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#1 azrael

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 09:19 AM

Original Thread: August 2003 - April 2009
Thread after that one:April 2009-August 2009
Thread after Thread after that one August 2009-October 2009
Thread after Thread after Thread after that one but before the last one: October 2009 - January 2010
The Last one: January 2010 - May 2010

No one knows the exact details of the 1984 contract between Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko Productions because this contract has not been made public. However, we can infer what the contract entails from Harmony Gold's actions and inactions. I'll keep this first post updated with the most reliable information.

SDF Macross
On October 1st, 1982, Tatsunoko Productions asked for and received the worldwide (excluding Japan) film distribution and merchandising rights from Big West as compensation for their animation assistance with SDF Macross. On January 15th, 1984, Harmony Gold licensed, and later acquired, these same film distribution and merchandising rights from Tatsunoko. However, the intellectual property rights (copyrights) for SDF Macross still resides with Big West. What this means is that Harmony Gold can legally distribute the SDF Macross footage outside of Japan (ie: the AnimEigo and ADV Macross DVD's) and edit the footage at their discretion (ie: Robotech). However, they cannot create any new animation or movies using the SDF Macross characters and mecha because they do not have the intellectual property rights (copyrights). Comic books and videogames are excluded as these fall under the category of merchandising rights.

Macross: Do You Remember Love
Harmony Gold also has the worldwide (excluding Japan) merchandising rights to Macross: Do You Remember Love. However, they do not have the film distribution rights nor the intellectual property rights (copyrights) to this movie. What this means is that Harmony Gold can legally license the distribution of DYRL merchandise (ie: Toynami's DYRL Super Posable toys) worldwide (excluding Japan). However, Harmony Gold cannot release DYRL on video, nor can they create any new animation or movies using the DYRL characters and mecha. Comic books and videogames are excluded as these fall under the category of merchandising rights.

On a related note, in 1988, Celebrity's Just For Kids released DYRL (as 'Macross in Clash of the Bionoids') in the USA under a license from Toho International Co. Ltd. In 1995, Best Film & Video Corp. released DYRL (as 'Superdimensional Fortress Macross') in the USA under a license from Big West. At Anime Central 2001, Robert Woodhead (of AnimEigo) was asked about DYRL and he said that nobody knows who owns the worldwide (excluding Japan) film distribution rights anymore.


Macross II, Macross Plus and Macross 7 Trash
The film distribution rights for Macross II and Macross Plus were licensed from Big West, by U.S. Renditions (1992) and Manga Entertainment (1995), for release in the USA without any involvement from Harmony Gold. Likewise, Macross 7 Trash was licensed from Big West, by Glénat (1998), for release in France without any involvement from Harmony Gold. In 2003, Tokyopop announced that they would release Macross 7 Trash in the USA under a license from Harmony Gold, however, the manga was never published and no official explanation was given.

Harmony Gold said that they were not involved with Macross II and Macross Plus because "no one was minding the store" at that time (source needed). The subsequent Tokyo District Court ruling determined that Tatsunoko Productions (and by extension Harmony Gold) did not have any copyrights to the Macross derivatives (ie: Macross II, Macross Plus), thereby rendering the "no one was minding the store" explanation moot.


The rest of the series
As for the rest of the Macross series (ie: Frontier, 7, et al), Harmony Gold only has certain rights to these. In 1999 and 2002, Harmony Gold tradedmarked the name 'Macross' in the USA, Canada, Germany, and the United Kingdom. What this means is that any series and merchandising featuring the 'Macross' trademark would have to compensate Harmony Gold for the use of that trademark in those respective countries. Harmony Gold also trademarked 'U.N. Spacy' in the USA and Canada. In the European Union, 'U.N. Spacy' was trademarked in November 2007 and is held by Yugenkaisya Suneast trading (aka Suneast Co.Ltd) from Tokyo, Japan.*


This is just my understanding of the current legal situation. It may not be 100% accurate, so any corrections are welcome.

Sources:
Harmony Gold et al v. FASA Corporation et al, 1996 WL 332689 (N.D.Ill.): http://terrania.us/hg-fasa/

Macross 7 Trash published in France by Glénat - http://www.macrosswo...?...st&p=732684

“Fun at Acen” - http://groups.google...27c03d7fffd14ff

“Tatsunoko Wins Macross Lawsuit” - http://www.animenews...macross-lawsuit

“Macross Lawsuit” - http://www.animenews...macross-lawsuit

Big West statement - http://web.archive.o...ents/index.html

Loo, E.:”Separated at Birth”, Animerica, 2003, Vol.11, No.1, p. 47

"Tokyopop to Publish Macross 7 Trash Manga" - http://www.animenews...s-7-trash-manga

Tom Bateman states that Harmony Gold acquired DYRL merchandising rights - http://www.robotech....mp;pagenumber=3

Canada trademark filing - http://www.ic.gc.ca/...ntIndexOnPage=1

United Kingdom trademark filing - http://www.ipo.gov.u...sticnum=2204547

European Union trademark filing - http://oami.europa.e...1/003853926.htm

United States, Germany and Spain trademark filing - These websites do not allow direct linking and must be searched manually.

*A huge thanks to Bri for getting the trademark information!


Compiling the court documents we have into a simple, itemized list:

25 February 2002 Ruling (Studio Nue owns the 41 disputed designs)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

02 October 2002 Appeal (Tatsunoko's appeal of the above - rejected)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

20 January 2003 Ruling (Tatsunoko owns economic rights to Ep1-36) (Dug up for me by Talos)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

25 September 2003 Appeal (Studio Nue's appeal of the above - rejected)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

01 July 2004 Ruling (Tatsunoko's demand for restitution against Big West & Bandai - rejected)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

27 October 2005 Appeal (Tatsunoko's appeal of the above - rejected)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06


Serial #75750692
Word Mark MACROSS
Goods and Services IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: [ Socks, footwear, shirts, sweatshirts, pajamas, warm-up suits, coats, shorts, gym shorts dresses, clothing belts, bandannas, sweaters, gloves, ear muffs, neckwear, ski wear, slacks, sun visors, suspenders, turtlenecks vests ] headwear [ bathrobes, beachwear ]. FIRST USE: 20010930. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20010930
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING

Serial #76288366
Word Mark MACROSS
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Prerecorded video cassettes and compact discs featuring music and animation from an animated cartoon series; computer game software based on an animated cartoon series. FIRST USE: 19850114. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19850114
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial #76385551
Word Mark MACROSS
Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Animated cartoon series delivered via a global computer network, television and satellite. FIRST USE: 20010800. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20010800
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING

Serial #76382155
Word Mark MACROSS
Translations The English translation of the Japanese characters "Ma-Ku-Ro-Su" which means "MACROSS". The English translation of the Chinese characters "Chou Jikuu Yousai" is "super dimension fortress". The entire title is pronounced "Chou Jikuu Yousai Ma-Ku-Ro-Su" which is officially translated as "Super Dimension Fortress Macross".
Goods and Services IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: Comic books [ and novellas ]. FIRST USE: 19841203. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19841203 IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Toy action figures. FIRST USE: 20020227. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20020227
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 26.11.01 - Rectangles as carriers or rectangles as single or multiple line borders
26.11.21 - Rectangles that are completely or partially shaded
28.01.03 - Asian characters; Chinese characters; Japanese characters

Serial #76480124
Typed Drawing
Word Mark MACROSS
Goods and Services IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Toy action figures. FIRST USE: 20020227. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20020227
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING


Just out of curiosity, I decided to do a search in the US Copyright database for "Macross" (I'm not sure I can directly link each reference but it's easy to do a lookup anyways. Linky)

Macross; Producer: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.
Type of Work: Recorded Document
Document Number: V3449D401
Date of Recordation: 2000-03-06
Entire Copyright Document: V3449 D401 P1-3
Date of Execution: 15Jan84
Title: Macross; animated TV series / Producer: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.
Notes: Original license agreement.
Party 1: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.
Party 2: Harmony Gold Ltd. USA.

Names: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.
Harmony Gold Ltd. USA

Macross: episodes 1-36. By Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.
Type of Work: Motion Picture
Registration Number / Date: PAu002503627 / 2000-03-13
Supplement to: PAu000740323 / 1985
Title: Macross: episodes 1-36. By Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.
Copyright Claimant: Harmony Gold USA, Inc. & Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd. (on original appl.: Japanese soundtrack & story)
Previous Registration: (on original appl.: English version including animation prev.reg.)
Supplement to Registration: PAu 740-323, 1985
Contents: Bobbytrap -- Countdown -- Spacefold -- Lin Minmei -- The transformation -- The Daidarus attack -- Bye-bye Mars -- The longest birthday -- Miss Macross -- The blind game -- First contact -- The big escape -- Blue wind -- Gloval’s report -- Chinatown -- Kung fu dandy -- Phantasm -- Pineapple salad -- Bursting point -- Paradise lost -- Micro-cosmos -- Love concert -- Drop out -- Goodbye girl -- Virgin road -- The messenger -- Love floats away -- My album -- Loli’s song -- Viva Mariya -- Satan’s dolls -- Broken heart -- Rainy night -- Private time -- Romanesque -- A gentle farewell.

Variant title: Macross: episodes 1-36.
Other Title: The transformation.
The Daidarus attack.
The longest birthday.
The blind game.
The big escape.
The messenger.
A gentle farewell.
Names: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.
Harmony Gold USA, Inc.

Macross : episode no. 1-36.
Type of Work: Motion Picture
Registration Number / Date: PAu000740323 / 1985-03-28
Supplemented by: PAu002503627 / 2000-03-13
Title: Macross : episode no. 1-36.
Description: 21 videocassettes (525 min.) : sd., col. ; 3/4 in.
Notes: Animated.
Language: In Japanese.
Credits: Produced by Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.
Copyright Claimant: Harmony Gold U. S. A., Inc., and Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.
Date of Creation: 1983
Authorship on Application: animation, story, soundtrack: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd., employer for hire.
Previous Registration: Preexisting material: English version including animation.
Basis of Claim: New Matter: "Japanese soundtrack and story."
Copyright Note: See also Macross: episodes 1-36; Reg. 13Mar00; PAu 2-503-627

Variant title: Macross : episode no. 1-36
Names: Harmony Gold U. S. A., Inc.
Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.


And then this:

Macross.
Type of Work: Visual Material
Registration Number / Date: VAu000534107 / 2002-05-17
Title: Macross.
Description: Drawings.
Copyright Claimant: Kabushiki Kaisha Studio Nue & Kabushiki Kaisha Big West
Date of Creation: 1982
Authorship on Application: artwork: Kabushiki Kaisha Studio Nue, employer for hire.

Names: Kabushiki Kaisha Studio Nue
Kabushiki Kaisha Big West


Majority of the references, as I understand it, of Macross relate to SDFM. :rolleyes: I need to find the Japan Copyright and Trademark databases just to see what's listed in there. :D


Harmony Gold's trademark request for "Macross" in Japan and Asia - Denied
Issued: 1-24-2004
http://shohyo.shinke...?number=1088731
http://shohyo.shinke...?number=1088733

Additional Resources:
What is Intellectual Property?
Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage

#2 Jasonc

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 11:54 AM

I think B5 proved nicely that you CAN achieve scope and richness with cheap CG. You just need an actual story to tell.

That's the problem that plagues shadow Chronicles in my opinion. I could see people making an argument if the story wasn't good, but was absolute eye candy and had the cinematography and designs to make it jaw dropping. It'd have at least something of some worth. On the flip side, I would've been totally cool with it, had it not had the greatest CG, but had a story that could captivate me, the masses, etc. The problem, is that it failed on both accounts, and is generally supported by fanboys, and people who are looking for some nostalgia, or people who don't care enough. I've seen enough anime to believe that while visuals are crucial, the story is still most important. I've seen some shows that aren't clean, crisp, and all that, but they are some of the best shows because of a great story.

And when it actually came to creating something quasi-original like The Sentinels... that's where the genius starts to fall apart. What a shame.



I always wondered what the main reaction was during those first screenings of Shadow chronicles all those years ago. Was it "That was awesome! How did they achieve so much for so little?" or was it more like "Why the hell are all those cruisers and fighters lined up so perfectly?"



Shunya is da bomb.


While The Sentinels was one of those failures that never made it off the ground for Macek, it definitely had an original take on combining the originals. Yeah, there were some aspects of it that were just horrible, but overall, it was probably one of those series I definitely would've been interested in seeing. As for Macek's other Robotech vision "Robotech:The Untold Story", that seemed more like a quick money making attempt at simply splicing two series together. Oddly enough, I find that mildly better than RTSC.

As far as the main reaction of the first screenings of Shadow Chronicles, I think it was well. Even when I first saw it at HG's screening, it was alright. I'm aware of some fans that were very excited to see it during the screenings. The problem, is that after the initial viewing, it started to sink in, all the flaws that were pretty inherent in the film. A lot of those same people that were there for the screenings, after getting it on DVD, started to take it apart bit by bit. Kinda like Star Wars ep. I, just on a much smaller level. Then again, it was Robotech fans who were watching this in the theater, so when around other Robotech fans, I think you may be hard up to find anyone that would criticize it from the get go.

#3 Einherjar

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 02:23 PM

So when would willing suspension of disbelief stop working if The Sentinels was made complete? With the sequels, prequels, and side stories supposedly being made for Robotech back in the 80s, HG would have told people ANYTHING to keep people interested as they do now. I also argue whether or not Robotech part II, III, IV, Google were actually planned and not them trying to sell people a more epic storyline that could have been rather than what it really was; creative editing.

#4 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 02:44 PM

Carl Macek wouldn't, I think, have gotten half of the jeers he got if he hadn't started acting like Robotech burst fully-formed from his skull. A lot of the anger went WAY overboard, but he does deserve some criticism for shunting aside the people who actually created the shows, and then pretending that he did all the important work.

Somehow, I doubt Macek would've been able to avoid much of the spite and bile directed at him even if he'd never deluded himself into believing he was the anime industry's answer to Gene Roddenberry and started pretending the Robotech TV series was the result of his grand creative vision. Now, I won't deny that Macek's history of telling ridiculous lies to exaggerate his own input and take credit for the work of the show's original creators will probably be a major part of how he's remembered, but that's far from the only reason anime fans considered him a blight on the industry. After all, there's also his profoundly offensive attempts to claim that he'd made the shows he worked on better by deleting the original cultural context and setting and "Americanizing" them, or trying to convince everyone that anime had no value on its own and his rewrites were profound improvements over the originals.


While The Sentinels was one of those failures that never made it off the ground for Macek, it definitely had an original take on combining the originals.

Eh? Let's be honest here... Robotech II: the Sentinels was Macek's attempt to rip off Star Trek in hopes of giving his lurching, nightmarish atrocity broader appeal. Calling it original is a bad idea... the only thing that changed was who they were stealing ideas and set pieces from.

Edited by Seto Kaiba, 13 May 2010 - 02:46 PM.


#5 Jasonc

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 04:03 PM

Eh? Let's be honest here... Robotech II: the Sentinels was Macek's attempt to rip off Star Trek in hopes of giving his lurching, nightmarish atrocity broader appeal. Calling it original is a bad idea... the only thing that changed was who they were stealing ideas and set pieces from.

Probably why I said it was an original take on the originals, and not original. I understand you can't call something completely original if you're already rehashing someone else's characters and designs. And while Sentinels did seem Star Trek like in many ways, it was still putting all those things that weren't original, in an original-esque storyline.

#6 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 04:05 PM

Probably why I said it was an original take on the originals, and not original. I understand you can't call something completely original if you're already rehashing someone else's characters and designs. And while Sentinels did seem Star Trek like in many ways, it was still putting all those things that weren't original, in an original-esque storyline.

There's a word for that... and that word is "fan-fiction".

(Of course, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to label all of Robotech as somebody's hackneyed attempt to commercialize a badly written Macross-Mospeada crossover fan-fic)

Edited by Seto Kaiba, 13 May 2010 - 04:11 PM.


#7 areaseven

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 07:11 PM

Prepare for comedy gold.

"Robotech vs. Macross" by Doug Bendo

#8 HappyPenguins

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 07:41 PM

Prepare for comedy gold.

"Robotech vs. Macross" by Doug Bendo


lawl
srs business

#9 Keith

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 09:55 PM

Prepare for comedy gold.

"Robotech vs. Macross" by Doug Bendo


LOL, if you really want some hilarity, turn on the new "audio transcribe" feature. It subtitles "Doug Bendo" as "the bindle".

Also, I'd like to apologise, as a black anime fan, I'd like to let everyone know we're not all like bendo there.

"last night, phone rings at sears year we were actually talking about." LOL, i think this thing tops babelfish!

Edited by Keith, 13 May 2010 - 09:58 PM.


#10 Einherjar

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:01 PM

Prepare for comedy gold.

"Robotech vs. Macross" by Doug Bendo


It's probably going to cater to someone, but TMI. It makes you wish the people he's helping actually throw him, and those like him, a bone one of these days out of pity.

Edited by Einherjar, 13 May 2010 - 10:02 PM.


#11 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:40 AM

Prepare for comedy gold.

"Robotech vs. Macross" by Doug Bendo

Okay, I prepared for comedy gold... so where is it? There's certainly none to be had in that pathetic Doug Bendo video, unless you find the fact that the functionally illiterate mental midget can't even spell simple words like "reborn" correctly the very height of comedy. Why waste time and posts bringing examples of his stupidity to our attention? Seeing him acting like a goddamn idiot and dribbling bullshit out of both sides of his mouth is nothing new... it's been a 24/7/365 thing for him since at least 2003.

Lemme spell it out in plain English: Doug Bendo is not worth a minute of anybody's time. He's never contributed anything of value to the Robotech fan community, and nobody of consequence cares what he has to say. He's just an idiot with a degrading dead-end job and an internet connection who desperately wants someone to take him seriously. He's a joke, and not even a funny one.

#12 Keith

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 01:16 AM

Okay, I prepared for comedy gold... so where is it? There's certainly none to be had in that pathetic Doug Bendo video, unless you find the fact that the functionally illiterate mental midget can't even spell simple words like "reborn" correctly the very height of comedy. Why waste time and posts bringing examples of his stupidity to our attention? Seeing him acting like a goddamn idiot and dribbling bullshit out of both sides of his mouth is nothing new... it's been a 24/7/365 thing for him since at least 2003.

Lemme spell it out in plain English: Doug Bendo is not worth a minute of anybody's time. He's never contributed anything of value to the Robotech fan community, and nobody of consequence cares what he has to say. He's just an idiot with a degrading dead-end job and an internet connection who desperately wants someone to take him seriously. He's a joke, and not even a funny one.


Nah, for comedy gold you have to turn auto-caption on :)

#13 taksraven

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 03:12 AM

He's a joke, and not even a funny one.


I dunno, the insanity in this 25 seconds tearing s h i t out of him is pretty good. A classic clip.....

Taksraven

Edited by taksraven, 14 May 2010 - 03:13 AM.


#14 BeyondTheGrave

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 06:38 AM

Why waste time and posts bringing examples of his stupidity to our attention? S

Then what's the purpose of this thread?

I dunno, the insanity in this 25 seconds tearing s h i t out of him is pretty good. A classic clip.....

Taksraven

:lol: I'd buy the HDDVD but I may die in the process.

#15 Ghost Train

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 07:52 AM

Prepare for comedy gold.

"Robotech vs. Macross" by Doug Bendo


/Old Lady Voice ON

Such an articulate and intelligent young man.

#16 j_wong00

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 09:54 AM

Prepare for comedy gold.

"Robotech vs. Macross" by Doug Bendo


My favourite was that he claimed Macross tech is weaker because the VF-11 has less firepower because it's gunpod is 35mm instead of the VF-1 55mm.

I'm not ballistics expert, but last time I checked, a smaller caliber round at faster speeds can do more damage then higher caliber rounds at slower speeds.

#17 Funkenstein

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 10:45 AM

That depends if the muzzle velocity is actually faster. Are there any stats like that available?

#18 j_wong00

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 10:56 AM

That depends if the muzzle velocity is actually faster. Are there any stats like that available?


Not that I'm aware.

I'm just pointing out his willingness to make blanket statements even on extremely flimsy numbers.

Maybe I should listen to the whole thing, but where he's getting his facts (SRW, even though in that game the Macross mechs pilots were totally juiced) make me roll my eyes, and shut it off.

#19 Einherjar

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 11:01 AM

Don't dwell too much on whatever he says or does. It's all a continuation of the embarrassing job doug gave himself for Robotech for the last 4 years or so.

#20 Roy Focker

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 11:55 AM

I really don't follow the Super or more Vocal Robotech fan. Click on that youtube link and decided to listen to this Doug Bendo.
Like wow! I see why you guy think he's an idiot. He think Wikipedia is a legitimate source. He raves about how inferior the Macross Universe is. How more dynamic the Robotech Mecha and story are. Preferences of taste aside if we judge Macross or Robotech based on its sequels and spin offs. Robotech is "dead". It had the 1985 series, a couple failed pilots and a DVD movie from a couple of years ago. Macross over the last twenty years had a couple of feature film, a few OVA and two full sequel series. Someone with money to invest thinks Macross has been worth while to go beyond a single pilot episode or movie. No one has invested the money yet to pay for a complete Robotech sequel. The Shadow Chronicles came close but it has been 4 years where is part two of the Shadow Chronicles? There's a Live Action Movie but its progress is so slow it is likely in and out of development hell from one month to the next.

Worst is the guys irrational hate of Macross. Most Macross fans don't hate Robotech that much. Does he really hate Macross fans that much?

#21 Maxtype

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:02 PM

Nah, for comedy gold you have to turn auto-caption on :)


You are correct - those captions are so off they are like Beat poetry or something! :lol:

I hope he enjoys his game, but I can't agree with any of his opinions or decisions.

#22 Mr March

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:07 PM

My favourite was that he claimed Macross tech is weaker because the VF-11 has less firepower because it's gunpod is 35mm instead of the VF-1 55mm.

I'm not ballistics expert, but last time I checked, a smaller caliber round at faster speeds can do more damage then higher caliber rounds at slower speeds.


I don't mean to be a geek (*chortle*), but as an occupational hazard of running a mecha website I feel the self-humiliating urge to note for posterity that the VF-11 Thunderbolt gun pod is a 30mm weapon, not 35mm :wub:

As for to-be-left unnamed pod-casting non-fans and their lack of imagination about Macross technology, I think it's safe to say technology improves over time. Because that's what any sane, rational, and well-adjusted person would assume when discussing a non-linear advancement of projectile calibers, were said person not hung up on fan-bashing :)

#23 Ghost Train

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:16 PM

Caliber itself does not tell the whole story. It is possible that the quality and destructive power of the actual round had vastly improved. Also smaller rounds can be carried in greater number than heavier rounds for improved combat staying potential. (Note, these are generic common sense statements, not necessarily Macross grounded).

#24 Jasonc

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:27 PM

My favourite was that he claimed Macross tech is weaker because the VF-11 has less firepower because it's gunpod is 35mm instead of the VF-1 55mm.

I'm not ballistics expert, but last time I checked, a smaller caliber round at faster speeds can do more damage then higher caliber rounds at slower speeds.

Some of what you say is true here. Take a look at the AK-47 vs. the M-16. While the AK-47 has a larger round, it's slower, and the effective range is not as far as the M-16. I'm quite sure that any logical person would realize that military progression moves forward, not backward. There's so many things that could've caused for the calibur of the rounds to be smaller. 1) Higher velocity, more destructive rounds. 2)Higher technologically advanced rounds (Uranium tipped, High explosive, etc).


I really don't follow the Super or more Vocal Robotech fan. Click on that youtube link and decided to listen to this Doug Bendo.
Like wow! I see why you guy think he's an idiot. He think Wikipedia is a legitimate source. He raves about how inferior the Macross Universe is. How more dynamic the Robotech Mecha and story are. Preferences of taste aside if we judge Macross or Robotech based on its sequels and spin offs. Robotech is "dead". It had the 1985 series, a couple failed pilots and a DVD movie from a couple of years ago. Macross over the last twenty years had a couple of feature film, a few OVA and two full sequel series. Someone with money to invest thinks Macross has been worth while to go beyond a single pilot episode or movie. No one has invested the money yet to pay for a complete Robotech sequel. The Shadow Chronicles came close but it has been 4 years where is part two of the Shadow Chronicles? There's a Live Action Movie but its progress is so slow it is likely in and out of development hell from one month to the next.

Worst is the guys irrational hate of Macross. Most Macross fans don't hate Robotech that much. Does he really hate Macross fans that much?

I only listened to the first ccouple minutes or so, and realized that it's gonna be just another bitchfest of how Robotech is so much better. The argument is based on his hatred for all of Macrossworld, not any real, hard knowledge. Here's the same moron that believes that everyone here is cool with child pornography, without even knowing what he's talking about, or even listening to the truth. It's not worth my time, nor do I care for idiots of the sort, but that's just how their group thinks. Their only as good as the information they feed off of each other, and that explains all the pathetic behavior right there.

#25 azrael

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:32 PM

Again I'm reminded of why I don't listen too much to the fandom lunatic-fringe. Speaking of which, I didn't bother watching this cuz I don't really care for what the attention-whore has to say.

...What did he say? :lol:

#26 Moly_Sigang

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:34 PM

Most of Doug's reasoning are just downright absurd. I mean, he thinks there is no Macross VF that could beat the AGAC because the AGAC carried more missiles (short range missiles).:o

#27 Mr March

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 01:03 PM

To Funkenstein and any other interested parties...

While there is very little information about muzzle velocity in Macross, there are SOME FEW officially published figures. However, keep in mind that although we may know a gun's muzzle velocity, the destructive potential of a given round is also greatly affected by the WEIGHT of the round, the MATERIAL from which the round is built and the DESIGN of the round.

The official muzzle velocity figures published are:

The 78 mm high-speed automatic cannons for the MBR-04-Mk X Destroid Defender have an officially published muzzle velocity of 3,300 meters per second
The GPU-9 35mm gun pod for the VF-0 Phoenix has a muzzle velocity of 1,100 meters per second
SSL-9B Dragunov Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle for the VF-25G Messiah has an initial muzzle velocity 6,200 m/s which increases to 7,490 m/s when fired in space

Also, here is a copy of my entry about Muzzle Velocity from the Macrosspedia:

Muzzle Velocity

In ballistics, muzzle velocity is the speed at which a projectile leaves the muzzle of a gun. Typically measured in meters per second, muzzle velocities in modern ballistic weapons range from subsonic speeds of 300 meters per second in some hand guns (roughly 1,000 feet per second) to high speeds of up to 1,800 m/s in most advanced conventional tank cannons (roughly 6,000 feet per second, nearly the limit possible via chemical propellants). OverTechnology not only brought about practical rail guns (weapons that fire at roughly 3,500 m/s or more), but has also significantly advanced the muzzle velocity of conventional projectile weapons. While the muzzle velocities of most weapons in Macross are unknown, the 78 mm high-speed automatic cannons of the MBR-04-Mk X Destroid Defender have been given an officially published muzzle velocity of 3,300 m/s. In 2009, the Macross Chronicle provided several additional muzzle velocities for two gun pods. In Macross Chronicle issue # 22-22, the GPU-9 35mm gun pod for the VF-0 Phoenix has a muzzle velocity of 1,100 meters per second. In Macross Chronicle issue # 35-04, the SSL-9B Dragunov Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle for the VF-25G Messiah has an initial muzzle velocity 6,200 m/s which increases to 7,490 m/s when fired in space.



#28 Dynaman

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 02:06 PM

There's so many things that could've caused for the calibur of the rounds to be smaller.


In the case of the M16 it is two things.

1 - Bullets are lighter so the soldiers can carry more of them.
2 - Recoil is much lower with a lighter bullet.

(but I digress from the topic...)

#29 taksraven

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 02:09 PM

I love the part where he says that *he doesn't really like Macross anyway* And my reaction to that is "Oh Yeah!" "OH YEAH!!" "OH YEAH!!!" "REALLY!!!!"

Clearly this is a man who only loves Mospeada and Southern Cross!! Its a wonder he got into RT at all since he would have to have sat through the b-o-r-i-n-g Macross crap at the start!

I can put up with a lot of things but his blatant LIES like that piss me off. Also, if you watch the video you will note that his hands are below frame most of the time and I know what he is doing with them. It must have been hard for him to resist touching his nipples as well......

Yuk.

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#30 Beltane70

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 03:36 PM

Ah yes, the Doug Bendo argument that the VF-1 is more powerful than a VF-11 and the VF-17 is only as good.

I had this one out with him around December when he was posting on RT.com under a different name. I was using the stats of the three fighters right off of the Macross Compendium, but of course, I was immediately dismisseded because, to quote him, "it's just another case of Macross fans making up their stats to try to prove that Macross mecha is superior to Robotech mecha."

His "evidence" that the VF-1 is more powerful is solely based on the fact that in Macross 7, the VF-11 squadrons were beeing wiped out by the Varuta mecha, but the single VF-1 was able to beat them fairly easily, totally ignoring the fact that it was because it was Milia flying it and not some no-name UN Spacy pilot.

#31 terry the lone wolf

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 04:47 PM

This is coming from a RT fan: Doug Bendo is CRAZY!!!!

#32 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 05:05 PM

Then what's the purpose of this thread?

Well, the stated purpose is to discuss and inform people about the Macross licensing thing and why Harmony Gold are a bunch of tossers... but if we're going to discuss stupidity in the Robotech fanbase, let's at least focus on the people who actually matter, and not just some internet gutter snipe who calls people names on some free podcast because he's desperately trying to compensate for the fact that his life is going nowhere. If you're looking for stupidity from people who matter, you still don't have to look very hard where Robotech is concerned... Tommy Yune is a veritable treasure trove of moon logic and idiocy... so was Carl Macek. Hell, you can even have a go at the abundant stupidity from Luceno and Daley, or Spangler, or any of the other idiots who've contributed their dubious talents to Robotech over the years.



Caliber itself does not tell the whole story. It is possible that the quality and destructive power of the actual round had vastly improved. Also smaller rounds can be carried in greater number than heavier rounds for improved combat staying potential. (Note, these are generic common sense statements, not necessarily Macross grounded).

Considering the semi-recent developments explaining that all gunpods from the GU-11 on were using rounds designed for penetrating energy converting armor, one would assume that to be a major area of advancement over the years, considering energy converting armor visibly improved.

#33 Einherjar

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 05:19 PM

Again I'm reminded of why I don't listen too much to the fandom lunatic-fringe. Speaking of which, I didn't bother watching this cuz I don't really care for what the attention-whore has to say.

...What did he say? :lol:


This is an attention-whore.





doug's just a loser.

Where's Tommy and co. to vindicate him these days? Has the 25th anniversary lost its relevance?

Edited by azrael, 14 May 2010 - 05:25 PM.


#34 azrael

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 05:25 PM

His "evidence" that the VF-1 is more powerful is solely based on the fact that in Macross 7, the VF-11 squadrons were beeing wiped out by the Varuta mecha, but the single VF-1 was able to beat them fairly easily, totally ignoring the fact that it was because it was Milia flying it and not some no-name UN Spacy pilot.

Ahhh yes...And wasn't that said VF-1 torn to shreds later on? Even when it had Super parts..... :rolleyes: Like I said, it's why I don't bother listening.

#35 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 05:43 PM

Where's Tommy and co. to vindicate him these days? Has the 25th anniversary lost its relevance?

Eh... the only time Tommy ever takes notice of what Robotech fans are doing is when he's either plotting to make them surrender their work to him so he can take credit for it, or plotting to kill the fan project for stepping on his toes. The idiot in question does nothing Tommy would want to take credit for or call attention to, and he's not doing anything of any real value that might make Tommy look bad by comparison, so Tommy doesn't care.


Ahhh yes...And wasn't that said VF-1 torn to shreds later on? Even when it had Super parts..... :rolleyes: Like I said, it's why I don't bother listening.

Yep, it was only ever performing well against the Fz-109s when it was fighting inside the dome, where the VF-14-based Fz-109 is at a distinct disadvantage. Once the battle was in space, it was spanked so quickly it wasn't funny... and with a UN ace at the controls too.




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