1590 replies to this topic

[Jasonc]

So are the Robotech guys going to take Galvion or what

Okaaaaayyyyyy.....

I... Wow. I got nothin'.

I've said this for a long time now, some people are happy if they got sh!t on a stick with a Robotech label on it.

[VF5SS]

Okaaaaayyyyyy.....

dude the fans are taking Galvion already

they want veritech race cars

[JuanRT]

sure .. to express how I feel about the things what are going on with RT and looking for an other point of view........ I'm no here to troll

so I ask again,.. so you are a troller in rtx.com?

is ok fine I will leave it at that, I did not came here to figth with any of you

But, no. Sure, be a Robotech fan, if you want. I know that any post I make on RTX is crushing another Robotech fan's illusions. Can you say the same...?

tht's why i ask .... but I will leave it at that......... and yes I will go to others forums to see what will do Macross on the 30 aniversary...

Like I said before I don't need conversion to Macross I'm already a fan ( well leave 7 out of that mix)

[VF5SS]

well leave 7 out of that mix

NEVER FORGET 7!

EVER

deal with it

[Jasonc]

I have a feeling that in about 48 hours, the crowds will disperse. Nothing to really see here, except a few laughs.

[Darkwater]

I just came here to meet chicks.

[Graham]

Every franchise has its good parts and bad parts. I'm always amazed at seeing people declare they like ALL of Macross, or ALL of Gundam etc...
For me its just inconceivable.

Why? It's all good!

Graham

The big problem, of course, is that a lot of the RT fans don't come all the way... They come here because they got banned from RT.com, "and hey...Macross is kinda like Robotech's shittier younger brother, so why the hell not?"

Shouldn't Robotech more accurately be called Macross's younger shittier brother, given that Macross is the older and far more extensive of the two franchises.

Graham

[JuanRT]

NEVER FORGET 7!

EVER

deal with it

hahahahahaha

[UN Spacy]

Memo put the videos up, all of them are in this link

Vote this post down.

[azrael]

I have a feeling that in about 48 hours, the crowds will disperse. Nothing to really see here, except a few laughs.

That's how it always is. Popcorn?

[Cobra__]

@ Darkwater post# 1376 :

What you quote is interesting and to be honest nothing new. It was an accepted pratice back then (even without considering re-editing 3 unrelated series into one) to basically invent the story on the spot. Japanese script or no japanese script. And it sure wasn't limited only to the US.
Italy at the end of the seventies imported so much anime, 20 years worth of japanese anime and most of it was adapted lets say loosely. Not by editing out panty shots or blood but by simply inventing lines which were not there in the original. It happened for Goldrake (Grendizer), it happened more or less for all of Go Nagai's superobots shows (Mazinger Z, The great Mazinger, Jeeg, Grendizer), it happened for Capitain Harlock 1978 and 1984, it happened for Lady Oscar etc... The dub of Gundam was invented on the spot. So you see respect for japanese anime wasn't there either in Italy, in France or the US. Of course it didn't help that the japanese didn't care to give well written scripts from which to make a correct adaption. So they are to blame as well although at a lesser degree.

It is only in the last 15 years that correctly adapting japanese anime has become the norm at least in Italy. The one thing that hasn't changed is the japanese giving out substandard scripts from which to adapt. Thats one of the reasons why to correctly adapt a japanese anime you always always have to base your work on what's said in the anime and less to what's written on the scipt. Take for intance the term Universal Century in Gundam. UC is never ever pronounced in Gundam. In fact UC was being used by Bandai for its Gundam model line and later was retconned to mean Universal Century. But in the anime the characters never speak of the UC. They use Uchuu Seiki which translates to something along the lines of Space Era.
So the correct philological translation is Space Era and not Universal Century. Now look at how the american version has been translated, they use Universal Century and it is wrong. The Italian version uses the correct term Space Era. Therfore I wouldn't put a lot of importance on the scripts, what is important is what is said in the anime. That has to be the primary source for adpatation and translation to a foreign language.

[Renato]

@ Darkwater post# 1376 :

What you quote is interesting and to be honest nothing new. It was an accepted pratice back then (even without considering re-editing 3 unrelated series into one) to basically invent the story on the spot. Japanese script or no japanese script. And it sure wasn't limited only to the US.
Italy at the end of the seventies imported so much anime, 20 years worth of japanese anime and most of it was adapted lets say loosely. Not by editing out panty shots or blood but by simply inventing lines which were not there in the original. It happened for Goldrake (Grendizer), it happened more or less for all of Go Nagai's superobots shows (Mazinger Z, The great Mazinger, Jeeg, Grendizer), it happened for Capitain Harlock 1978 and 1984, it happened for Lady Oscar etc... The dub of Gundam was invented on the spot. So you see respect for japanese anime wasn't there either in Italy, in France or the US. Of course it didn't help that the japanese didn't care to give well written scripts from which to make a correct adaption. So they are to blame as well although at a lesser degree.

It is only in the last 15 years that correctly adapting japanese anime has become the norm at least in Italy. The one thing that hasn't changed is the japanese giving out substandard scripts from which to adapt. Thats one of the reasons why to correctly adapt a japanese anime you always always have to base your work on what's said in the anime and less to what's written on the scipt. Take for intance the term Universal Century in Gundam. UC is never ever pronounced in Gundam. In fact UC was being used by Bandai for its Gundam model line and later was retconned to mean Universal Century. But in the anime the characters never speak of the UC. They use Uchuu Seiki which translates to something along the lines of Space Era.
So the correct philological translation is Space Era and not Universal Century. Now look at how the american version has been translated, they use Universal Century and it is wrong. The Italian version uses the correct term Space Era. Therfore I wouldn't put a lot of importance on the scripts, what is important is what is said in the anime. That has to be the primary source for adpatation and translation to a foreign language.

"Uchuu" can be translated as both "space" and "universe", "seiki" literally does mean "century" (as in Chou jikuu seiki Orguss -- Super Dimension Century Orguss); "era", on the other hand, would be "jidai". Thus, I would say Universal Century is accurate enough, and by no means "wrong".

As for your other examples, I still think that the translation in European and Latin American broadcasts are much closer to the source material than adaptations tailored for the US market. In particular Tokyo Movie Shinsha productions, of which you mention "Lady Oscar" (The Rose of Versailles), are very much protected from befalling the same fate as Macross and Gatchaman because the parent company retains virtually all IP control, so as far as I know, TMS only allow minor changes as necessities for localization. The other examples you cited I cannot speak for with the same confidence, but from what I have seen are basically along the same lines.

Edited by Renato, 22 February 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[Cobra__]

"Uchuu" can be translated as both "space" and "universe", "seiki" literally does mean "century" (as in Chou jikuu seiki Orguss -- Super Dimension Century Orguss); "era", on the other hand, would be "jidai". Thus, I would say Universal Century is accurate enough, and by no means "wrong".

Yes the term uchuu has different meanings but in the context of the show "space" is the correct choice because the term uchuu seiki refers to a calendar system. And if you think about how the japanese specify the years you will see that in the context of the show Space Era is actually the more correct term.
Its the same problem that arises when the zeon characters speak of the white base. They use the term mokuba. It has different meanings but in the english version of Gundam it was translated to trojan horse whereas in the Italian version it was translated to wooden horse (rocking horse). And rocking horse is more accurate, just look at the shape of the white base. The shape doesn't evoke the greek horse of mythology but it evokes a much more realistic rocking horse.

As for your other examples, I still think that the translation in European and Latin American broadcasts are much closer to the source material than adaptations tailored for the US market. In particular Tokyo Movie Shinsha productions, of which you mention "Lady Oscar" (The Rose of Versailles), are very much protected from befalling the same fate as Macross and Gatchaman because the parent company retains virtually all IP control, so as far as I know, TMS only allow minor changes as necessities for localization. The other examples you cited I cannot speak for with the same confidence, but from what I have seen are basically along the same lines.

You are correct insofar as the americans did more damage to the original source material than the italians or french. It was a matter of degree though. Very very few series had a correct adaption at the time, I can only recall Lady Oscar (but some things were changed with respect to the original japanese) and Space pirate Cobra (where the french dub is actually quite accurate except that the foul language was edited out). Of course in many cases the japanese just didn't care how foreign companies adapted their animes. So a little bit of blame has to go their way also. The original 1980 italian dub of Gundam is amazing. Amazing as in amazingly bad. If you put the two versions (japanese gundam and italian gundam) side by side they tell literally 2 different stories. That is how bad things were at the time.

[Renato]

Yes the term uchuu has different meanings but in the context of the show "space" is the correct choice because the term uchuu seiki refers to a calendar system. And if you think about how the japanese specify the years you will see that in the context of the show Space Era is actually the more correct term.

But the Japanese specify the years with the word "jidai", like I described, not the word "seiki". Which would mean that actually, whether you realize it or not, you are taking issue not with the translation, but with the original choice of terminology in the source material itself. At the end of the day, they do say "uchuu seiki", where they SHOULD be saying "uchuu jidai". Right?

Its the same problem that arises when the zeon characters speak of the white base. They use the term mokuba. It has different meanings but in the english version of Gundam it was translated to trojan horse whereas in the Italian version it was translated to wooden horse (rocking horse). And rocking horse is more accurate, just look at the shape of the white base. The shape doesn't evoke the greek horse of mythology but it evokes a much more realistic rocking horse.

Well, yeah, OK. I've never seen the show in anything other than Japanese, but I thought it was more evocative of the Trojan horse, simply because of the fact that there were people inside of it. I concede that its more of an interpretative thing, though I never thought of it as a rocking horse specifically...

[Gubaba]

so you are a troller in rtx.com? I got to ask

No. Mostly, I just try to be educational.

[Protoculture]

Seriously, for RT fans who ventured into this thread ..... did they expect MWers would welcome 'em with flowers peace crap thingies? Supposedly they should've been flayed & burned alive at the stakes ....

I mean, this thread & its various incarnations had successfully converted a many RT fans into Macross bosoms (Lyn Minmay, Misa Hayase, Myung Fang Lone, Sharon Apple, Shery Nome, Sara Nome, Millia Fallyna, Ishtar, Silvie Gena, Klan Klan .... Basara Nekki) ... with Yoshinol-induced acid trip.

Owh, enough rambling. This thread has gone too amusing. Never thought even a hardcore McKinniyist (thought that particular sect of RT fandom went extinct a long time ago) would come by to defend RT novelisation vs the animated material on MW, of all places.

Gimme some popcorn!

[Cobra__]

Seriously, for RT fans who ventured into this thread ..... did they expect MWers would welcome 'em with flowers peace crap thingies? Supposedly they should've been flayed & burned alive at the stakes ....

If you're not interested in Robotech ( or in bashing HG) then why do you post in this thread ?
Seriously as trolls go it seems MWers are second to none.

I mean, this thread & its various incarnations had successfully converted a many RT fans into Macross bosoms (Lyn Minmay, Misa Hayase, Myung Fang Lone, Sharon Apple, Shery Nome, Sara Nome, Millia Fallyna, Ishtar, Silvie Gena, Klan Klan .... Basara Nekki) ... with Yoshinol-induced acid trip.

I was a long time fan of Macross years before Robotech (anime or novels) was even on radar.

Owh, enough rambling. This thread has gone too amusing. Never thought even a hardcore McKinniyist (thought that particular sect of RT fandom went extinct a long time ago) would come by to defend RT novelisation vs the animated material on MW, of all places.
Gimme some popcorn!

I like the novels over the anime. Is that a crime ? It still is Robotech although another variant if you think about it.
In the end you don't need popcorn, you need to go back to that troll cavern you came out of.

Edited by Cobra__, 23 February 2012 - 02:42 AM.

[Dynaman]

Never thought even a hardcore McKinniyist (thought that particular sect of RT fandom went extinct a long time ago) would come by to defend RT novelisation vs the animated material on MW, of all places. Gimme some popcorn!

You have two of us. I consider the novels superior to the show for two reasons (one serious, one not).

1 - In my mind I can believe that the English Minmei can sing. The reality leaves something to be desired. (that was the amusing one).
2 - Although the novels follow the action on screen too closely they do get to change the dialog so it is not so stilted, most noticably in the Masters Saga portion.

The description of the BD Edwards (whatever his name ended up being...) "fleet" attacking the RDF in video game patterns - yeah that was pretty stupid...

What some say with derision I say with pride, I am a McKinniyist.

[Legioss]

I'm pretty sure Greg Snegoff retells stories Carl told him of his time in Japan making Sentinels and the Japanese staff who were impressed with Robotech were Kenji Yoshida and/or Ippei Kuri. I can't provide a source because I don't remember, but there it is. "The Japanese" are the people Carl told them about when he got back from Japan, Tatsunoko's owners.

edit: I just remembered. It was in Los Angeles, not Japan. In Comics Interview #23 page 22 (1985):

SHEL: Have any of the original Japanese writers or artists viewed your version and commented upon it?

CARL: Recently, Kenji Yoshida, one of the principal owners of Tatsunoko Studios and one of the producers for the three series that turned into ROBOTECH, was in Los Angeles, viewed what we were doing, and was amazed. For one thing, the Japanese do not have synch. Which means that they never have their actors speak in synch with the mouth movements of the animation.

SHEL: That doesn't bother them?

CARL: They don't care. They are more interested in telling the story. Immediately, Kenji Yoshida realized that the thing was in synch - he flipped that it was in synch. We have enhanced their sound-effects nearly 2000% - we have 20 times the sound effects that they have done.

I can make a scan later if you need it.

Edited by Legioss, 23 February 2012 - 04:37 AM.

[VF5SS]

I'm sure those guys were also happy about Battle of the Planets :v

[Zor Primus]

Addressing similarities between the two scripts, and there being almost exact dialogue in some places, are too close to make an argument that they didn't use the original script as reference. While I think Greg Snegoff is a good guy, it doesn't seem like he's totally forthcoming about that story. When he says that the scripts were horrible, I think he was talking about direct translation, and probably from a non-reputable source. It's completely ignorant, to assume that Carl, Greg, and the other writers wrote the entire thing with no reference material. It just didn't happen. There's too many direct similarities that one wouldn't necessarily come to figure out just by visually watching the Japanese version. If you think all those are just coincidences, then there's no point in arguing with delusional fans.

What strikes the whole thing odd, is that it's even an issue. They did use the Japanese script, who cares? Carl and Greg seem to inflate the story quite a bit there, but it's not making them any more credible, or talented as writers. And just because someone says that it's how the story goes, if you're going to believe that, over common sense, then there's really no point in arguing with someone who lives in fantasy land.

One thing this recent topic did was make me watch SDF:M again. Off the top of my head one line in particular that comes to mind is when Hikaru is asking Roy about Misa when he first arrives on board the Macross. In the original Hikaru says, "Who's the old lady?" in RT he says "Who's the old sourpuss?"

This is one of many I noticed last night through 13 episodes.

[Jasonc]

One thing this recent topic did was make me watch SDF:M again. Off the top of my head one line in particular that comes to mind is when Hikaru is asking Roy about Misa when he first arrives on board the Macross. In the original Hikaru says, "Who's the old lady?" in RT he says "Who's the old sourpuss?"

This is one of many I noticed last night through 13 episodes.

It's just stupid to assume that Carl and Greg wrote an
entire script without the Japanese version, then got it later,
only to redo it with corrections and similar references. Who would
Be so stupid, as to do double the work, especially knowing they
We're on a tight time and budget constraint? If you were going
to do a book report, would you write it before reading the book,
Then go back to read it, then make corrections after all that? It's
all ass backward, and makes absolutely no sense. Common sense
can go a long way.

Edited by Jasonc, 23 February 2012 - 02:22 PM.

[Darkwater]

It's just stupid to assume that Carl and Greg wrote an
entire script without the Japanese version, then got it later,
only to redo it with corrections and similar references.

I think more than likely, they followed Macross's script and deviated more and more when it came to Southern Cross and Moresopedia in order to to shoehorn it in as a continuation.

But also, let's think about it realistically. This was one project Greg Snegoff worked on starting 28 years ago and probably hasn't seen since. Obviously, his memory is going to be fuzzy. The guys who work on these shows don't act like fans and talk and analyze it for years afterwards. Most conspiracies that arise can usually be attributed to people who are overworked and underpaid, and just got something out the door in a tight deadline. I've worked in TV for 12 years and I can't believe the amount of conspiracy theories that pop up about hidden agendas people have. At the end of the day, we're just people doing a job wanting to go home and crack open a beer.

Edited by Darkwater, 23 February 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[VF5SS]

He comes across as rather flippant though. Maybe he needed a more neutral tone when answering questions about a job he did. He's a writer not a celebrity on Oprah.

[Zor Primus]

It's all ass backward, and makes absolutely no sense. Common sense
can go a long way.

Attached Files

•  deadpool.jpg   42.56K   17 downloads

[Jasonc]

QFT!!!

[Renato]

I'm pretty sure Greg Snegoff retells stories Carl told him of his time in Japan making Sentinels and the Japanese staff who were impressed with Robotech were Kenji Yoshida and/or Ippei Kuri. I can't provide a source because I don't remember, but there it is. "The Japanese" are the people Carl told them about when he got back from Japan, Tatsunoko's owners.

edit: I just remembered. It was in Los Angeles, not Japan. In Comics Interview #23 page 22 (1985):

SHEL: Have any of the original Japanese writers or artists viewed your version and commented upon it?

CARL: Recently, Kenji Yoshida, one of the principal owners of Tatsunoko Studios and one of the producers for the three series that turned into ROBOTECH, was in Los Angeles, viewed what we were doing, and was amazed. For one thing, the Japanese do not have synch. Which means that they never have their actors speak in synch with the mouth movements of the animation.

SHEL: That doesn't bother them?

CARL: They don't care. They are more interested in telling the story. Immediately, Kenji Yoshida realized that the thing was in synch - he flipped that it was in synch. We have enhanced their sound-effects nearly 2000% - we have 20 times the sound effects that they have done.

I can make a scan later if you need it.

Thank you for the reference, really appreciate it.

Although, this is a whole other debate. We are discussing whether or not it is plausible that Carl et al sat down and watched Macross etc. muted and could manage to guess the dialogue to an astonishingly accurate degree. It was suggested that not only is that what happened, but that Carl's version of the script ended up being an improvement and was lauded by the Japanese producers. Now, talking about synching and sound effects is another matter entirely, and actually says nothing about the dialogue which is the main issue here. We need to tackle one problem at a time.

[Protoculture]

If you're not interested in Robotech ( or in bashing HG) then why do you post in this thread ?
Seriously as trolls go it seems MWers are second to none.

For somebody who is new to MW, accusing other longtime MWer as a troll speaks volumes, ain't it?

I was a long time fan of Macross years before Robotech (anime or novels) was even on radar.

I was too. In fact I was a long time fan of SDFM in mid 1980s, an RT fan in 1990s & avid collector of RT novelizations & admittedly was a staunch McKinniyist before turning into a Purist a long time ago.

Now I'm more of Macross fan, with fond nostalgic memories of RT. Should we really comparing credentials here?

I like the novels over the anime. Is that a crime ? It still is Robotech although another variant if you think about it.
In the end you don't need popcorn, you need to go back to that troll cavern you came out of.

Like it all you want, but McKinniyist breed died a long time ago, I was one of McKinniyists crowd engaged in various debates & flame wars that raged in late 1990s & early 2000s .... but we lose that war when HG choose the Purist route. When novelisation got the shove as secondary material in Yune's RT-verse, sanctioned by HG, the novels just became a nostalgic piece of RT history. No more, no less.

You said you prefer the novelisation, but most of the elements like thinking caps, the Shapings, and God forbid .. the Sentinels / End of The Circle simply not supported by the animation. Not to say even the old novel timeline is non-canon thanks to reboot timeline in canonical Yune's RT-verse sanctioned by HG.

As for popcorn thingies, now this thread survived as a constant amusement to MWers. Most of the old RT vs Macross legal wranglings had been talked to death. Then it became the sob stories for RT fans who find themselves booted from RT.com. Then the usual RT & Yune bashing. Ohhh, yes, most also come here to get news firsthand regarding RT instead of RT.com.

You want to share what is so great in appreciating RT novelisation, then RT.com or RTX.com is the place to be .... not MW. Especially this thread. Here MWers tend have annual RT witch hunting open season. A couple of years back, surviving RT fans that ever stumble to this thread and survived the lynching & public executions would consider it is as their baptism of fire .... but before long, they would swore allegiance to Macross after realising the RT cake has gone stale for far too long.

[VF5SS]

I think you're being too over-dramatic about witch hunting. Considering how many smartass blogger and other people like dumping on all of Macross and its fans while simultaneously spreading disinformation about both, I think there's going to be some tension regardless of how innocent someone tries to play it.

[Protoculture]

I think you're being too over-dramatic about witch hunting ......

Owww ... do you need to burst that bubble ......

[mrhillz]

Owww ... do you need to burst that bubble ......

Seriously though, witch hunting? When did this happen? I've only been posting here for two years, and never heard anything about something like that.

[Einherjar]

The Kool-Aid people have been drinking is a hell of a drug.

[Cobra__]

For somebody who is new to MW, accusing other longtime MWer as a troll speaks volumes, ain't it?

Touche'
although to be honest this thread doesn't stand as a testament to peace and understanding between the 2 communities.

I was too. In fact I was a long time fan of SDFM in mid 1980s, an RT fan in 1990s & avid collector of RT novelizations & admittedly was a staunch McKinniyist before turning into a Purist a long time ago.
Now I'm more of Macross fan, with fond nostalgic memories of RT. Should we really comparing credentials here?

I've never understood this desire to protect something to the bitter end.
I like Macross and I like the novelizations of Robotech.
I know they are 2 different things and yet enjoyment of one doesn't detract from enjoyment of the other.
If this makes me into some kind of macross non purist fan then I don't give a damn.

Like it all you want, but McKinniyist breed died a long time ago, I was one of McKinniyists crowd engaged in various debates & flame wars that raged in late 1990s & early 2000s .... but we lose that war when HG choose the Purist route. When novelisation got the shove as secondary material in Yune's RT-verse, sanctioned by HG, the novels just became a nostalgic piece of RT history. No more, no less.

I was not involved in any kind of flame wars during the late 1990s and early 2000s. In fact my motto was live and let live.
Now this doesn't mean I was happy when HG decided to throw away all the different continuities to rally behind what is for all pratical purposes a Mospead II vision of Robotech.

You said you prefer the novelisation, but most of the elements like thinking caps, the Shapings, and God forbid .. the Sentinels / End of The Circle simply not supported by the animation. Not to say even the old novel timeline is non-canon thanks to reboot timeline in canonical Yune's RT-verse sanctioned by HG.

For me the animation was always an evolutionary dead end. Robotech the animation by the way it was put together would always always be shackled by Macross, Southern Cross and Mospeada. That's the reason why I gravitated towards the novels. At least they managed while maintaining a certain closeness to the Robotech material to introduce a number of novelties that enhanced and brought an epic side to the story that was lacking in the animated version. Do I care that Robotech the novel is different from Robotech the anime ? Not in the least, it was in my opinion one of its strong points.
Now we can debate wether the ending is good or bad. It was anticlimatic I'll grant you that. But as far as endings go it was not half bad. You just can't resolve in a satisfactory manner an 18 volume novel. The only other option was to leave the novels open ended, and frankly speaking even a lazy ending is better than no ending at all.

As for popcorn thingies, now this thread survived as a constant amusement to MWers. Most of the old RT vs Macross legal wranglings had been talked to death. Then it became the sob stories for RT fans who find themselves booted from RT.com. Then the usual RT & Yune bashing. Ohhh, yes, most also come here to get news firsthand regarding RT instead of RT.com.

You want to share what is so great in appreciating RT novelisation, then RT.com or RTX.com is the place to be .... not MW. Especially this thread. Here MWers tend have annual RT witch hunting open season. A couple of years back, surviving RT fans that ever stumble to this thread and survived the lynching & public executions would consider it is as their baptism of fire .... but before long, they would swore allegiance to Macross after realising the RT cake has gone stale for far too long.

Witch hunting ? Ha ha ha you know the only people that suffer are those that are fans of Robotech but secretly hate it. And when publicly shamed will repent themselves and become Macross purists. Poor souls that they are. I'm a Macross fan and a Robotech fan and I don't give a damn about converting exclusively to one faith/sect to the detriment of the other. Now open fire.

Edited by Cobra__, 23 February 2012 - 10:13 PM.

[VF-15 Banshee]

I mean, this thread & its various incarnations had successfully converted a many RT fans into Macross bosoms (Lyn Minmay, Misa Hayase, Myung Fang Lone, Sharon Apple, Shery Nome, Sara Nome, Millia Fallyna, Ishtar, Silvie Gena, Klan Klan .... Basara Nekki) ... with Yoshinol-induced acid trip.

I'd rather not be welcomed into Basara or Myung's bosoms, just FYI.

[Zor Primus]

I'd rather not be welcomed into Basara or Myung's bosoms, just FYI.

Agreed...but Sheryl Nome's? SIGN ME UP!

Regarding the Sentinels novels, I always found it funny how the RT staff did their best to squash the entire series from being canon to basically retelling a cliff note version of it in the Prelude comics. They couldn't even make up something new to replace something that was already done for them.