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HG and Robotech Debates


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#1 azrael

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 10:20 PM

Original Thread: August 2003 - April 2009
Thread after that one: April 2009-August 2009
Thread after Thread after that one but before The last one: August 2009-October 2009
The last one: October 2009 - January 2010

QUOTE (TheLoneWolf @ Apr 28 2009, 07:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No one knows the exact details of the 1984 contract between Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko Productions because this contract has not been made public. However, we can infer what the contract entails from Harmony Gold's actions and inactions. I'll keep this first post updated with the most reliable information.

SDF Macross

On October 1st, 1982, Tatsunoko Productions asked for and received the worldwide (excluding Japan) film distribution and merchandising rights from Big West as compensation for their animation assistance with SDF Macross. On January 15th, 1984, Harmony Gold licensed, and later acquired, these same film distribution and merchandising rights from Tatsunoko. However, the intellectual property rights for SDF Macross still resides with Big West. What this means is that Harmony Gold can legally distribute the SDF Macross footage outside of Japan (ie: the AnimEigo and ADV Macross DVD's) and edit the footage at their discretion (ie: Robotech). However, they cannot create any new animation or movies using the SDF Macross characters and mecha because they do not have the intellectual property rights. Comic books and videogames are excluded as these fall under the category of merchandising rights.


Macross: Do You Remember Love

Harmony Gold also has the worldwide (excluding Japan) merchandising rights to Macross: Do You Remember Love. However, they do not have the film distribution rights nor the intellectual property rights to this movie. What this means is that Harmony Gold can legally license the distribution of DYRL merchandise (ie: Toynami's DYRL Super Posable toys) worldwide (excluding Japan). However, Harmony Gold cannot release DYRL on video, nor can they create any new animation or movies using the DYRL characters and mecha. Comic books and videogames are excluded as these fall under the category of merchandising rights.

On a related note, in 1988, Celebrity's Just For Kids released DYRL (as 'Macross in Clash of the Bionoids') in the USA under a license from Toho International Co. Ltd. In 1995, Best Film & Video Corp. released DYRL (as 'Superdimensional Fortress Macross') in the USA under a license from Big West. At Anime Central 2001, Robert Woodhead (of AnimEigo) was asked about DYRL and he said that nobody knows who owns the worldwide (excluding Japan) film distribution rights anymore.


Macross II, Macross Plus and Macross 7 Trash

The film distribution rights for Macross II and Macross Plus were licensed from Big West, by U.S. Renditions (1992) and Manga Entertainment (1995), for release in the USA without any involvement from Harmony Gold. Likewise, Macross 7 Trash was licensed from Big West, by GlÚnat (1998), for release in France without any involvement from Harmony Gold. In 2003, Tokyopop announced that they would release Macross 7 Trash in the USA under a license from Harmony Gold, however, the manga was never published and no official explanation was given.

Harmony Gold said that they were not involved with Macross II and Macross Plus because "no one was minding the store" at that time (source needed). The subsequent Tokyo District Court ruling determined that Tatsunoko Productions (and by extension Harmony Gold) did not have any copyrights to the Macross derivatives (ie: Macross II, Macross Plus), thereby rendering the "no one was minding the store" explanation moot.


The rest of the series

As for the rest of the Macross series (ie: Frontier, 7, et al), Harmony Gold only has certain rights to these. In 1999 and 2002, Harmony Gold tradedmarked the name 'Macross' in the USA, Canada, Germany, and the United Kingdom. What this means is that any series and merchandising featuring the 'Macross' trademark would have to compensate Harmony Gold for the use of that trademark in those respective countries. Harmony Gold also trademarked 'U.N. Spacy' in the USA and Canada. In the European Union, 'U.N. Spacy' was trademarked in November 2007 and is held by Yugenkaisya Suneast trading (aka Suneast Co.Ltd) from Tokyo, Japan.*


This is just my understanding of the current legal situation. It may not be 100% accurate, so any corrections are welcome.


Sources:

Harmony Gold et al v. FASA Corporation et al, 1996 WL 332689 (N.D.Ill.): http://terrania.us/hg-fasa/

Macross 7 Trash published in France by GlÚnat - http://www.macrosswo...?...st&p=732684

“Fun at Acen” - http://groups.google...27c03d7fffd14ff

“Tatsunoko Wins Macross Lawsuit” - http://www.animenews...macross-lawsuit

“Macross Lawsuit” - http://www.animenews...macross-lawsuit

Big West statement - http://web.archive.o...ents/index.html

Loo, E.:”Separated at Birth”, Animerica, 2003, Vol.11, No.1, p. 47

"Tokyopop to Publish Macross 7 Trash Manga" - http://www.animenews...s-7-trash-manga

Tom Bateman states that Harmony Gold acquired DYRL merchandising rights - http://www.robotech....mp;pagenumber=3

Canada trademark filing - http://www.ic.gc.ca/...ntIndexOnPage=1

United Kingdom trademark filing - http://www.ipo.gov.u...sticnum=2204547

European Union trademark filing - http://oami.europa.e...1/003853926.htm

United States, Germany and Spain trademark filing - These websites do not allow direct linking and must be searched manually.

*A huge thanks to Bri for getting the trademark information!


QUOTE (Seto Kaiba @ Sep 17 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Compiling the court documents we have into a simple, itemized list:

25 February 2002 Ruling (Studio Nue owns the 41 disputed designs)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

02 October 2002 Appeal (Tatsunoko's appeal of the above - rejected)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

20 January 2003 Ruling (Tatsunoko owns economic rights to Ep1-36) (Dug up for me by Talos)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

25 September 2003 Appeal (Studio Nue's appeal of the above - rejected)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

01 July 2004 Ruling (Tatsunoko's demand for restitution against Big West & Bandai - rejected)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06

27 October 2005 Appeal (Tatsunoko's appeal of the above - rejected)
http://www.courts.go...mp;hanreiKbn=06


#2 Robelwell202

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 10:26 PM

Okie Dokie...

Azrael wrote:

QUOTE
Took you 7~8 years. But thanks for agreeing with me-of-7~8 years ago.


Well, sir, I've only been web-forum active for a little over a year... Sorry for taking so long. cool.gif

#3 Jasonc

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 10:31 PM

Bam!!! And now we reached a new thread for the new year. Thanks for the "reset", let the games begin.

#4 RedWolf

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 10:36 PM

Frankly I'm amazed this is the most active thread in the forum. wacko.gif

#5 Saraphys

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:11 PM

Well, there's just so much to discuss about Harmony Gold and Robotech...
The idiocracy of it all surpasses even the height of the Unified Field Theory... Obviously in terms of the Absolute Measure; UFT is the holy grail of science, Robotech is the holy grail of idiots laugh.gif tongue.gif biggrin.gif

I made another funny...HA-HA-HA-HA! laugh.gif

#6 Robelwell202

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:27 PM

QUOTE (Saraphys @ Jan 8 2010, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, there's just so much to discuss about Harmony Gold and Robotech...
The idiocracy of it all surpasses even the height of the Unified Field Theory... Obviously in terms of the Absolute Measure; UFT is the holy grail of science, Robotech is the holy grail of idiots laugh.gif tongue.gif biggrin.gif

I made another funny...HA-HA-HA-HA! laugh.gif



Oh... we were supposed to laugh?

Sorry, I don't think I got the notification... unsure.gif

#7 Einherjar

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:38 PM

Guess all that's left is to make HG squirm economically & legally. If you hate Robotech and/or HG for any reason, boycott the hell out of everything they do this year. Don't be tempted into buying some cheaply made overpriced merchandise (limited run or whatnot) & DVD reprints of something you already have. For example, that vinyl Regult coming out soon, don't help them get the $50,000 they could potentially make, before subtracting the costs to make them, selling at a limited run of 2000 at $25 each. Don't go to a certain covention panel tour occuring annually that will most likely go through the same song & dance as MEMO has conveniently posted on youtube. Thankfully, he probably saved many people the trouble of going to one and directly getting the run around by "professionals." Also, stop paying attention to prominent personalities in that fandom who are really either shills for HG or downright crazies for a kid's show. They have been, and will continue to do this forever. They all LOVE Robotech.

#8 Moly_Sigang

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 12:46 AM

QUOTE (Einherjar @ Jan 8 2010, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Guess all that's left is to make HG squirm economically & legally. If you hate Robotech and/or HG for any reason, boycott the hell out of everything they do this year. Don't be tempted into buying some cheaply made overpriced merchandise (limited run or whatnot) & DVD reprints of something you already have. For example, that vinyl Regult coming out soon, don't help them get the $50,000 they could potentially make, before subtracting the costs to make them, selling at a limited run of 2000 at $25 each. Don't go to a certain covention panel tour occuring annually that will most likely go through the same song & dance as MEMO has conveniently posted on youtube. Thankfully, he probably saved many people the trouble of going to one and directly getting the run around by "professionals." Also, stop paying attention to prominent personalities in that fandom who are really either shills for HG or downright crazies for a kid's show. They have been, and will continue to do this forever. They all LOVE Robotech.


Even if we try to boycott them, there will still be some fanboys who'll buy their merchandises or will eagerly attend their convention appearances even thought it's going to be the same $&*% as last year. Only this time though, they can brag on on how it's Robotech's 25th Anniversary. ohmy.gif

#9 Keith

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 12:48 AM

QUOTE (Einherjar @ Jan 8 2010, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Guess all that's left is to make HG squirm economically & legally. If you hate Robotech and/or HG for any reason, boycott the hell out of everything they do this year. Don't be tempted into buying some cheaply made overpriced merchandise (limited run or whatnot) & DVD reprints of something you already have. For example, that vinyl Regult coming out soon, don't help them get the $50,000 they could potentially make, before subtracting the costs to make them, selling at a limited run of 2000 at $25 each. Don't go to a certain covention panel tour occuring annually that will most likely go through the same song & dance as MEMO has conveniently posted on youtube. Thankfully, he probably saved many people the trouble of going to one and directly getting the run around by "professionals." Also, stop paying attention to prominent personalities in that fandom who are really either shills for HG or downright crazies for a kid's show. They have been, and will continue to do this forever. They all LOVE Robotech.


That won't stop them. In order to shut down HG, we'll all have to band together to pretend we live in the area's they have their realestate dealings in, pretend to be obnoxiou soccupents, and scare away any potential buyers. Only then can we truly destroy HG!!

#10 taksraven

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 04:22 AM

And WHAM!!!!!

Here we are in a new body, but still the same. This must be how the Doctor feels after he regenerates.


QUOTE
Otherwise we will punish ALL of you.


Does Az mean everybody who posts in the thread, everybody at Macrossworld, or everybody in the known universe?? laugh.gif laugh.gif

I think that this thread should be set up, the rule is that nobody is allowed to post in it, and then wait and see who breaks first.

Now where were we.

Oh, thats right. HG/RT/CM/TY suck.

Did I leave anybody out??

Taksraven

#11 RedWolf

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 04:41 AM

QUOTE (taksraven @ Jan 9 2010, 04:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did I leave anybody out??

Taksraven


Frank Agrama

#12 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 05:32 AM

QUOTE (Robelwell202 @ Jan 9 2010, 01:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, sir, I've only been web-forum active for a little over a year... Sorry for taking so long. cool.gif

To say nothing of the fact that you're even newer to Macross than you are to web forums...


QUOTE (RedWolf @ Jan 9 2010, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Frankly I'm amazed this is the most active thread in the forum. wacko.gif

Saraphys hit the nail on the head... there's so much drama and rampant stupidity coming from fans of the Robotech franchise and, to a lesser extent, Harmony Gold itself, that this thread will probably never find itself short of topics for discussion or targets for a well-deserved verbal thrashing.

#13 Saraphys

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 06:50 AM

QUOTE (Seto Kaiba @ Jan 10 2010, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Saraphys hit the nail on the head... there's so much drama and rampant stupidity coming from fans of the Robotech franchise and, to a lesser extent, Harmony Gold itself, that this thread will probably never find itself short of topics for discussion or targets for a well-deserved verbal thrashing.

...Well I'm glad somebody got it...



On another note...
I cant find a trademarking filing for the Macross name in Australia; y'know, like the UK, Canada, etc one's...

I'm...so...happy...
Australian copyright laws win again!!!

...If only MADMAN wasn't taken over by FUNimation AUS, which is staffed by ignorants sad.gif

#14 Freiflug88

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:14 AM

QUOTE (Keith @ Jan 9 2010, 03:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That won't stop them. In order to shut down HG, we'll all have to band together to pretend we live in the area's they have their realestate dealings in, pretend to be obnoxiou soccupents, and scare away any potential buyers. Only then can we truly destroy HG!!


Rather then buy houses we should pooling the money we use for our Macross addiction together and pay off part of America's debt to China this year in exchange for them to never ever allow HG to get their paws on Astro Plan. If they do we worst case scenario we are looking at Robotech for kiddies and a new pandemic of childhood nostalgia for Robotech.

#15 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:29 AM

QUOTE (Saraphys @ Jan 9 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I cant find a trademarking filing for the Macross name in Australia; y'know, like the UK, Canada, etc one's... [...] ...If only MADMAN wasn't taken over by FUNimation AUS, which is staffed by ignorants sad.gif

Honestly, I really don't think it matters one way or the other where Australia's concerned. It's such a small market, even compared to the anime industry in America, that in terms of the potential profits involved, it really isn't worth it for Australian distributors to license, translate, and dub shows directly from Japan. It's considerably cheaper and easier for distributors in Australia to obtain the regional distribution rights to the American distributor's finished product. It's why the Australian anime industry releases lag up to several years behind the American industry, and why there's such a preponderance of imported American TV on Australian networks... it's cheaper that way.

So really, even if Harmony Gold doesn't have the legal wherewithal to trademark the name "Macross" in Australia, it really doesn't matter because almost all of your anime is coming secondhand from American distributors and is just being filtered by your regional distributors.


EDIT: As the above concerns the entertainment industry in Oz, we wish to remind you that it in no way reflects the opinions, views, or beliefs of the Lollipop Guild. (I know, I know, reaching for the low-hanging fruit)

Edited by Seto Kaiba, 09 January 2010 - 07:31 AM.


#16 Einherjar

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE (Moly_Sigang @ Jan 9 2010, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Even if we try to boycott them, there will still be some fanboys who'll buy their merchandises or will eagerly attend their convention appearances even thought it's going to be the same $&*% as last year. Only this time though, they can brag on on how it's Robotech's 25th Anniversary. ohmy.gif


At this point, there can't be that many still around. There has to be rational people in that group who are smarter consumers than them, especially after how people in general are treated when it comes to Robotech. Plus, there are still a lot of things working against HG at any given moment; a recession in the U.S., a state wide budget crisis in California, waiting on WB to make something out of Robotech (not the other way around), the quality of their products historically rarely improving with set prices that attract only the diehards of diehards, and the original franchise they're trying to be like making a financial and influential impact in their turf despite being restricted to one country. This should not be the ideal situation to encourage bait people to buy poor quality products again because of a mostly meaningless milestone.

It's not my problem if people like MEMO have the impulse to buy 10 of each item when it's painfully clear they shouldn't. It's also not my problem if some ideas just become too ridiculous and not financially sound to show that love for Robotech.

http://www.robotechx...ilms-works.html

The Macross/Robotech conundrum is really a situation that forces you to be smarter as a consumer to avoid being played like a fool on a daily basis. Unfortunately, people are not learning.

Edited by Einherjar, 09 January 2010 - 10:58 AM.


#17 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 12:06 PM

QUOTE (Einherjar @ Jan 9 2010, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For his sake, I really hope MEMO's one of those people who has trouble distinguishing between "laughing with" and "laughing at". Since it's a fan project with involvement from MEMO, we can safely assume that Blake and Dartallion'll be doing all the actual work, and MEMO'll be taking all the credit in hopes that he'll finally land a job at Harmony Gold... just like he's done with everything else. It's also a safe bet that what little they do produce before giving up is going to be a bad joke.


QUOTE (Einherjar @ Jan 9 2010, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Macross/Robotech conundrum is really a situation that forces you to be smarter as a consumer to avoid being played like a fool on a daily basis. Unfortunately, people are not learning.

At times like this I'm reminded of an old H.L. Mencken quote: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

Oh, people are learning all right... but at the core of the Robotech fanbase is a collection of people who're simply too stupid or too blinded by ignorance and nostalgia to realize that Harmony Gold's been playing them for suckers for twenty five years and counting.

#18 Jasonc

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE


This hasn't been talked about just over last year, it's been talked about for about 3 years at least. It would be better just using the Toynami toys to do a stop motion short. Gee, if I volunteer, would I gain clout wth the fan powers that be? Oh please, please, please??? Going through trash cans sounds like a lot of fun. laugh.gif

I wonder who the cast will be? I doubt any of them would fit into the Misa and Hikaru uniforms I have. I'd also give them the number to a costume designer I know who did the costuming for Dances with Wolves, but I don't want to ruin my rapport with him.

While I do know some of the guys working on this thing, it just seems like such a bad idea. Dartallion is a very cool guy, and he's just a fun guy to hang out with. If they're gonna have anything good come out of their fan made RT film, I'm sure he's got the skills and goods to make it happen.

Kinda reminds me of when a couple guys and I were thinking of making a Mospeada short film. The idea of the film was maybe 20-30 minutes, 3-8 person cast, and was more of an apocalypse film, just with the Inbit as the bringer of it. There was no happy ending to it, and it was planned to be a grainy version of Mospeada, kinda like the new Battlestar show. I even went as far as making, and acquiring about 45% of a mospeada body armor. Even had a guy who had a vintage Green camoflauge jeep that he wanted to see in it. I figured I come to it later after marriage and all, but not sure if the interest is there from the old team. Even my interest in it has wained out.

Their idea seems a bit overzealous. Without massive CG, it may be quite laughable. It'll be interesting to see if it even comes to fruition.

#19 Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:09 PM

Hey Azrael, I always sifted through the previous threads to find out what exactly happened with the license(s). In this one post you have not only answered my questions but also cleared things up in a HUGE way. Thanks for posting this thread!

#20 Moly_Sigang

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:20 PM

QUOTE (Einherjar @ Jan 9 2010, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At this point, there can't be that many still around. There has to be rational people in that group who are smarter consumers than them, especially after how people in general are treated when it comes to Robotech. Plus, there are still a lot of things working against HG at any given moment; a recession in the U.S., a state wide budget crisis in California, waiting on WB to make something out of Robotech (not the other way around), the quality of their products historically rarely improving with set prices that attract only the diehards of diehards, and the original franchise they're trying to be like making a financial and influential impact in their turf despite being restricted to one country. This should not be the ideal situation to encourage bait people to buy poor quality products again because of a mostly meaningless milestone.

It's not my problem if people like MEMO have the impulse to buy 10 of each item when it's painfully clear they shouldn't. It's also not my problem if some ideas just become too ridiculous and not financially sound to show that love for Robotech.

http://www.robotechx...ilms-works.html

The Macross/Robotech conundrum is really a situation that forces you to be smarter as a consumer to avoid being played like a fool on a daily basis. Unfortunately, people are not learning.


I believe there's still a lot of folks out there who saw Robotech when they were stiill kids, but never took part in the fandom, or they simply didn't bother up until now. This are the people who haven't been acquainted yet with HG's darker side.

#21 azrael

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:52 PM

QUOTE (Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 @ Jan 9 2010, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey Azrael, I always sifted through the previous threads to find out what exactly happened with the license(s). In this one post you have not only answered my questions but also cleared things up in a HUGE way. Thanks for posting this thread!

Don't thank me, Thank TheLoneWolf.

#22 kung flu

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 02:14 PM

After reading the licence agreements above, it really does make my blood boil at how HG has made a big mess of things for macross. The fact that they block anything macross from coming to the west makes it even worst.

I get the impression that HG are still trying to market Robotech as still being the "next big thing", but its an old dinosaur. There is no new material for their franchise in decades. They're not getting any new fans and the old fans have either gotten tired of the lack of new materials or have out grown the franchise. Other franchises have faced similar problems, like gundam but bandai solved that by adding side stories and alternate universes.

Robotech fans have probably moved on to macross because it has stormed ahead with ovas and new tv series. It seems like HG is trying to stop this exodus of fans by trying to block access to macross, unless they have given it their approval.

It apears HG has made no attempt at trying to expand the franchise they have created, no atempt at new stories or materials that can make it split away from macross and grow into something unique and original, something they can actually call their own. They've only waited 20 years or so to come up with a new show/movie and by that time its already too late.

This is only my point of view and i have no right to judge Robotech since i've never seen it before, so i'm not saying its utter crap or anything, but HG's attitude does kind of put me off from wanting to see it.

Edited by kung flu, 09 January 2010 - 03:17 PM.


#23 Robelwell202

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE
It apears HG has made no attempt at trying to expand the franchise they have created, no atempt at new stories or materials that can make it split away from macross and grow into something unique and original, something they can actually call their own. They've only waited 20 years or so to come up with a new show/movie and by that time its already too late.


That's not exactly the case, but it's close...

Harmony Gold has tried to expand the RT-Universe a couple different times, but the only attempt that held any real promise was 'Robotech: The Sentinels' (And even the idea of 'promise' in this expansion is heavily debatable), but that fell through because of Matchbox pulling out of a toy deal, I think.

Beyond that, you have many different comic series coming out in the '90s, and the utter failure that was 'Robotech 3000'. After that, there was the whole series of crap surrounding 'Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles', which was hailed as a great success because it won an award at the Cannes Film Festival (Never mind that it was the only entry in that catagory), and supposedly, it was a huge financial success for Harmony Gold (Even though the production budget was extremely small to begin with).

Ultimately, it can be argued (quite successfully) that every time HG tried to continue the RT story, they met with abject failure. The novels, comics, artbooks, and other published material surrounding all the main animated stuff are all contradictory, and most have been relegated to non-canon status after a major retcon by HG's new management some time ago.

I'm not clear about all the minute details, but others on here are. They can fill you in on the details.

#24 Jasonc

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 04:48 PM

http://www.robotech....mp;pagenumber=7


OK, finally read through the entire thread, and all I can say is.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

I think that's about the best summary of that whole thread. "Somebody crapped on the Pizza", LMFAO!!! Are these people even worth debating? The few that make the big stink aren't, as I've realized. It's more like they're doing it so we can laugh at them (not with them).

On a more serious note, if any serious, level headed RT fans read this topic, I want to thank you for not going down that road of insanity it seems the few who have no purpose in life keep going down. By all means, support your franchise for whatever reason you have, but keep your sanity. It's probably you, not HG and not the mods or the wannabes that really should make your franchise.


#25 Robelwell202

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 05:06 PM

QUOTE (Jasonc @ Jan 9 2010, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://www.robotech....mp;pagenumber=7


OK, finally read through the entire thread, and all I can say is.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

I think that's about the best summary of that whole thread. "Somebody crapped on the Pizza", LMFAO!!! Are these people even worth debating? The few that make the big stink aren't, as I've realized. It's more like they're doing it so we can laugh at them (not with them).

On a more serious note, if any serious, level headed RT fans read this topic, I want to thank you for not going down that road of insanity it seems the few who have no purpose in life keep going down. By all means, support your franchise for whatever reason you have, but keep your sanity. It's probably you, not HG and not the mods or the wannabes that really should make your franchise.



The problem is, those uf us who could be called 'level-headed fans', and those fewer of us that do what we can to make 'our own franchise' usually fall into the 'disgusted fan' syndrome.

Ultimately, I can only speak for myself, so here goes...

It's somewhat widely known that I write an RT fanfic. As I've explained before, the RT universe was where I chose to place my story simply because it's the one I know more about. Also, I do carry some fond nostalgic memories of the series, and I probably always will.

The problem, though, is that people like me, who produce our own stuff, get harrassed and badgered for not carrying the company line more. It's a common problem.

For me, it's a case of simple disgust. I've said before that RT dhould be relegated to one of those old 80's cartoons (Like Thundercats, MASK, etc.) that people remember fondly. However, Harmony Gold is trying to force it into some form of relevance that isn't really there. Also, they're trying to cash in on the current rush of 80s-cartoons/toys-to-LAMs, which is a joke, at best.

So, here I am, voicing my view on HG's lame attempts, and I get labeled a 'Macross Purist', even though I write an RT fiction. Apparently, any loyal fan must believe in the absolute, undenyable wisdom of HG, the absolute and undenyable quality of RT:TSC, and wait with baited breath for the LAM, which has everyone at Paramount quaking in their boots.

Well, I don't. I see about ten metric tons of BS being crammed into a five-ton bag.

So, here I am, drifting more and more towards Macross, Gundam, and other titles, and leaving the crap-storm that is RT behind.

It's sad, really...

#26 Einherjar

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE (Moly_Sigang @ Jan 9 2010, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe there's still a lot of folks out there who saw Robotech when they were stiill kids, but never took part in the fandom, or they simply didn't bother up until now. This are the people who haven't been acquainted yet with HG's darker side.


Then this is by far the best time for people like that to get acquainted to it, with the kind of unity the 25th anniversary is bound to spark. Imagine the personal stories of people like Zen72 and Robelwell202 drastically increasing from this milestone. If people still don't know about HG's horrible secrets, they will in the most uncomfortable way possible very soon. Plus, hopefully, many of them are now well rounded adults like those above who see what's really happening quickly.

There has to be a lot of people in that group who are going to ask, "What the hell happened in 25 years?"

#27 Rossi

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 09:31 PM

QUOTE
On a more serious note, if any serious, level headed RT fans read this topic, I want to thank you for not going down that road of insanity it seems the few who have no purpose in life keep going down. By all means, support your franchise for whatever reason you have, but keep your sanity. It's probably you, not HG and not the mods or the wannabes that really should make your franchise.
Surprisingly, there are a few of us lurking about - here and there. From one level-headed fan to another, I thank you. My sanity was never jeopardized by the "debates" on this thread or over at Robotech.com. If anything, I find the entire discussion amusing - that's why I keep reading! It is refreshing to read someone's words who isn't the least bit concerned with why I like an anime series and is just willing to accept it.

Like I've said before, I do enjoy the informed, sarcastic (and insane) posts here. I always visualize an aquarium full of piranhas, with wide smiles, encouraging other fishy friends to "Come on in!" and "Test the water; we encourage new meat, err, members here!" I think it's great that so many people have found something that they are passionate about. For some reason, though, I don't think any Robotech fans will be changing anyone's mind here anytime soon. But that's not really the point anymore, right?

Rather than operate under the false pretense of debate, why not call this thread what it really is for many of the contributors here? "HG and Robotech: Point and Laugh. Not that I'm pointing and laughing at anyone, of course. I truly enjoy both franchises. Also, the thread over at Robotech.com... Originally posted in good fun - no serious attempt to debate was made by the original poster. What it has become was inevitable, but what can you do??? I agree that some of the subject lines have been pretty funny though!!!

Post on, my friends, I'll keep reading and enjoying!

BTW - Azrael, thank you for restarting the thread; it was a beast to read after being away for days!!!

#28 kanedaestes

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 09:48 PM

Um I have no idea why I lurker at that damned site at times. It makes me ashamed to say I ever liked Robotech with such closed mindedness like that. Those guys are all kinds of up their own asses. I, many of times want to sign up to say a thing or two, but i know better and will be banned after two days talking about the superiority of Macross and Macross products.

I like how they use the WB LAM as a base for why Robotech is better. If those morons knew better they would know that no Hollywood studio can make a Macross film because of the HG and their strong hold on the name and license. I wish that site would just burn.

#29 HappyPenguins

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 12:12 AM

QUOTE (Jasonc @ Jan 9 2010, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://www.robotech....mp;pagenumber=7


OK, finally read through the entire thread, and all I can say is.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

I think that's about the best summary of that whole thread. "Somebody crapped on the Pizza", LMFAO!!! Are these people even worth debating? The few that make the big stink aren't, as I've realized. It's more like they're doing it so we can laugh at them (not with them).

On a more serious note, if any serious, level headed RT fans read this topic, I want to thank you for not going down that road of insanity it seems the few who have no purpose in life keep going down. By all means, support your franchise for whatever reason you have, but keep your sanity. It's probably you, not HG and not the mods or the wannabes that really should make your franchise.


This is why I now avoid that site like the plague, unless I get curious enough to view the train wrecks. Anyways it's no surprise at all that pizza boy is still being himself, despite the amount of bannings and warnings hes received.
I also facepalm at the defence of RT because of WB wanting to turn the franchise into their next cash cow.

As for sanity, I'm pretty insane as an individual but that's just my personality per say.. however when it comes to the Robotech fandom, I am sane
funny how that works...

#30 Jasonc

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 01:45 AM

QUOTE
Surprisingly, there are a few of us lurking about - here and there. From one level-headed fan to another, I thank you. My sanity was never jeopardized by the "debates" on this thread or over at Robotech.com. If anything, I find the entire discussion amusing - that's why I keep reading! It is refreshing to read someone's words who isn't the least bit concerned with why I like an anime series and is just willing to accept it.

Like I've said before, I do enjoy the informed, sarcastic (and insane) posts here. I always visualize an aquarium full of piranhas, with wide smiles, encouraging other fishy friends to "Come on in!" and "Test the water; we encourage new meat, err, members here!" I think it's great that so many people have found something that they are passionate about. For some reason, though, I don't think any Robotech fans will be changing anyone's mind here anytime soon. But that's not really the point anymore, right?

Rather than operate under the false pretense of debate, why not call this thread what it really is for many of the contributors here? "HG and Robotech: Point and Laugh. Not that I'm pointing and laughing at anyone, of course. I truly enjoy both franchises. Also, the thread over at Robotech.com... Originally posted in good fun - no serious attempt to debate was made by the original poster. What it has become was inevitable, but what can you do??? I agree that some of the subject lines have been pretty funny though!!!

Post on, my friends, I'll keep reading and enjoying!

BTW - Azrael, thank you for restarting the thread; it was a beast to read after being away for days!!!


You know, this thread is intended for the licensing and "debate" of things Robotech. I think originally, it was meant as a true Q&A, and debate what happened in the rulings type thread. However, the select few RT fans have given more to debate about, and they help perpetuate this thread. Strange how that works, I know, but that's the real bread and butter of why this thread still goes strong. It's almost like there's a sign over there for normal people that should say "don't feed the idiots", and whether they do or don't get fed, different things start to happen just by being in there. It really should be a case study for some psychologists, but I don't think they'd want to convolute their papers on Robotech. Heck, they could do it here, too. But I think they'd get bored with the outcomes. My comments to the sane Robotech fans was simple...If you like Robotech, by all means like it. I'm not trying to win some made up war or convert people to Macross. Robotech (the original 85 airing in 85) has a place for those who watched it. Whether it was their intro to anime, nostalgia, or it's a story you just liked and rememberd the story, people are gonna like what they know, and that's fine. As I told Steve Yun in an email conversation, (summarizing) if someone is gonna get that defensive over a product to where they feel they need to defend it and silence people, then their's a problem with the work, or lack of it. If you know you've done all you can, then who cares what naysayers will say, the work will speak for itself. When you get 51/50s (crazy people) who start creating madness out of the ashes with no direction, and it relates to something you know very well, it's kinda easy to see why some here come with the fire behind them. I dunno, I just had several great beers with a good kick and a very hoppy taste, so take that as you will.

Apparently, they've been in defense mode ever since RTSC ever came out, and thus the crazies are out to defend it, because it needs defending and it won't stand on its own.

#31 VFTF1

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:31 AM

What's Robotech? Who's HG? What am I doing in this new thread?

Pete

#32 taksraven

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 06:58 AM

QUOTE (Rossi @ Jan 10 2010, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rather than operate under the false pretense of debate, why not call this thread what it really is for many of the contributors here? "HG and Robotech: Point and Laugh. Not that I'm pointing and laughing at anyone, of course. I truly enjoy both franchises. Also, the thread over at Robotech.com... Originally posted in good fun - no serious attempt to debate was made by the original poster. What it has become was inevitable, but what can you do??? I agree that some of the subject lines have been pretty funny though!!!


I think the thread should be renamed "The Robotech/Harmony Gold Pinata - pick up the stick and have a go"

Actually, we should have a competition of renaming this thread to a more honest and appropriate title?

How about it Azrael, got any cheap prizes we can win*?


Taksraven


(*We Can Win, geddit??)



#33 Funkenstein

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 07:53 AM

Cheap as in inexpensive, or cheap as in the quality of the limited edition Stealth Veritech?

#34 Moly_Sigang

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 08:58 AM

A competition, eh? Ok here's my entry: 'Let's Bitch About HG, Robotech and Those Stupid Fanboys' dry.gif

Edited by Moly_Sigang, 10 January 2010 - 09:16 AM.


#35 azrael

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 10:30 AM

QUOTE (taksraven @ Jan 10 2010, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the thread should be renamed "The Robotech/Harmony Gold Pinata - pick up the stick and have a go"

Actually, we should have a competition of renaming this thread to a more honest and appropriate title?

How about keeping this thread under 25 pages for the rest of the year. dry.gif






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