAYERS right? :D

remember, im retired Navy, i understand schematics pretty well. growing up with Robo...er, Macross, i always look at 'those neeto pictures' with a little more intensity than your typical anime enthusist. I also acknoweldge that the amount of anime magic needed to make those Valkyries fly.... is probably supplied from the same company that markets their other product by a different vendor and ultimate customer: Pixie Dust :ph34r:

#19 Gubaba

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 08:09 AM

you're talking about COSPLAYERS right? :D

No, he's talking about CHARACTERS.

remember, im retired Navy, i understand schematics pretty well. growing up with Robo...er, Macross, i always look at 'those neeto pictures' with a little more intensity than your typical anime enthusist. I also acknoweldge that the amount of anime magic needed to make those Valkyries fly.... is probably supplied from the same company that markets their other product by a different vendor and ultimate customer: Pixie Dust :ph34r:

Good. Now if you could help other people understand what you mean, maybe you'd have something... ^_^

#20 miles316

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:37 PM

I presume that a variable fighter reaction control system would have separate propellant tanks for the separate sections of the fighter negating the need for a complex system of propellant lines feeding from a large central tank.


#21 Talos

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:04 PM

I would also agree that it's likely that verniers have a system of fuel lines and dedicated tanks throughout the plane to power them. It's not like that is that hard to do. Probably some capability at transferring propellent around, even with dedicated tanks though.

I'm not sure why this is even a question though. Vernier thrusters are a real life thing, roughly similar to what is shown on Macross. What part doesn't match the real world definition? I would argue that Vernier is the in-universe proper term, accurately shown in Master File, not something like "Burner", "Baniaa", et al.The show was put together by people who were aeronautic enthusiasts in a pre-internet age. They would know the term and what it meant, but it's quite possible they thought it was roughly pronounced as spelled.

What's next, "bariaburu" instead of "variable"...

Edited by Talos, 05 March 2012 - 07:05 PM.


#22 sketchley

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:26 PM

I would also agree that it's likely that verniers have a system of fuel lines and dedicated tanks throughout the plane to power them. It's not like that is that hard to do. Probably some capability at transferring propellent around, even with dedicated tanks though.


More food for thought, thanks.


What's next, "bariaburu" instead of "variable"...


:lol: No. That would be kahen (as in 可変戦闘機).

#23 eugimon

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:29 PM

the images of the verniers in the masterfile books show that they each have their own pipping that, I would assume, connects to pipping/fuel of some sort. Further, they're shown to have two couplers. I'm sure someone who can read Japanese will have more insight but in the real world, when something has two couplers, one is usually "in" and the other "out" which implies to me that they're connected in series, to a common fuel source.

Edited by eugimon, 05 March 2012 - 07:30 PM.


#24 SchizophrenicMC

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:15 AM

A vernier thruster is a small maneuvering rocket, capable of a wide range of precisely controlled thrust levels. To the best of my knowledge, that fits perfectly with what is mounted to VFs.

And what the hell is a burner? I thought a burner was what you cooked grilled cheese with.




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