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#71 anime52k8

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:22 PM

The VF-4, however, doesn't have any apparent subtypes,

the VF-4 has at least 6 subtypes:

  • VF-4A (original production version)
  • VF-4B (2 seat variant)
  • VF-4C (variant with improved atmospheric performance)
  • VF-4D (dedicated atmospheric interceptor/attack craft)
  • VF-4S (Marine spec)
  • VF-4G (upgraded model deployed into the late 2040's)

and the VF-11 only has the B and the C (super/armor packs notwithstanding)which effectively is nothing but a palette swap.


The VF-11 also has the A/D and MAXL variants
Also, Along with the VF-4 and VF-11; the VF-9, VF-14, VF-3000 and VF-5000 all lack known S (command) variants. It's possible that there are S varients of these fighters that haven't been described yet, or it could be that the the Use of special command varients fell out of favor until the mid 2030's when they start showing up again on limited production valks like the VF-17, VF-19 and VF-22.

#72 Talos

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:45 PM

From a production standpoint, I should mention that they're all hero mecha and piloted by named characters.

VF-0S Zero hero mecha (Roy)
VF-1S, TV and DYRL hero mecha (Roy, Max, and Hikaru)
VF-17S M7 hero mecha (Gamlin and Milia)
VF-19S M7 hero mecha (Docker)
VF-22S M7 hero mecha (Max, Milia, and Gamlin)
VF-25S Frontier hero mecha (Ozma)


The only exceptions to that are the VF-4, probably due to limited screentime, and the YF-19, due to it being a prototype. Of course the VF-19P and custom, but those are odd cases too.

No planes not flown by any named characters got an S-type.

EDIT: Added VF-0

Edited by Talos, 13 February 2011 - 05:07 PM.


#73 David Hingtgen

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:53 PM

You forgot Roy's VF-0S. :)



#74 Talos

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 05:07 PM

You forgot Roy's VF-0S. :)


Did not! :P (Thanks)

#75 sketchley

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:32 PM

From a production standpoint, I should mention that they're all hero mecha and piloted by named characters.
(...)
No planes not flown by any named characters got an S-type.


This is a good point.

I'd also recommend waiting until there's a Variable Fighter Master File produced for the VF-4, 11, etc. before making any definitive statements. I have no doubt that command specification versions exist, as well as a whole host of other varations, but due to time/space/story limitations, we haven't been shown them.

Heck, we still haven't been shown the designs of the VF-5, VF-16, etc..

#76 NastyNate

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:42 AM

Why don't we ever see much of Max's other kids besides Miline and the one from the M7 movie?

Edited by NastyNate, 14 February 2011 - 10:44 AM.


#77 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:02 AM

Why don't we ever see much of Max's other kids besides Miline and the one from the M7 movie?

Dunno... though if Milia's behavior in Macross 7 is anything to go by, she's probably already married off her other daughters and Mylene and Emilia slipped through the cracks. I'd be surprised if every member of Max and Milia's family's led the kind of exciting life that would throw them onto center stage in a Macross show. Maybe they just lead peaceful, giant robot-free lives on Earth or a colonized planet somewhere in the galaxy.

On that note, their eldest daughter Komilia did get a starring role in one of the canon video games that belongs to the Macross II: Lovers Again parallel world continuity. She's the main (player) character in Macross 2036, and she also briefly appears in Macross: Eternal Love Song. Due to events playing out somewhat differently in DYRL, Komilia's date of birth in Macross II's timeline lands in 2019, making her 17 for her debut as a main character in Macross 2036. Here's her character design from the game (design by Haruhiko Mikimoto):

Attached File  Komilia.jpg   29.36KB   32 downloads

Edited by Seto Kaiba, 14 February 2011 - 11:08 AM.


#78 Talos

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 12:03 PM

Dunno... though if Milia's behavior in Macross 7 is anything to go by, she's probably already married off her other daughters and Mylene and Emilia slipped through the cracks. I'd be surprised if every member of Max and Milia's family's led the kind of exciting life that would throw them onto center stage in a Macross show. Maybe they just lead peaceful, giant robot-free lives on Earth or a colonized planet somewhere in the galaxy.

On that note, their eldest daughter Komilia did get a starring role in one of the canon video games that belongs to the Macross II: Lovers Again parallel world continuity. She's the main (player) character in Macross 2036, and she also briefly appears in Macross: Eternal Love Song. Due to events playing out somewhat differently in DYRL, Komilia's date of birth in Macross II's timeline lands in 2019, making her 17 for her debut as a main character in Macross 2036. Here's her character design from the game (design by Haruhiko Mikimoto):


Don't forget we also see Komilia in the original series, where she got to experience being a human football. She also got an episode names after her (Viva Maria).

Besides her, though, Emilia and Mylene are the only ones we've seen animated. There is a family portrait from when Mylene was a baby that remains the only time we see any of the other girls. A younger Emilia and Komilia are in it as well. The only one not in it is their adopted daughter, Moaramia.

#79 biggooftoybox

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 04:39 PM

There might be, in select cities (well, maybe not a museum).

Where are you planning to go to, exactly? Japan's a big country, and without specifics, it's hard to answer specifically.


I'm planning to just go to Tokyo this time around. I only have 1 week of vacation. Any information on where to visit would be much appreciated.

Thanks

#80 Sir Galahad®

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 10:41 AM

Question... I noticed that battle frontier doesn't use the 4 barrels on it's main gun but rather the one below it... do those 4 barrels have been used? I think I saw Macross Galaxy fire using it but not battle frontier....

#81 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 10:50 AM

Question... I noticed that battle frontier doesn't use the 4 barrels on it's main gun but rather the one below it... do those 4 barrels have been used? I think I saw Macross Galaxy fire using it but not battle frontier....

Excellent question... we don't really have an answer.

#82 frothymug

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 04:51 PM

I am pretty sure that those barrels are for the gun's gatling mode. If you'll notice, Quarter's buster cannon is used in a gatling mode when it's not charging for a big blast.

#83 Sir Galahad®

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 08:37 PM

I am pretty sure that those barrels are for the gun's gatling mode. If you'll notice, Quarter's buster cannon is used in a gatling mode when it's not charging for a big blast.


Well other than that feature, the Main gun looks similar to Galaxy's and even 7's Main Gun... We already know how Battle 7 fires it's main gun...

#84 Zinjo

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:42 AM

Question... I noticed that battle frontier doesn't use the 4 barrels on it's main gun but rather the one below it... do those 4 barrels have been used? I think I saw Macross Galaxy fire using it but not battle frontier....

Actually I believe it does fire all four barrels when firing the gunship, the "gun" below it appears to be some sort of priming charge.

Frontier is the first time we see it. Mac7 didn't bother with that much detail when firing the gunship.

I wonder if the idea is that the primer charge is a way of quickly igniting the SD cannon unlike how the Macross cannon had to build itself up to critical mass before the same blast would occur?

#85 Sir Galahad®

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 09:11 AM

Actually I believe it does fire all four barrels when firing the gunship, the "gun" below it appears to be some sort of priming charge.

Frontier is the first time we see it. Mac7 didn't bother with that much detail when firing the gunship.

I wonder if the idea is that the primer charge is a way of quickly igniting the SD cannon unlike how the Macross cannon had to build itself up to critical mass before the same blast would occur?


Well here are the Differences.

Galaxy Firing Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIGoCbOSH_M

Frontier Firing Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7r25c8Ke1I

#86 Zinjo

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:14 PM

Well here are the Differences.

Galaxy Firing Gun
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIGoCbOSH_M"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uIGoCbOSH_M[/url]

Frontier Firing Gun
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7r25c8Ke1I"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=j7r25c8Ke1I[/url]

Yes and no.

The Galaxy shot was from a greater distance than the close up of the Frontier gunship. There is no definitive way to tell from the available footage if the Galaxy's gunship uses the same primer.

There have been a few sequences during the series that showed the Frontier gunship firing and as I said, the glowing pre-shot or primer always preceded the main cannon blast. Something M7 never had, but has now been included in Frontier.

Mikimoto is retconning the Macross cannon blast in MTF by showing what has always been the twin charging poles of the cannon to be (in his manga) separate gun barrels.

#87 Sdf Prime

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:46 PM

I have some questions. I was looking at the line art of the VF-1 from Macross 2036 and I understand that Macross 2036 takes place in the Macross II timeline.

How long was the VF-1 in service in the Macross II timeline? Just looking at the line art from 2036 the VF-1 just looks different. like the gunpod,head,and Fast Packs.

Is there a place with the alternate Macross II timeline? Chronicling the events between DYRL and Macross II?

Thanks in advance for the answers I will certainly appreciate them.

#88 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 05:23 PM

I have some questions. I was looking at the line art of the VF-1 from Macross 2036 and I understand that Macross 2036 takes place in the Macross II timeline.

Ah, yes... and that would make answering this a job for me. :D



How long was the VF-1 in service in the Macross II timeline? Just looking at the line art from 2036 the VF-1 just looks different. like the gunpod,head,and Fast Packs.

's a question that, unfortunately, doesn't have a precise answer. It's worth noting that the VF-1 Valkyrie has a somewhat different development history in Macross II's continuity than it does in the main timeline. The variant seen in the TV series with the rounder hands and traditional HUD simply never existed, and the DYRL version is the way it always was. There's also some interesting shenanigans regarding the existence of the VF-1D and a reason for why the VF-1J was the only one to equip armored packs that's since been parroted by Master File's VF-1 Vol.2. It's also worth noting that the VF-1 variants you saw art for from Macross 2036 aren't just variants of the VF-1, but rather a major upgrade/modernization of the VF-1 platform kinda like the main continuity's VF-1X.

Depending on whether you want to count the VF-1R/VF-1改 in with the original VF-1 or count it as a separate craft, the answer to your question's different. By all accounts, the VF-1R/VF-1改 entered service in the 2030s, and then presumably remained in service (along with a similarly-enhanced version of the VF-4 Siren) until the 2060s and the introduction of the VF-XX Zentradi Valkyrie.


Is there a place with the alternate Macross II timeline? Chronicling the events between DYRL and Macross II?

Yes and no... there's a "VF History" piece in B-Club magazine (Vol.79) that serves as an overview of the M2 parallel world continuity, and there was an inaccurate timeline sheet printed for Macross II in Chronicle, but I'm not really aware of any one source that completely chronicles the events between DYRL and Macross II in much detail. As you probably guessed, I've translated it myself, but my plans to get my Macross II site finished were derailed slightly by my day job and the influx of the new material in Chronicle and a few other rare sources I've since turned up.:D

#89 Sdf Prime

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 05:52 PM

Thanks for the info Seto Kaiba. So the 2036 VF-1 is a upgrade/modernization, neat stuff.

#90 CrazyMartian

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:08 PM

I'm glad this thread was created. I've been meaning to ask a few questions, and even placed one of them in a different form on another thread.

Here are some that I'm especially interested in:

What is the story of the people of planet Zola? Who discovered them and when?

In D7, Zolans seem to be completely integrated to the human culture, with at least one of its musicians (Elma's mother) attaining a degree of fame. The lack of mention or appearance of any Zolan in other Macross related productions seems odd to me, though.

#91 azrael

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:52 PM

What is the story of the people of planet Zola?


Just like humans. Protoculture influenced, but they come from marsupials instead of monkeys.

Who discovered them and when?

Dunno and dunno.

In D7, Zolans seem to be completely integrated to the human culture, with at least one of its musicians (Elma's mother) attaining a degree of fame. The lack of mention or appearance of any Zolan in other Macross related productions seems odd to me, though.

Space is vast. Lots of worlds out there and never enough shows to cover everyone.

#92 CrazyMartian

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 12:35 PM

Heh, thanks.

I didn't think there was so little information available, though. :/

#93 anime52k8

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:50 PM

wasn't Michael From MacF supposed to be at least part Zolan? :huh:

#94 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 05:05 PM

wasn't Michael From MacF supposed to be at least part Zolan? :huh:

2059: Memories says he's part-Zentradi, the novels make him out to be part-Zolan... it's still kinda unclear IIRC.

#95 Gubaba

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 05:13 PM

2059: Memories says he's part-Zentradi, the novels make him out to be part-Zolan... it's still kinda unclear IIRC.

Again, Macross Chronicle says he's part Zentradi with some Zolan mixed in, and the novels say the same thing.

#96 CrazyMartian

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 07:00 PM

I wonder if he has a pouch.

#97 azrael

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 07:32 PM

I wonder if he has a pouch.

I think he only let the ladies see his "pouch". :P

#98 Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 10:38 AM

I think he only let the ladies see his "pouch". :P



ugh...gross

Maybe that's why he likes Alto, pretty like a girl, but also has something for his "pouch"

Did I just say that?

Edited by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX, 22 February 2011 - 10:39 AM.


#99 Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 08:50 PM

OK, vernier slits, what do they do? Why do some new VF's have them and others not?


thanks

#100 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 09:10 PM

OK, vernier slits, what do they do? Why do some new VF's have them and others not?

Vernier slits... well, they're basically just a cluster of vernier thrusters arranged around the fighter's exhaust nozzles. It appears that they were a relatively late development in VF design, as they first appear (chronologically) on the VF-14 Vampire (either ver.) and then it appears to have been adopted by several other space-oriented VF designs (VF-17 Nightmare, VF-19F/S Excalibur, VF-5000G Star Mirage, VF-171 Nightmare Plus). Earlier designs wouldn't have them, and later designs meant for all-regime or atmospheric service (VF-11, VF-19A, VF-25) likely wouldn't use them either.

The (non-canon) Variable Fighter Master File VF-19 Excalibur book describes them as diverting exhaust from the main exhaust nozzles to operate, eliminating the need for a separate fuel source for those verniers.

Edited by Seto Kaiba, 27 February 2011 - 09:23 PM.


#101 Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 09:52 PM

Vernier slits... well, they're basically just a cluster of vernier thrusters arranged around the fighter's exhaust nozzles. It appears that they were a relatively late development in VF design, as they first appear (chronologically) on the VF-14 Vampire (either ver.) and then it appears to have been adopted by several other space-oriented VF designs (VF-17 Nightmare, VF-19F/S Excalibur, VF-5000G Star Mirage, VF-171 Nightmare Plus). Earlier designs wouldn't have them, and later designs meant for all-regime or atmospheric service (VF-11, VF-19A, VF-25) likely wouldn't use them either.

The (non-canon) Variable Fighter Master File VF-19 Excalibur book describes them as diverting exhaust from the main exhaust nozzles to operate, eliminating the need for a separate fuel source for those verniers.



Thanks for the response.

Hopefully I don't sound stupid, but what is the point of a bunch of verniers around the main exhaust when it is already able to vector its thrust? Seems like it would do the same thing only weaker. The diverting of exhaust makes sense, but why not use that exhaust for the main (already articulated) thrusters? I could see diverting exhaust for other verniers though.

Also, what are the ankle bracelets around the VF-25's feet if not vernier slits?

thanks

#102 sketchley

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 10:05 PM

If I understand things correctly, they take the place of aerodynamic controls in the void of space as well as supplementing the same controls in an atmosphere.

Verniers are also used for such things as docking with other craft in space where fine position adjustments are needed AS WELL AS changing the angle of attack (moving or rotating the vehicle in any direction while having a minimal effect on the initial trajectory.)
The diverted exhaust of the main engines are mainly used for changing the vector of acceleration AS WELL AS changing the angle of attack, but not as fast nor as precise as the vernier engines would allow.



I think the VF-25's ankle bracelets are either supplemental armour to protect the joint itself, a support frame for the joint, a cool looking detail, or all of the above.

Edited by sketchley, 27 February 2011 - 10:06 PM.


#103 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 10:19 PM

Hopefully I don't sound stupid, but what is the point of a bunch of verniers around the main exhaust when it is already able to vector its thrust? Seems like it would do the same thing only weaker. The diverting of exhaust makes sense, but why not use that exhaust for the main (already articulated) thrusters? I could see diverting exhaust for other verniers though.

Having thrust-vectoring main nozzles doesn't eliminate the need for verniers, since the nozzles can move only so far in any given direction... especially since most VFs only have two-dimensional thrust vectoring nozzles (they only move in one axis). All VFs have vernier thrusters scattered across the airframe for attitude control in space, and the vernier slit approach to attitude control appears to be something that's advantageous for space-optimized VFs, as it keeps cropping up on VFs that've been optimized for maximum performance in space.

Master File's explanation of diverting exhaust would indicate that their advantage is partly maneuverability in space and partly a fuel savings, since they offer full-360 degree coverage and draw on engine exhaust rather than having a dedicated fuel supply or tapping the main engine tanks, leaving that much more fuel to run the reaction engines and extending its range in space.



Also, what are the ankle bracelets around the VF-25's feet if not vernier slits?

IIRC, that's the thrust reverser mentioned in the stats.

Edited by Seto Kaiba, 27 February 2011 - 10:33 PM.


#104 Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 10:41 PM

IIRC, that's the thrust reverser mentioned in the stats.



Ah, I see.

#105 CrazyMartian

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 04:37 PM

What's with the reaction weaponry?

The PSP games, specifically in the Dynamite 7 campaign's final mission refer to the missiles launched against the galactic whales as "nuclear missiles", while they are referred to as "reaction" missiles in the spoken dialogue. Are the terms interchangeable?

Edited by CrazyMartian, 28 February 2011 - 04:41 PM.






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