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HG and Robotech Debates, ep. 8


azrael

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Where are these many robotech fans that want to incorporate anything macross into robotech that you speak of ? Some hard data would be useful don't you think ?

In any case whatever the fans want, BW/Studio Nue will never grant so its a dead issue anyway isn't it ?

From a Robotech perspective, f*ck Macross, f*uck Southern Cross and f*uck Mospeada. All hail to protoculture instead.

Unfortunately Tommy and the thinking brains (are there any left at HG ? :unsure: ) can't grasp the reality.

I think a lot of Robotech fans do secretly want to incorporate all of Macross into Robotech for two very important reasons. 1) Kawamori's designs are distinctive and people don't want to let them go. I personally come here and check out Macross stuff purely for his designs. I'm not terribly interested/thrilled in the stories/characters at all. 2) Macross actually has new products being released. If the original was stolen when we had nothing, why not keep nicking pieces of the same work because HG still isn't providing anything. I'm not sure either of these things are indicative of a group of people who actually want to keep "stealing" things as much as it is a sort of perverse wishful thinking for some visual and story consistency like what Macross has.

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Well HG actually has the rights to mooch Southern Cross and Mospeada all they want curtesy of Tatsunoko, and the Macross animation as well.

If Tatsunoko actually cared about the way Southern Cross, Macross and Mospeada were treated in the west they would recind the license but they don't. Who is to blame for this ? The frakkING JAPANESE. Its not as if HG somehow fraked the japanese over. The japanese made a contract that actually gave HG the rights that people now deem are illegal. The root cause of this stems in japan not in the us.

Rebooting a franchise is easy, its done all the time. The only problem is understanding what to throw away and what to keep (and in robotech's case its throwing away 99% and keeping only the protoculture aspect) and investing a lot of money in coming up with new art concepts that don't smell like recycled 30 year old animation. HG just doesn't have the @@ to carry a reboot through plain and simple and they won't as long as Tatsunoko continues to license them the various properties.

Ah. I see the problem.

You're assuming Tatsunoko actually CARES about what happens to their properties outside Japan.

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I think a lot of Robotech fans do secretly want to incorporate all of Macross into Robotech for two very important reasons. 1) Kawamori's designs are distinctive and people don't want to let them go. I personally come here and check out Macross stuff purely for his designs. I'm not terribly interested/thrilled in the stories/characters at all.

Kawamori in not the end all to mechanical designs. Macross II didn't have Kawamori on board and the Valkyries were just as breath taking as those of Macross.

So Kawamori as good as he is, he is not a god. And other mechanical designers can come up with concepts just as good or better than his.

As to your liking only the mechanical designs, good for you, but most people love the Macross franchise on multiple levels not just because of the valkyries.

2) Macross actually has new products being released. If the original was stolen when we had nothing, why not keep nicking pieces of the same work because HG still isn't providing anything. I'm not sure either of these things are indicative of a group of people who actually want to keep "stealing" things as much as it is a sort of perverse wishful thinking for some visual and story consistency like what Macross has.

The original was never stolen for christ sake. HG had the rights through Tatsunoko (on the animation and just the animation) and Tatsunoko never stole those rights from BW/Studio. In fact those specific rights were given to Tatsunoko as compensation for coming and helping with the animation of Macross. Ok that Robotech fans can be delusional, but when Macross fans spout such idiocies you're being far more delusional.

Robotech fans want more robotech. Many robotech fans equate robotech with macross and what they want in reality is more macross but that is not going to happen thanks to HG f*cking over BW/Studio Nue by trademarking Macross, UN Spacy and the Un Spacy symbol in most countries.

Some robotech fans want more robotech but not a mospeada sequel aka Mospeada II The Shadow Chronicles. Unfortunately HG can't deliver on any project so here we are.

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Still...you're blaming an ENTIRE RACE ("the Japanese") for the way ONE COMPANY decides to do business.

There's a word for that, isn't there...?

Considering he corrected himself after the fact and used Tatsunoko I think the word is careless.

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@ Gubaba : you should learn to be more flexible. Within the context of the original post it is obvious that I'm referring to Tatsunoko.

Now if you're trying to build a case out of nothing be my guest. But you'll be going straight to my ignore list.

Maybe "you, Cobra" should stop being such a racist!

And of course, by "you, Cobra," I mean a ton of Robotech fans. Be more flexible!

Anyway, Mommar said you corrected yourself. What was he referring to?

Edited by Gubaba
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His post still says...

,

does it not?

How did he "correct himself" after being totally racist the first time 'round?

You quoted him responding about Tatsunoko not caring.

I said Tatsunoko doesn't give a damn how the properties are managed outside japan.

Also, Japanese is a nationality not a race. He'd have to be blaming Asians for not caring in order for it to be racist.

Edited by Mommar
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You quoted him responding about Tatsunoko not caring.

Also, Japanese is a nationality not a race. He'd have to be blaming Asians for not caring in order for it to be racist.

Huh? I don't get your logic here...so blaming everyone in a CONTINENT is racist, but blaming everyone in a COUNTRY isn't...?

So, for example, saying, "Damn Irish!" isn't racist, but saying "Damn Europeans!" is? By what standard?

Edited by Gubaba
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Irish are Caucasian. If you said "Damn Whites!" you'd be recist. Saying "Damn Irish" is prejudice... but not racist.

Also, he didn't say "Damn Japanese" or "Damn Asians" he said the Japanese are to blame and then followed up saying Tatsunoko are to blame.

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Irish are Caucasian. If you said "Damn Whites!" you'd be recist. Saying "Damn Irish" is prejudice... but not racist.

Also, he didn't say "Damn Japanese" or "Damn Asians" he said the Japanese are to blame and then followed up saying Tatsunoko are to blame.

No, he said the "frakkING JAPANESE" are to blame.

I'd argue that the "frakkING JAPANESE" also CREATED the show in the first place.

I'd also argue that they aren't "frakkING" at all.

Damn New Mexicans...

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The UN Spacy symbol is included in the designs that BW/SN retain (Tougou Gun Emblem), as far as I know. HG thinks they were being clever by putting three of them together with a Mars Base symbol but in reality they're only making themselves feel better. You can put together 99999999999 of them and it's still that design.

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Where are these many robotech fans that want to incorporate anything macross into robotech that you speak of ? Some hard data would be useful don't you think ?

http://sites.google....h/proto-culture - Protoculture, the civilization

http://sites.google..../robotech/maruk - The Marduk

http://www.robotechr.../rpg/mecha.html

Examples:

http://www.robotechr...aedi%20Pod.html - Variable Glaug from a videogame

http://www.robotechr...con/yvf_29.html - VF 19 to 21, Macross Plus

http://www.robotechr...vf_1e/ve_1.html - Elintseeker, DYRL

A lot more existed before geocities and angelfire shut down.

And another potent kick in the nuts:

VF-SDP "Kawamori" - Stampede Valkyrie from a videogame

So yes, it has been, and may continue to be, a regular problem.

Edited by Einherjar
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Where are these many robotech fans that want to incorporate anything macross into robotech that you speak of ? Some hard data would be useful don't you think ?

In any case whatever the fans want, BW/Studio Nue will never grant so its a dead issue anyway isn't it ?

From a Robotech perspective, f*ck Macross, f*uck Southern Cross and f*uck Mospeada. All hail to protoculture instead.

Unfortunately Tommy and the thinking brains (are there any left at HG ? :unsure: ) can't grasp the reality.

Let me ask you a question...do you ever search anything on the internet, look at youtube, or do anything like that? Fans that want to incorporate anything Macross into Robotech are all around the net. I find it ironic that the people whom ask for "hard data" and facts, are either too ignorant, or too damn lazy to do their own searching. Do you even know what you mean by "hard data"? I don't think you do, or you would've just said "facts". I'm sure you can at least look that up in the meantime after reading this.

Well if only one series has to be raped let it be Macross.

Why taint masterpieces such as Eureka 7, Code Geass or gasp Gurren Lagann ? :D

Nothing personal, but I wish we had "Stupidest Comment" awards. You'd be a shoe-in about now.

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Lol, Macross II's designs were just as good as Kawamori designs? They were angular derivatives, zero originality, and then the fugly Metal Siren mess...

+1

While I like the designs, they are definitely drawn from the VF-1. You can especially see it in the hea design of the VF-2JA, and the 2SS. While Kawamori was not involved, they certainly wanted to give the impression that he was, maybe because he is that good.

Edited by Jasonc
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Let me ask you a question...do you ever search anything on the internet, look at youtube, or do anything like that? Fans that want to incorporate anything Macross into Robotech are all around the net. I find it ironic that the people whom ask for "hard data" and facts, are either too ignorant, or too damn lazy to do their own searching. Do you even know what you mean by "hard data"? I don't think you do, or you would've just said "facts". I'm sure you can at least look that up in the meantime after reading this.

Jason, I insist...

post-2668-0-05093900-1330389724_thumb.jpg

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Jason, I insist...

As the saying goes, if "common sense" is so common, why is it so few have it? I have no problems for people asking for some links as referrence, or to simply give examples, but when people start with the "Back up your claim", or "Do you have hard data to back that up" type of sh!t, it usually goes with an idiotic sense of entitlement, like the burden of proof and the entire argument hangs on making them a believer. On separate occassions, I've run into this in some of the Robotech camp, and it comes down to this...it's not my responsibility to educate them, nor is it my "burden" of proof. If someone wants to be that diluded into thinking that I say things just for their belief, I simply laugh. The response usually is, "go do some research, and try to converse when you're not so much a dumb@ss."
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Yes there are people who want all of Macross in Robotech in some form of another and yes there are those who hate Robotech for the simple fact that it is Robotech. That being said there are also a majority (though prob not as vocal) who actually like both very much. As a fan of both I can say yeah the mech designs of Macross are superior but I can also say I really enjoy the design used in Macross II. Everyone is entitles to an opinion. Just because people do not agree does not make one or the other right/wrong.

As a Robotech fan I would like to see them do their own thing with their own designs and as a Macross fan I would love to see it come stateside as I am not a fan of subs. Hg's handling of RT is a mess yes but in many ways the support they get from Tastunoko seems minimal as well. In the TSC art book, a lot of the pics of Tatsu staff seem like they were unhappy. Whether it is who they were working with (see HG) or just didn't even want to bother, we will never know but bashing one franchise or the others just because you like one more is kind of pointless.

I may very well be wrong but for as many people that seem to like Macross/Robotech/Both, just as many do but aren't nearly as vocal or fanatic as some people and the respective fandoms make them out to be as a whole.

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Where are these many robotech fans that want to incorporate anything macross into robotech that you speak of ? Some hard data would be useful don't you think ? [...]

Are you kidding? So you’ve never seen anything like these:

Robotech ZERO

Robotech DYRL

Edited by Reïvaj
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Kawamori in not the end all to mechanical designs. Macross II didn't have Kawamori on board and the Valkyries were just as breath taking as those of Macross.

So Kawamori as good as he is, he is not a god. And other mechanical designers can come up with concepts just as good or better than his.

One thing can be certain though, Tommy Yune is sure as hell no Kawamori, or anyone who made careers out of designing mechas before and after, despite being given that and more responsibilities that both requires it and sometimes using Kawamori's, and others, designs due to legal rights. Carl Macek was worse.

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