97 replies to this topic

[UN Spacy]

Thanks to kresphy for the info.

Coming October 20th, 2011.

[Gian]

Another demo? I'd kill for a full game, or a port from triangle/ultimate frontier from the psp with hd graphics

Edited by Gian, 19 July 2011 - 08:18 PM.

[Oihan]

Another demo? I'd kill for a full game, or a port from triangle/ultimate frontier from the psp with hd graphics

It's better than nothing I say!

[Keith]

Do we know for sure it's just going to be a demo? There has been a full year since the last game, and untlike Trial, the title doesn't have the implication of demo in it.

[Renato]

I hope it has more than just the Frontier valks in it. Although being able to control the YF29 is a given.

[UN Spacy]

New Famitsu coverage (spoilers ahead).

http://www.famitsu.c...7/21047084.html

[Keith]

While I'm excited to see the YF-29 in there, I'm still getting the impression that this is a demo. "BUT", hopefully we are still clsoe to seeing a PS3/PSV full game not long after.

[Graham]

Still holding out hopes for a full PSV game later.

Don't really want to buy a PS3 unless I really have to

Graham

[Jasonc]

Please oh please oh please be a full game, or at least give a hint of when it will be out as a full game.

[Uxi]

Please oh please oh please be a full game, or at least give a hint of when it will be out as a full game.

Indeed. I still really enjoy Trial Frontier, especially for the half off I was able to get the first BD/hybrid for. But I soooo want to play the Mac 7 valks on my big screen in 7.1.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

It'd be nice to get a full PS3 game.

[Keith]

KOENIG MONSTER!!

[Keith]

Ok, now that I've watched the trailer a couple times, I feel comfortable talking about some things I suspected from the initial pictures.

-Real time level concert ofotage window: NICE, as seen in a stage replicating the last concert/battle from Itsuwari no Utahime, synched up animation goes along with the actual battle.
-Large scale battleships are now in levels, we can see Battle 25, we can see several Vajra ships, and we should be able to assume that we can zoom in/land on them like in the PSP game.
-Ground combat levels have also been added, as we can see a full cityscape in one stage.
-Custom paint schemes also seem to have carried over.

What does all of this tell us? The PS3 version of the game engine has all of its basic mechanics down, now we just need to wait until they build us a full game around it.

Edited by Keith, 02 August 2011 - 09:26 PM.

[Alexander Del Sua]

(I'm new)

Wishful thinking, but it would be cool to have some co-op if they were to make a full game. Maybe even flight v. flight or squadron v. squadron multiplayer? One thing is for sure though, I'll be spending some time going over custom paint schemes. :3

[mojacko]

is this gonna be limited o ps3 only??? sucks ive got an xbox 360....

[UN Spacy]

is this gonna be limited o ps3 only??? sucks ive got an xbox 360....

Sucks to be you.

[Uxi]

is this gonna be limited o ps3 only??? sucks ive got an xbox 360....

Time to get a PS3!

[UN Spacy]

Game trailer starts at 2:04.

[Keith]

Finally, some gameplay footage, this is the 3rd stage. And finally we know why a full console game will take a while, they're making the effort to synch up actual animation scenes with the stages...BRILLIANT!! I can't wait to play DYRL & 7 stages like this, simply beautiful.

[Major Focker]

this gave me goosebumps! can't wait for mine to arrive

[hyp36rmax]

God... this is awesome, i shall pick this up,

[Graham]

Finally, some gameplay footage, this is the 3rd stage. And finally we know why a full console game will take a while, they're making the effort to synch up actual animation scenes with the stages...BRILLIANT!! I can't wait to play DYRL & 7 stages like this, simply beautiful.

Bit disappointed that the player doesn't use the Tornado pack's twin beam cannons in the video. I would have liked to see them. I use them all the time in MTF, when using the Tornado Pack.

Graham

[Keith]

Bit disappointed that the player doesn't use the Tornado pack's twin beam cannons in the video. I would have liked to see them. I use them all the time in MTF, when using the Tornado Pack.

Graham

The Tornado pack cannons and the YF-29 counterparts are beautiful, I can't imagine that there isn't some game shop in Hong Kong that doesn't have a demo setup. It'd be a shame for you to miss out on at least trying this version.

Also, the guy in that video has no idea how to play the game, poor fool not using Gerwalk to avoid crashing into the ground, and jumping head first into every enemy SP attack

Edited by Keith, 22 October 2011 - 12:25 AM.

[Vepariga]

Do Want.

[Graham]

It's a promising sign that Namco-Bandai and Artdink are signed up as PSVita game developers.

http://i.joystiq.com...ita-developers/

Graham

[Keith]

This is nothing but conjecture, but a full game would hapen mid next year at the earlist and could look quite different to Last Frontier. This is because both Trial Frontier and Last Frontier arent so much demo games as they are place holders - basically uprezed PSP games. This is because the original PSP games were based on the Gundam VS engine - this doesnt exist on the PS3 yet and Macross fandom unfortunately isnt big enough or mainstream enough to warrant the costs of developing it from scratch. With Gundam Extreme VS coming out this December though, I figure it wont be long until it gets tweaked and reused for a true HD Macross game, possibly for the 30th Anniversary. Like I said, all purely conjecture on my part, but it makes sense to me at least, lol.

You guys need to stop convoluting things. The Vs engine:

-Federation Vs Zeon
-Gundam Vs Zeta
-Alliance Vs Zaft
-Alliance Vs Zaft II
-Gundam Vs Gundam,
-Gundam Vs Gundam Next
-Gundam Vs Gundam Next Plus
&
-Gundam Extreme Vs (current)

is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT engine from the PSP Battle series. '
-Gunam Battle Tactics
-Gundam Battle Royal
-Gundam Battle Chronicle
-Gundam Battle Universe
-Gundam Assault Survive

And the Macross engine spawned from Battle Universe
-Macross Ace Frontier
-Macross Ultimate Frontier
--Macross Trial Frontier
-Macross Triangle Frontier
--Macross Last Frontier (Current).

No doubt Battle Tactics was inspired by the original Federation Vs Zeon's home version campaign mode, but it's an entirely different play engine that spawned all later PSP Gundam Battle Games & Ace Frontier, with subsequent Macross games using a very much customized "Macross-centric' engine. To put it bluntly, to call Last (or even Trial) Frontier simply "upsized PSP games" is to completely ignore all the love that went the all new HD renders for the Valkyries, Vajra & capitol ships. These are far from the PSP models, which while great for that hardware, don't have a quarter of the detail that's in the PS3 versions. You also imply that the Vs engine is superior, which is debatlable as far as Gundam is concerned, but flat out wrong in regards to a Macross game. The Vs engine excells at one thing, high speed arcadey matches. The Battle/Macross Engine has full misson based levels, in depth weapon selection (you're stuck with your standard loadouts in VS) and upgradability, you fight targets as small as gun turrets and as large as the captiol ships they're attatched too, etc. Vs as of current (haven't played Extreme yet) still has cramped single stages that focus more of simple shoot & dodge mechanics than anything else. While the addition of charged attacks has been nice in the Vs games (Gundam X's satellite cannon for exmaple), melee is still trash, and mobile armor/transformable suits are still based on dash meter hogging dash moves rather than true transformations (like in the Battle/Macross games).

My point is, Macross wouldn't work with the VS engine, missiles would have to be simplified to crap like in the first VFX or Robotech Battlecry (a simple burst of missiles with each button tap), and transformations would be locked into battroid except for when you double tap dash. Fighter would be fairly useless with that engine, and I don't see how they'd pull off the necessit for Gerwalk. While the original Battle Tactics was an archaic slight improvement on the old mission based Fed vs Zeon campaign mode, it's evolved into very deep show re-enacting scenario missions. As of current, the Vs games still have a tiny roster, while the last several Gundam Battle games have still had a couple hundred plus Mobile Suits, and the PSP Macross games have been prety comprehensive as well in regards to pilot & mecha choices.

Basically, smaller stages, stock pilot/mecha choices, crap melee attacks, and twitch gameplay = Vs
Deeper missions, bigger stages, bigger variety in enemy type and variety, awesome weapon selection and usage (ITANO FREAKIN' CIRCUS), SP attacks, suppeort characters, smart-ish A.I. wingmen, custom soundtracks, fast packs/armor, etc, Macross/Battle/Assault engine.

Again, actually take a look at last frontier, while it does slow down a bit (still a demo build afterall, all the fine detail in vernier control, wing lights, missile ports opening & launching, fast pack usage and ejections level detail, and the freakin' flak coming off of those Vajra ships. Hell, even the launch scenes which have custom animation depending on whether you're in the atmosphere & space are beautiful. You guys are acting like this is Another Century Episode with its shite old school clunky control scheme. Don't get me wrong here, I do enjoy the Vs gamees, but if you think about it seriously, that won't work for Macross at all. And nothing I've seen of Extreme so far makes me think it's prettier than Tiral & Last Frontier.

[Keith]

It's a promising sign that Namco Bandai and Artink are signed up as PSVita game developers.

http://i.joystiq.com...ita-developers/

Graham

I am all over a Macross PS3/Vita hybrid pack the second it's announced. May have to wait a bit for the Vita itself, but that game will be mine!

[Graham]

I am all over a Macross PS3/Vita hybrid pack the second it's announced. May have to wait a bit for the Vita itself, but that game will be mine!

I don't think the Vita will be able to run PS3 games.

This quote from Wikipedia made me laugh:

"Sony has told publishers that the device would be "as powerful as the PlayStation 3". Sony later denied this, with the SCEA platform research manager stating "Well, it's not going to run at 2 GHz because the battery would last five minutes and it would probably set fire to your pants".



^Graham

[Murphy]

How would one get a imported game on the Vita? correct me if i'm wrong isn't the vita using digital download only(like the PSPGO)? I would hate to jump through hoops just to get a macross game on the vita rather than just importing a physical copy.

[Tochiro]

You guys need to stop convoluting things. The Vs engine:

-Federation Vs Zeon
-Gundam Vs Zeta
-Alliance Vs Zaft
-Alliance Vs Zaft II
-Gundam Vs Gundam,
-Gundam Vs Gundam Next
-Gundam Vs Gundam Next Plus
&
-Gundam Extreme Vs (current)

is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT engine from the PSP Battle series. '
-Gunam Battle Tactics
-Gundam Battle Royal
-Gundam Battle Chronicle
-Gundam Battle Universe
-Gundam Assault Survive

And the Macross engine spawned from Battle Universe
-Macross Ace Frontier
-Macross Ultimate Frontier
--Macross Trial Frontier
-Macross Triangle Frontier
--Macross Last Frontier (Current).

No doubt Battle Tactics was inspired by the original Federation Vs Zeon's home version campaign mode, but it's an entirely different play engine that spawned all later PSP Gundam Battle Games & Ace Frontier, with subsequent Macross games using a very much customized "Macross-centric' engine. To put it bluntly, to call Last (or even Trial) Frontier simply "upsized PSP games" is to completely ignore all the love that went the all new HD renders for the Valkyries, Vajra & capitol ships. These are far from the PSP models, which while great for that hardware, don't have a quarter of the detail that's in the PS3 versions. You also imply that the Vs engine is superior, which is debatlable as far as Gundam is concerned, but flat out wrong in regards to a Macross game. The Vs engine excells at one thing, high speed arcadey matches. The Battle/Macross Engine has full misson based levels, in depth weapon selection (you're stuck with your standard loadouts in VS) and upgradability, you fight targets as small as gun turrets and as large as the captiol ships they're attatched too, etc. Vs as of current (haven't played Extreme yet) still has cramped single stages that focus more of simple shoot & dodge mechanics than anything else. While the addition of charged attacks has been nice in the Vs games (Gundam X's satellite cannon for exmaple), melee is still trash, and mobile armor/transformable suits are still based on dash meter hogging dash moves rather than true transformations (like in the Battle/Macross games).

My point is, Macross wouldn't work with the VS engine, missiles would have to be simplified to crap like in the first VFX or Robotech Battlecry (a simple burst of missiles with each button tap), and transformations would be locked into battroid except for when you double tap dash. Fighter would be fairly useless with that engine, and I don't see how they'd pull off the necessit for Gerwalk. While the original Battle Tactics was an archaic slight improvement on the old mission based Fed vs Zeon campaign mode, it's evolved into very deep show re-enacting scenario missions. As of current, the Vs games still have a tiny roster, while the last several Gundam Battle games have still had a couple hundred plus Mobile Suits, and the PSP Macross games have been prety comprehensive as well in regards to pilot & mecha choices.

Basically, smaller stages, stock pilot/mecha choices, crap melee attacks, and twitch gameplay = Vs
Deeper missions, bigger stages, bigger variety in enemy type and variety, awesome weapon selection and usage (ITANO FREAKIN' CIRCUS), SP attacks, suppeort characters, smart-ish A.I. wingmen, custom soundtracks, fast packs/armor, etc, Macross/Battle/Assault engine.

Again, actually take a look at last frontier, while it does slow down a bit (still a demo build afterall, all the fine detail in vernier control, wing lights, missile ports opening & launching, fast pack usage and ejections level detail, and the freakin' flak coming off of those Vajra ships. Hell, even the launch scenes which have custom animation depending on whether you're in the atmosphere & space are beautiful. You guys are acting like this is Another Century Episode with its shite old school clunky control scheme. Don't get me wrong here, I do enjoy the Vs gamees, but if you think about it seriously, that won't work for Macross at all. And nothing I've seen of Extreme so far makes me think it's prettier than Tiral & Last Frontier.

Alright, obviously you are a big fan of these games Keith and I'll admit I oversimplified things in my last post. My apologies (although Renato stopped playing recent games when his arthritis kicked in around the end of the SNES era - he hasn't played a game released this generation afaik ;-)

But lets take a step back here for a moment so I can address several of the points I made from a different angle.

First, lets look at the engines between the battle series and the VS series. Are these different series? Most certainly. Are (at the very least) elements of their engines the same? Absolutely. Granted, I'm talking at a very base level here. But look at, on the PSP versions (VS arcade ver. being diff) the way the geometry goes together, the way the lighting works, even the way the mech models interact with the environment geometry - theres a lot of basic stuff shared between the series. Naturally this has been iterated on to the point where both series are very distinct. The VS series prioritizes collision detection, framerate, hit detection and attack priorities because the game gets tournament level play. But if Bamco wanted to take a level, increase the stage size, skybox size and change the framerate to account for more enemies on screen at once to make it more like the Battle series, this isn't something that would be difficult to do.

But look, its obvious you are very knowledgeable on both series, more than I am thats for sure. But this is all besides the point - the point I was trying to make, that is.

1)Last Frontier. Yes, the textures are all HD, the Valk models are highly detailed and completely new and the lighting effects couldn't be done on lesser hardware. But look at the building/environment models, the way the Valk models interact with these (i.e., the horrendous clipping) and its very obvious that the underlying code being used is from the PSP games. Look at how the battle areas are still large arenas and, most tellingly, how there is loading time after the launch sequence. Neither of these are necessary. Both arose from the restrictions imposed by the PSP hardware and wouldn't be present (areas would be bigger, and there wouldn't be ANY loading time after the launch sequence) if the games code was made and optimized for the PS3 hardware from the ground up. It hasn't been. Given the nature of the product though, this is understandable from a business standpoint which brings me to the real point that I was trying to make:

2)Last Frontier is, imo, a test run for what a HD Macross game COULD be. It is not, however, the engine that this totally hypothetical game would run on. Why? From a development standpoint making a HD Macross game 100% from the ground up would not be financially viable for Bamco.
Even with the current Frontier boom, Macross is too niche a series to warrant a HD game built in HD from the ground up. Much like the PSP games, it would need to be layered on top of something else to be a viable proposition. Whether thats the Battle engine or the VS one is really besides the point.
But at this point in time, given that of the two series only the VS one has been announced for the PS3 and, given the timeframe that a Macross game would ideally (from Bamcos standpoint) need to come out in to maximize potential revenue, in addition to the fact that the PS3's horsepower would allow the VS engine to be more flexible and hence support quicker reiteration of gameplay elements and asset use, and all signs point to this December's VS Extreme being used as the building blocks for future Macross and Gundam games alike.
Again, this is completely my opinion and nothing more. But seeing how Japanese developers struggle with the costs of making HD games as I do on a daily basis, its pretty unrealistic to expect that a completely separate and different Macross game would be made without these engine dependencies.

As such, imo Last Frontier is more of a placeholder than a beta or demo. And personally I think this is a good thing because I'd love to see the gameplay taken in a different direction - one that doesn't use any of the old PSP limitations as a crutch.

BTW (1) - having being playing Extreme VS at the arcades for the last year, it looks heads and shoulders better that Last Frontier and I expect the PS3 version to look even better. Once again, I'm not knocking Last Frontier here but the difference between the two is night and day imo.

BTW(2) - Yeah a Macross game on the Vita would be sweet. Lined up in the rain in Akihabara to preorder my unit. only 7 weeks or so left to wait!

Edited by Tochiro, 24 October 2011 - 03:26 AM.

[reeoyuy]

For one thing, I don't understand what Keith means with VS series have crap melee. I'm not that hardcore enough to explore all the melee combos but my impression is that VS series is basically 2 vs 2 fighting game. I like using Exia and Shining Gundam in GVGN + and they play well. I don't like how melee in Battle series is basically standard slash combo with minimal difference between units.
And that's why the basic concept of VS series won't work for Macross. I personally prefer VS series than Battle series for fluid and varied animation between units (I dropped Assault Survive as soon as I saw Exia walk instead of floating ) but the concept won't work without heavy modification to the engine.

Edited by reeoyuy, 24 October 2011 - 03:41 AM.

[maximilian_jenius]

last frontier is only a Macross Frontier game or you could use the classic VF... I mean, is only a Macross Frontier Stage Game or is like MUF or MTF when you could pass from zero to frontier.

thanks!

[Raptor One]

How would one get a imported game on the Vita? correct me if i'm wrong isn't the vita using digital download only(like the PSPGO)? I would hate to jump through hoops just to get a macross game on the vita rather than just importing a physical copy.

The retail Vita games will be released as physical copies and downloadable. Instead of UMDs they come on small memory cards.

[Keith]

For one thing, I don't understand what Keith means with VS series have crap melee. I'm not that hardcore enough to explore all the melee combos but my impression is that VS series is basically 2 vs 2 fighting game. I like using Exia and Shining Gundam in GVGN + and they play well. I don't like how melee in Battle series is basically standard slash combo with minimal difference between units.
And that's why the basic concept of VS series won't work for Macross. I personally prefer VS series than Battle series for fluid and varied animation between units (I dropped Assault Survive as soon as I saw Exia walk instead of floating ) but the concept won't work without heavy modification to the engine.

I'm talking about the actual execution of melee attacks. You might as well paint a big target on yourself just about any time you go in for one. As for Assault survive, Exia can hover too, learn the controls

And Tochiro, we're going to have to disagree on this for now. I haven't played Extreme (won't be out until December), but I have played ever other Vs game. No doubt the models & backgrounds were prettier in the PSP versions of Next & Next Plus, but ground detail & debatable. Take a look at any of the captiol ships in Last, and Sheryl's ship from the the Obelisk concert scene. No doubt the engine sitll needs some polish, but from what's there so far, there's no reason to think that they aren't working on adding HD graphics to the existing framework. So far, they're succeeding. I just don't see the benefit of trying to pin this game into Extreme's engine, the gameplay limitations would far outweigh any graphics benefit.

Back to the game itself though, I've S ranked all blue & red missions (SS only 3 or so out of all) (12 in all for each color counting the two enemy missions). Still haven't unlocked the white YF-29 or the Sheryl/Ranka Koenig Monster for red mision use (just the one with the SMS insignia on it), but I've got good news for you. It definately looks like artdink has been listening to the fans, Ultimate Mode is back, and insanely fierce. Even grunts go into SP mode, and I'll be damned if I can clear the second mission so far (using Ozma's YF-29). I still need about 5 trophies, so chances are most of those will be dependant on clearing ultimate mode.

[xTIMMYxCOREx]

Does the demo work on a US PS3? I am assuming it does.