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HG and Robotech Debates


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#1 Dangard Ace

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 08:23 AM

Old one is in the Hall of Super Topics.

http://www.macrosswo...showtopic=29850

Original thread - http://www.macrosswo...p?showtopic=153

No one knows the exact details of the 1984 contract between Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko Productions because this contract has not been made public. However, we can infer what the contract entails from Harmony Gold's actions and inactions. I'll keep this first post updated with the most reliable information.

SDF Macross

On October 1st, 1982, Tatsunoko Productions asked for and received the worldwide (excluding Japan) film distribution and merchandising rights from Big West as compensation for their animation assistance with SDF Macross. On January 15th, 1984, Harmony Gold licensed, and later acquired, these same film distribution and merchandising rights from Tatsunoko. However, the intellectual property rights for SDF Macross still resides with Big West. What this means is that Harmony Gold can legally distribute the SDF Macross footage outside of Japan (ie: the AnimEigo and ADV Macross DVD's) and edit the footage at their discretion (ie: Robotech). However, they cannot create any new animation or movies using the SDF Macross characters and mecha because they do not have the intellectual property rights. Comic books and videogames are excluded as these fall under the category of merchandising rights.


Macross: Do You Remember Love

Harmony Gold also has the worldwide (excluding Japan) merchandising rights to Macross: Do You Remember Love. However, they do not have the film distribution rights nor the intellectual property rights to this movie. What this means is that Harmony Gold can legally license the distribution of DYRL merchandise (ie: Toynami's DYRL Super Posable toys) worldwide (excluding Japan). However, Harmony Gold cannot release DYRL on video, nor can they create any new animation or movies using the DYRL characters and mecha. Comic books and videogames are excluded as these fall under the category of merchandising rights.

On a related note, in 1988, Celebrity's Just For Kids released DYRL (as 'Macross in Clash of the Bionoids') in the USA under a license from Toho International Co. Ltd. In 1995, Best Film & Video Corp. released DYRL (as 'Superdimensional Fortress Macross') in the USA under a license from Big West. At Anime Central 2001, Robert Woodhead (of AnimEigo) was asked about DYRL and he said that nobody knows who owns the worldwide (excluding Japan) film distribution rights anymore.


Macross II, Macross Plus and Macross 7 Trash

The film distribution rights for Macross II and Macross Plus were licensed from Big West, by U.S. Renditions (1992) and Manga Entertainment (1995), for release in the USA without any involvement from Harmony Gold. Likewise, Macross 7 Trash was licensed from Big West, by GlÚnat (1998), for release in France without any involvement from Harmony Gold. In 2003, Tokyopop announced that they would release Macross 7 Trash in the USA under a license from Harmony Gold, however, the manga was never published and no official explanation was given.

Harmony Gold said that they were not involved with Macross II and Macross Plus because "no one was minding the store" at that time (source needed). The subsequent Tokyo District Court ruling determined that Tatsunoko Productions (and by extension Harmony Gold) did not have any copyrights to the Macross derivatives (ie: Macross II, Macross Plus), thereby rendering the "no one was minding the store" explanation moot.


The rest of the series

As for the rest of the Macross series (ie: Frontier, 7, et al), Harmony Gold only has certain rights to these. In 1999 and 2002, Harmony Gold tradedmarked the name 'Macross' in the USA, Canada, Germany, and the United Kingdom. What this means is that any series and merchandising featuring the 'Macross' trademark would have to compensate Harmony Gold for the use of that trademark in those respective countries. Harmony Gold also trademarked 'U.N. Spacy' in the USA and Canada. In the European Union, 'U.N. Spacy' was trademarked in November 2007 and is held by Yugenkaisya Suneast trading (aka Suneast Co.Ltd) from Tokyo, Japan.*


This is just my understanding of the current legal situation. It may not be 100% accurate, so any corrections are welcome.


Sources:

Harmony Gold et al v. FASA Corporation et al, 1996 WL 332689 (N.D.Ill.)

Macross 7 Trash published in France by GlÚnat - http://www.macrosswo...?...st&p=732684

“Fun at Acen” - http://groups.google...27c03d7fffd14ff

“Tatsunoko Wins Macross Lawsuit” - http://www.animenews...macross-lawsuit

“Macross Lawsuit” - http://www.animenews...macross-lawsuit

Big West statement - http://web.archive.o...ents/index.html

Loo, E.:”Separated at Birth”, Animerica, 2003, Vol.11, No.1, p. 47

"Tokyopop to Publish Macross 7 Trash Manga" - http://www.animenews...s-7-trash-manga

Tom Bateman states that Harmony Gold acquired DYRL merchandising rights - http://www.robotech....mp;pagenumber=3

Canada trademark filing - http://www.ic.gc.ca/...ntIndexOnPage=1

United Kingdom trademark filing - http://www.ipo.gov.u...sticnum=2204547

European Union trademark filing - http://oami.europa.e...1/003853926.htm

United States, Germany and Spain trademark filing - These websites do not allow direct linking and must be searched manually.


*A huge thanks to Bri for getting the trademark information!

#2 Duke Togo

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 09:55 AM

DA is on a roll, today!

#3 Dangard Ace

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 10:30 AM

QUOTE (Duke Togo @ Aug 12 2009, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
DA is on a roll, today!


DA doesn't want to do any "real" work today. ph34r.gif

#4 jenius

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 03:16 PM

As to the previous discussion on Protoculture, the only sensible thing for HG to do is to move as far away from Macross as rapidly as possible, including the hokey term protoculture... ya know, since it sounds like it has something to do with culture more than fuel. I have very different tastes from the average Robotech fan but I would have made Shadow Chronicles into an absolute blood bath. You know all those nameless soldiers who the Haydonites killed? That should have been Rick Hunter, Max, Miriya, Lisa, and just about every previous cast member the show ever focused on. Sure, leave a few old fan favorites out of it so they can pop up from time to time but everyone that has any licensing issues at all should have been slaughtered. I think the show should have also been created so it could have been a Mospeada 2 but that's another can of worms.

#5 Macross007

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 03:18 PM

robotech fanboys including the mods are trying to shut up Seto by calling a liar even if Seto is 110% regarding the legal mess :

http://www.robotech....e...&forumid=31

The mods (Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION aka the guy having troubles with his keyboard) are always saying they are doing their job for free but they are obviously on harmonazy gold payroll. dry.gif

#6 Moly_Sigang

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE (jenius @ Aug 12 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As to the previous discussion on Protoculture, the only sensible thing for HG to do is to move as far away from Macross as rapidly as possible, including the hokey term protoculture... ya know, since it sounds like it has something to do with culture more than fuel. I have very different tastes from the average Robotech fan but I would have made Shadow Chronicles into an absolute blood bath. You know all those nameless soldiers who the Haydonites killed? That should have been Rick Hunter, Max, Miriya, Lisa, and just about every previous cast member the show ever focused on. Sure, leave a few old fan favorites out of it so they can pop up from time to time but everyone that has any licensing issues at all should have been slaughtered. I think the show should have also been created so it could have been a Mospeada 2 but that's another can of worms.


I agree, HG should distance themselves from Macross. I think it would have been better if HG started over from scratch, use Mospeada as the base (since HG can pretty much do what they want with it) and have all their future animated series/OAV as sequels to Mospeada.

#7 Einherjar

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:20 PM

The series has rambled on about how great Protoculture (fuel) is all this time. What would the story of Robotech be without it?

#8 TheLoneWolf

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE (Seto Kaiba @ Aug 12 2009, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It looks like the idiots who own Battletech and MechWarrior now (Catalyst Game Labs) were aware of the whole Harmony Gold et. al. v. FASA Corp. et. al. case, but not the details of the settlement. So they went ahead with making new products containing the Macross designs, and got pretty far with it before Tommy Yune found out about it (I have it from reasonably reliable sources that he found out when a fan told him at a convention booth) and sicced the Harmony Gold company lawyers on 'em. Apparently Catalyst agreed not to use the designs without having to go to court over it, and pulled the art from their new products (presumably the Tomahawk-like design will be pulled from the pending MechWarrior game as well).


I had always suspected that Catalyst Game Labs / Piranha Games neglected to confer with Harmony Gold before announcing the return of the Unseen mecha from Macross. First, there was no news about this on robotech.com and no one from Harmony Gold had mentioned it during the conventions this summer. A cross-licensing deal would've been big news for Harmony Gold and I'd fully expect them to bask in the spotlight for as long as they could. Second, I didn't see a Harmony Gold or Tatsunoko copyright listed on any of these upcoming publications (which would need to be displayed for legal reasons), which led me to believe that Catalyst had foolishly left Harmony Gold out of the equation. So much for the Warhammer/Tomahawk appearing in the new Mechwarrior.

QUOTE
We reviewed documents, talked to a great many people, and spent time with some lawyers.


This is the part that really cracks me up. Harmony Gold et. al. v. FASA Corp. et. al. case affirmed Harmony Gold's merchandising rights to Macross. Furthermore, if you look up this case in Westlaw, you'll see that the crux of this case still has not been overturned. Something tells me that Catalyst's general counsel did zero research before giving Catalyst the green light.

Catalyst should be thankful to the person that gave Tommy Yune the heads up. Had Catalyst and Piranha actually begun to release merchandise that featured Macross mecha, they would've had to issue an embarassing recall once Harmony Gold found out. On top of that, Harmony Gold could've asked for punitive damages.

#9 Keith

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:39 PM

I nominate the subtitle for this new topic to be "Shadow Rising!"

#10 Einherjar

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:39 PM

QUOTE (TheLoneWolf @ Aug 12 2009, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Catalyst should be thankful to the person that gave Tommy Yune the heads up. Had Catalyst and Piranha actually begun to release merchandise that featured Macross mecha, they would've had to issue an embarassing recall once Harmony Gold found out. On top of that, Harmony Gold could've asked for punitive damages.


Should we be worried? Their response could motivate them enough to go further on other fronts.

Edited by Einherjar, 12 August 2009 - 05:40 PM.


#11 Keith

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:39 PM

QUOTE (Einherjar @ Aug 12 2009, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The series has rambled on about how great Protoculture (fuel) is all this time. What would the story of Robotech be without it?


Cohesive? smile.gif

#12 anime52k8

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:43 PM

QUOTE (Keith @ Aug 12 2009, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cohesive? smile.gif


I was going to say less shitty, but that works too. tongue.gif

#13 Einherjar

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Keith @ Aug 12 2009, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cohesive? smile.gif


How about redundant because you would be left with Macross or another clone of it. That's clearly the same ideal they want to achieve, but they still insist on spending more than necessary on their own knockoff to do it.

Edited by Einherjar, 12 August 2009 - 05:53 PM.


#14 taksraven

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 08:58 PM

QUOTE (Keith @ Aug 13 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I nominate the subtitle for this new topic to be "Shadow Rising!"



More like "Vapourware Rising". It'll probably come out the same time as Duke Nukem Forever!

Taksraven

#15 anime52k8

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 09:01 PM

QUOTE (taksraven @ Aug 12 2009, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
More like "Vapourware Rising". It'll probably come out the same time as Duke Nukem Forever!

Taksraven


that's too bad, I was hoping I'd get a chance to check both out before the universe collapses in on itself.

#16 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 09:13 PM

QUOTE (jenius @ Aug 12 2009, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know all those nameless soldiers who the Haydonites killed? That should have been Rick Hunter, Max, Miriya, Lisa, and just about every previous cast member the show ever focused on. Sure, leave a few old fan favorites out of it so they can pop up from time to time but everyone that has any licensing issues at all should have been slaughtered. I think the show should have also been created so it could have been a Mospeada 2 but that's another can of worms.

They're WAAAAAAAAAAY ahead of you there... almost all of the surviving Macross cast is either dead, incapacitated, or missing. The one or two who are left have been redesigned to be unrecognizable.

QUOTE (Macross007 @ Aug 12 2009, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
robotech fanboys including the mods are trying to shut up Seto by calling a liar even if Seto is 110% regarding the legal mess :

http://www.robotech....e...&forumid=31

The mods (Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION aka the guy having troubles with his keyboard) are always saying they are doing their job for free but they are obviously on harmonazy gold payroll. dry.gif

Just business as usual... what's more obnoxious than MEMO's ill-informed denials (he seems to think the archived court documents and official statement from Big West are fanmade for some utterly insane reason) is that he's allowing the worst of the RT fascist fanboys to troll freely since they kiss his ass.

To quote Spider Jerusalem... lies are news and the truth is obsolete.

#17 Einherjar

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 09:34 PM

QUOTE (Seto Kaiba @ Aug 12 2009, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just business as usual... what's more obnoxious than MEMO's ill-informed denials (he seems to think the archived court documents and official statement from Big West are fanmade for some utterly insane reason) is that he's allowing the worst of the RT fascist fanboys to troll freely since they kiss his ass.


What's Shaloom MEMO trying to achieve again?

EDIT - It's a joke.

Edited by Einherjar, 12 August 2009 - 09:50 PM.


#18 Gubaba

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 09:56 PM

QUOTE (Einherjar @ Aug 12 2009, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What's Shaloom MEMO trying to achieve again?

I'm glad I'm not the only one to make that connection (if I had been, it would've made me feel a little TOO self-absorbed... happy.gif )

Seto, unsurprisingly, I think you should cut your losses. You've got the facts on your side, but clearly, they don't care about facts. And then idiots like Pizza the Hutt call you a "proven liar," a few posts after you link to your sources...

Well, words fail me.

Get out of that place. It'll do you a world of good, and it'll take away their punching bag. If they want to indulge a persecution complex, let 'em do it without someone easily classified as a persecutor. They'll be turning on each other before you know it.

I know I've said all this before, and I know you've got a million reasons why they need to be "educated," but really...you're outnumbered, and you can't argue logic with people who don't care about being logical.

I mean, look at Pizza. He initially talked about Macross like it was some kind of illicit drug or perversion that he was going to "experiment" with. He tried it, he liked it, he peppered you with questions and was grateful for the answers...and now he's talking about how Frontier is a rip-off of BSG and Gundam, and insulting you personally.

Screw him. And screw the moderators for not reining him in.

Just leave them be. And hang out with people who actually APPRECIATE you instead. biggrin.gif

#19 jenius

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 10:01 PM

QUOTE (Seto Kaiba @ Aug 12 2009, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They're WAAAAAAAAAAY ahead of you there... almost all of the surviving Macross cast is either dead, incapacitated, or missing. The one or two who are left have been redesigned to be unrecognizable.


There is a HUGE difference between "absolute blood bath" and "no no no, they made it so those characters just weren't on screen!" Max and Miriya not having names, not being on screen, and being in limbo is no where near as satisfying as seeing a blue-haired commander having "M. Sterling" written on his craft get blown away after an intense battle. So no, I don't consider just avoiding the issue to be way ahead of resolving it.

#20 Macross007

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 10:01 PM

QUOTE (Einherjar @ Aug 13 2009, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What's Shaloom MEMO trying to achieve again?


I tell you what MEMO is trying to achieve. He is trying to fool robotech fans into thinking that HG is still in control of every aspects regarding the franchise. Like the way parents are lying to their children about Father Christmas existence. Just like Seto said ; people like MEMO want to live and BELIEVE in their fantasy world. When you are living in a fantasy world you don't care about the truth because the real world hurts. That's why you are living in a fantasy world in the first place. Also, it seems that MEMO is a big fan of the original Macross destroid designs. So he is playing the fanboy card because he don't want to see reimagined versions of those designs for a POSSIBLE robotech LAM.

Edited by Macross007, 12 August 2009 - 10:05 PM.


#21 Einherjar

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 10:16 PM

QUOTE (Macross007 @ Aug 12 2009, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I tell you what MEMO is trying to achieve. He is trying to fool robotech fans into thinking that HG is still in control of every aspects regarding the franchise. Like the way parents are lying to their children about Father Christmas existence. Just like Seto said ; people like MEMO want to live and BELIEVE in their fantasy world. When you are living in a fantasy world you don't care about the truth because the real world hurts. That's why you are living in a fantasy world in the first place. Also, it seems that MEMO is a big fan of the original Macross destroid designs. So he is playing the fanboy card because he don't want to see reimagined versions of those designs for a POSSIBLE robotech LAM.


Big whoop, the fandom has too many people like that from all extremes that it's insane. HG even hired these kind of people for the current crew. What's worse is that they're encouraging this megalomania. As for MEMO, he's really living it up for the fandom just like all the others that came and went before him.

#22 Jasonc

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 11:26 PM

QUOTE
robotech fanboys including the mods are trying to shut up Seto by calling a liar even if Seto is 110% regarding the legal mess :

http://www.robotech....e...&forumid=31

The mods (Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION aka the guy having troubles with his keyboard) are always saying they are doing their job for free but they are obviously on harmonazy gold payroll.


In response to all the hoopla over on rt.com, Seto dousing the threads with facts and irrefutable truths helps prove the points that we've all made. I think it maybe easy to interpret those arguing with Seto in that thread as simply ignorant, not in a derogatory way. Simply, they just don't understand what intellectual property means, and probably just simplify the rulings and translate it wrong. Court rulings are often complicated, and full of $0.25 words. The real problem is that you have a bunch of RT fans that (not intended to attack anyone) have $0.05 vocabulary. What's really sad is those that truly understand the rulings, but choose to believe the hype. Either way, Seto has proven not to be a punching bag, but moreso a help to those that seek help, and an educator on their forums. If that's what they don't want, there are always a few that appreciate it.

As far as continuing the argument though, it seems more like they are trying to bait you. Why else would they let people make personal attacks, and not say anything, and let it go with free reign? It's been a practice done before over there. If you want to keep your account over there, just be careful not to engage in the game.


Oh, and to answer the question, they are not on the payroll, they work for the ever so vital useless info about Shadow Rising and the RLAM.


#23 Einherjar

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE (Jasonc @ Aug 13 2009, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, and to answer the question, they are not on the payroll, they work for the ever so vital useless info about Shadow Rising and the RLAM.


I think MEMO was acknowledged once by the crew in the Shadow Chronicles end credits for his efforts. Maybe that is what motivates him now, that it really means something.

Edited by Einherjar, 12 August 2009 - 11:40 PM.


#24 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 12:23 AM

Whoops-a-daisy... posted a half-finished reply.

Edited by Seto Kaiba, 13 August 2009 - 12:23 AM.


#25 Seto Kaiba

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 12:50 AM

I'm gonna try to keep my reply here short, since my hands hurt like blazes after being scraped and smashed and gnawed on by a rabbit while helping my brother move into his room at the frat house today.


QUOTE (Gubaba @ Aug 13 2009, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seto, unsurprisingly, I think you should cut your losses. You've got the facts on your side, but clearly, they don't care about facts. And then idiots like Pizza the Hutt call you a "proven liar," a few posts after you link to your sources...

Well, words fail me.

Get out of that place. It'll do you a world of good, and it'll take away their punching bag. If they want to indulge a persecution complex, let 'em do it without someone easily classified as a persecutor. They'll be turning on each other before you know it.

Yeah, I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment... these days, I only go there when someone points out a thread of interest or a question that falls under one or more of my particular areas of expertise. Of late, I just seem to be on the target list of some of the more deluded fanboys who just can't accept simple truths. They've taken to hounding me across multiple sites, and get smacked down by the moderators of those sites most of the time.

It'd be amusing if it weren't so pathetic... and it is sorely tempting to simply say "to hell with it all" and let them run the community there into the ground.


QUOTE (Gubaba @ Aug 13 2009, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I mean, look at Pizza. He initially talked about Macross like it was some kind of illicit drug or perversion that he was going to "experiment" with. He tried it, he liked it, he peppered you with questions and was grateful for the answers...and now he's talking about how Frontier is a rip-off of BSG and Gundam, and insulting you personally.

A few of the more reasonable RT fans and I were actually talking about that in a chat not too long ago. Pizza's problem with me doesn't even really seem to be Macross-related. He's got his nose out of joint because I and a bunch of other people took him to task for his horribly bigoted behavior on RobotechX (he's a HUGE homophobe, and took great offense to a gay character being in Macross Frontier), and he's been hounding me for revenge ever since. I think that's probably at least 90% of why he's acting like such a twit lately. He's got big issues with cultural context too...

Pizza the Hutt had this to say on Robotech.com:
QUOTE
And Seto,please tell your friend Gubaba and others that I do like Macross (well some things) and just because we hate eachother til the pits of Hell does not mean I will hate Macross animes,I still like Macross Plus,DYRL and some parts of Frontier.No one gave me the idea that frontier ripped off battlestar galactica,it just occured to me,a cylon dies and its program goes to another body,and the convoy part.And I use to watch gundam too.ANd frontier could be better without the "hentai" scence (cellphone locker vibrator,panties vajra hopping,grabbing Ranka's chest and exposing her at the hosipital) so I like MAcross..just not the fans due to the evil they radiate.




QUOTE ( @ Aug 13 2009, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just leave them be. And hang out with people who actually APPRECIATE you instead. biggrin.gif

That's the thing... there are a LOT of people on Robotech.com who do appreciate my input and openly seek my help and involvement with various projects and threads. Yeah, I know the Macross fanbase (or at least part of it) appreciates my work on Macross II, but there're people there who appreciate what I do as well.

It doesn't feel right to cut a bunch of good people loose just to spite one or two trolls.


QUOTE (Macross007 @ Aug 13 2009, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I tell you what MEMO is trying to achieve. He is trying to fool robotech fans into thinking that HG is still in control of every aspects regarding the franchise.

Just like Seto said ; people like MEMO want to live and BELIEVE in their fantasy world. When you are living in a fantasy world you don't care about the truth because the real world hurts. That's why you are living in a fantasy world in the first place. Also, it seems that MEMO is a big fan of the original Macross destroid designs. So he is playing the fanboy card because he don't want to see reimagined versions of those designs for a POSSIBLE robotech LAM.

That's EXACTLY what MEMO is trying to accomplish. He's been trying his hardest to take what little evidence he can muster and twist it to support the unsupportable. MEMO, Pizza, and sanman are examples of that tiny lunatic fringe of the fanbase who have just been so devoted to the franchise for so long, that they've lost their objectivity completely and don't want to believe their waiting and efforts have been a waste.

They don't want to believe that Harmony Gold can't do whatever it wants with Robotech... because it doesn't bode well for Robotech's future... so they simply deny the truth so they can go on believing that their hideous, malformed goose of a franchise may one day lay a golden egg.

QUOTE (Jasonc @ Aug 13 2009, 03:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In response to all the hoopla over on rt.com, Seto dousing the threads with facts and irrefutable truths helps prove the points that we've all made. I think it maybe easy to interpret those arguing with Seto in that thread as simply ignorant, not in a derogatory way.

The best way to deal with denial-based arguments like MEMO's is to crush it under the sheer, unrelenting weight of the facts. Once it comes out that they have virtually no evidence to support their claims, or that their arguments are based on half-truths and misunderstandings, they usually shut up pretty fast.

It's not that MEMO doesn't understand the situation, it's that he doesn't want to understand the situation. If he accepts the truth, then he has to also accept that Robotech is, for all practical purposes, doomed... because the most popular saga is off-limits for future movies and TV shows.

#26 Bri

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:36 AM

QUOTE (Seto Kaiba @ Aug 13 2009, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's EXACTLY what MEMO is trying to accomplish. He's been trying his hardest to take what little evidence he can muster and twist it to support the unsupportable. MEMO, Pizza, and sanman are examples of that tiny lunatic fringe of the fanbase who have just been so devoted to the franchise for so long, that they've lost their objectivity completely and don't want to believe their waiting and efforts have been a waste.

They don't want to believe that Harmony Gold can't do whatever it wants with Robotech... because it doesn't bode well for Robotech's future... so they simply deny the truth so they can go on believing that their hideous, malformed goose of a franchise may one day lay a golden egg.

It's not that MEMO doesn't understand the situation, it's that he doesn't want to understand the situation. If he accepts the truth, then he has to also accept that Robotech is, for all practical purposes, doomed... because the most popular saga is off-limits for future movies and TV shows.


In fairness Robotech doesn't have much of a past either. HG has not been able to produce any spin-off or sequel worth mentioning since Macek's original 85 episode series. In that respect Robotech fans suffer as much from their actions as the Macross fan base. As you said, the only future that franchise has is if an outsider like WB takes control in the creative department.

Viewing the thread at RT.com was a rather unsettling experience, a few posters in there I'd file under the damaged goods department. I will take your word for it that the average poster of the RT-boards is far saner, but if your able to stay calm at all that garbage they were spewing at you then you missed a calling as a special needs teacher.

Edited by Bri, 13 August 2009 - 01:58 AM.


#27 Gubaba

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:16 AM

QUOTE (Seto Kaiba @ Aug 13 2009, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm gonna try to keep my reply here short, since my hands hurt like blazes after being scraped and smashed and gnawed on by a rabbit while helping my brother move into his room at the frat house today.

I'm not EVEN gonna ask about the rabbit...I hope your hand heals quickly, though. smile.gif



QUOTE (Seto Kaiba @ Aug 13 2009, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A few of the more reasonable RT fans and I were actually talking about that in a chat not too long ago. Pizza's problem with me doesn't even really seem to be Macross-related. He's got his nose out of joint because I and a bunch of other people took him to task for his horribly bigoted behavior on RobotechX (he's a HUGE homophobe, and took great offense to a gay character being in Macross Frontier), and he's been hounding me for revenge ever since. I think that's probably at least 90% of why he's acting like such a twit lately. He's got big issues with cultural context too...

He hates you because he hates BOBBY? Again, words fail me.

QUOTE (Seto Kaiba @ Aug 13 2009, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pizza the Hutt had this to say on Robotech.com:

He misses the point. And why can't he tell me himself? Is he a member here?

Dammit, this is all a conspiracy to get me to join RT.com, isn't it?

QUOTE (Bri @ Aug 13 2009, 03:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In fairness Robotech doesn't have much of a past either. HG has not been able to produce any spin-off or sequel worth mentioning since Macek's original 85 episode series. In that respect Robotech fans suffer as much from their actions as the Macross fan base. As you said, the only future that franchise has is if an outsider like WB takes control in the creative department.

Viewing the thread at RT.com was a rather unsettling experience, a few posters in there I'd file under the damaged goods department. I will take your word for it that the average poster of the RT-boards is far saner, but if your able to stay calm at all that garbage they were spewing at you then you missed a calling as a special needs teacher.

Well said. biggrin.gif

#28 VFTF1

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:43 AM

QUOTE
ANd frontier could be better without the "hentai" scence


blink.gif

And here I was thinking Macross Frontier would have been better WITH some Hentai scenes...

Oh well...

interesting how different people are smile.gif

Pete



#29 TheLoneWolf

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 07:27 AM

QUOTE (Einherjar @ Aug 12 2009, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Should we be worried? Their response could motivate them enough to go further on other fronts.


Worried about Harmony Gold becoming more aggressive? I doubt it. From the blog post on Catalyst's site, they say that Harmony Gold was cool with their mistake. While Harmony Gold has made some tremendous publicity blunders in the past, I don't believe they're this evil corporation that some people make them out to be.

#30 Einherjar

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:11 AM

QUOTE (TheLoneWolf @ Aug 13 2009, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Worried about Harmony Gold becoming more aggressive? I doubt it. From the blog post on Catalyst's site, they say that Harmony Gold was cool with their mistake. While Harmony Gold has made some tremendous publicity blunders in the past, I don't believe they're this evil corporation that some people make them out to be.


You could say this is technically the first time someone actually challenged all the legal nonsense HG does have or claim to have recently, in a very uncoordinated way and unknowingly. Like what we've been brainstorming here before, it's like if someone decides to pay advertising space in a magazine promoting a DYRL release or any other Macross material. No one really knows the legal situation with that one, but it could cause HG enough anxiety to go overboard to protect their own precious series.

Remember, they want to stay relevant.

Edited by Einherjar, 13 August 2009 - 08:14 AM.


#31 Ginrai

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:55 AM

QUOTE (Bri @ Aug 13 2009, 03:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Viewing the thread at RT.com was a rather unsettling experience, a few posters in there I'd file under the damaged goods department.


Welcome to the Internet. Perhaps you've noticed several MW posters fit the same profile?

#32 jenius

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:30 AM

I think HG is seriously dumb if they don't try to get their Macross mecha into a Battletech game. Both franchises should work together to be relevant... they need all the help they can get. Just have one of the game's opening ads be an HG logo and have it say "A Thank You to HG for the use of several mecha from the hit anime ROBOTECH." Bam, some advertising for HG and Robotech and the Battletech fans get to play those old designs.

#33 Einherjar

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 11:29 AM

QUOTE (jenius @ Aug 13 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think HG is seriously dumb if they don't try to get their Macross mecha into a Battletech game. Both franchises should work together to be relevant... they need all the help they can get. Just have one of the game's opening ads be an HG logo and have it say "A Thank You to HG for the use of several mecha from the hit anime ROBOTECH." Bam, some advertising for HG and Robotech and the Battletech fans get to play those old designs.


If HG doesn't want to play fair with BW why would they treat Battletech any better? They apparently want to make enemies out of anyone achieving success which they also want to be entitled to. Screw everyone else, they're looking out for only themselves these days.

Just like with BW, maybe HG will make an example of them and ask for an ungodly amount from them just to use the unseen.

Edited by Einherjar, 13 August 2009 - 11:30 AM.


#34 Freiflug88

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:06 PM

QUOTE (jenius @ Aug 12 2009, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As to the previous discussion on Protoculture, the only sensible thing for HG to do is to move as far away from Macross as rapidly as possible, including the hokey term protoculture... ya know, since it sounds like it has something to do with culture more than fuel.


I think they should just drop the biofuel idea entirely and focus more on the advance "Robotechnology" that is actually in the name of the franchise. Besides everyone sees conflicts over oil and other nonrenewable resources happening all over the world all the time, who wants to see a big hollywood that has the entire galaxy fighting to the death over the most efficient and renewable power source that literally multiplies when grown on trees.

QUOTE (jenius @ Aug 13 2009, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think HG is seriously dumb if they don't try to get their Macross mecha into a Battletech game. Both franchises should work together to be relevant... they need all the help they can get. Just have one of the game's opening ads be an HG logo and have it say "A Thank You to HG for the use of several mecha from the hit anime ROBOTECH." Bam, some advertising for HG and Robotech and the Battletech fans get to play those old designs.


If HG can really only use the Macross mecha for repackaged toys and can't make any Robotech Battlecry sequels the last thing they are going to want to see is another franchise putting the Macross mecha under the spotlight, especially when their now hoping to renew Robotech with the RLAM.

#35 jenius

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 02:34 PM

QUOTE
If HG doesn't want to play fair with BW why would they treat Battletech any better?
These days it's BW who refuses to play with HG. Not that I blame them after Tats' animation land grab and HG's demands years ago.
QUOTE
They apparently want to make enemies out of anyone achieving success which they also want to be entitled to.

To be fair, it's established everywhere now that HG IS entitled to merchandising rights to Macross and Battletech never was. HG is totally in the right to tell the BT folks to stop... I just don't think it makes business sense.
QUOTE
Screw everyone else, they're looking out for only themselves these days. Just like with BW, maybe HG will make an example of them and ask for an ungodly amount from them just to use the unseen.

That's the thing though, charging an ungodly amount that will never be paid by a developer who thought the designs were free isn't going to get either the developer or HG anywhere. If HG said "Do as you will, just give us a big friggin' ad" then that should do it. OR, what might be a much better way of doing things, make the Unseens paid for downloadable content and let HG just get a cut from the downloads rather than entire game sales.








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