Robotech Academy - You want a new Robotech series...?

[JB0]

You know, I was gonna make a sarcastic comment about you guys not having the heart to reach into your wallets and help grant Carl's dying wish. But then I decided that was probably beyond the bounds of good taste, even in context.

Then the last update happened and HG asked us all to have the heart to reach into our wallets and grant Carl's dying wish.

They just keeps digging that hole a little deeper, don't they?

[Seto Kaiba]

You know, I was gonna make a sarcastic comment about you guys not having the heart to reach into your wallets and help grant Carl's dying wish. But then I decided that was probably beyond the bounds of good taste, even in context.

Then the last update happened and HG asked us all to have the heart to reach into our wallets and grant Carl's dying wish.

I'm straight-up nauseated by the way Harmony Gold is honestly hoping they'll be able to surf Carl's coffin to success. I didn't have much use for the man when he was alive, and I'm not a big believer in a due to the dead, but the way they're expecting the fans to empty their bank accounts "for Carl" is crossing the line twice.

They just keeps digging that hole a little deeper, don't they?

The old saying goes that when one finds oneself in a hole, the first thing one should do is to stop digging. Harmony Gold seems to be of the opinion that, upon finding themselves in a VERY deep hole, digging to China is easier than putting the shovel down and climbing out.

[azrael]

Then the last update happened and HG asked us all to have the heart to reach into our wallets and grant Carl's dying wish.

They just keeps digging that hole a little deeper, don't they?

If by digging deep into our wallets means everyone donating $10,000, then sure. Like everyone has $10,000 lying around doing nothing. Hell, the American Cancer Society is lucky if to get $100 out me.

[terry the lone wolf]

Looks like original Megarodo + Breast Fighter.

breast fighter.PNG

megarodo.PNG

2003fced081355b43de1a0856382503a_large-001.jpg

I see a tad of Gundam with a smidgen of Yamato in the Megaroad/Lode designs..

[Mr March]

I think what I find interesting about this whole kickstarter is the level of effort expended to avoid producing a good and/or desired product. I suppose people more familiar with Robotech and Harmony Gold than I may not see this as revelatory. To me, I'm amazed by the lack of merit or appeal in any part of the Robotech Academy promotion. In point of fact, the only major advertising/marketing push for this kickstarter is that it features "Robotech" in the name.

The biggest modern entertainment properties are sold on brands because the brand is strong enough to sell itself (Star Wars, Star Trek, etc). When the brand isn't strong enough to sell itself, selling requires a hook.

You can sell a good idea, like Inception

You can sell attractive style, like Mad Men

You can sell social relevance, like Avatar

You can sell a male power fantasy, like James Bond

Now look at the Robotech brand, the brand we are told is supposed to sell. Except, it's not selling. A history of failed sequels, one finished sequel that never made mark financially or critically, a struggling kickstarter, etc. So if the brand isn't selling, what is the hook? There is no publically shared belief, passion or confidence in Robotech Academy coming from anyone in Harmony Gold. No one is selling the actual Robotech Academy idea, the Robotech Academy story, the Robotech Academy style, etc. Every marketing attempt in this kickstarter is designed to sell Robotech Academy for any reason other than Robotech Academy itself...

An attempt to sell nostalgia...

An attempt to sell as if it was "Carl Macek's vision"...

An attempt to sell the "Enemy Spy" donation tier...

An attempt to sell by begging for money from your social circles...

Robotech Academy is good because it has Robotech in the name, therefore Robotech Academy is good...LOL-what? It never occurs to the folks making Robotech Academy that maybe they should sell a good idea, or sell a style people want, or sell some kind of relevance to a modern audience, or sell...something. But there's nothing there. You're meant to accept this kickstarter because, well "reasons". Because, well "Robotech".

Success or fail, I'm interested to see what happens with this kickstarter just for the way it's trying to be sold.

[CoreyD]

Very well said, Mr March.

[Duke Togo]

Well, I'm pretty sure Bond movies are way beyond needing a hook at this point, outside of the franchise itself. But yeah, that's pretty much what's wrong with this KS.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Macross sells. They should've named it Macross Academy. And put it under a shell company called Big East.

[coronadlux]

So, what they want is for my friends, family, and myself to dig into our wallets and shell out some hard earned cash. Let's put it at an even $40 each.

With the economy the it has been the last few years, and the unemployment a lot of people have struggled through (myself included) they expect us to work 5 and a half hours (at the 7.25 federal minimum) to fund a pilot?

Can't they say that if half is funded, HG will fund the other half or something. Even this guy had better imagination...

[Seto Kaiba]

Robotech Academy is good because it has Robotech in the name, therefore Robotech Academy is good...LOL-what? It never occurs to the folks making Robotech Academy that maybe they should sell a good idea, or sell a style people want, or sell some kind of relevance to a modern audience, or sell...something. But there's nothing there. You're meant to accept this kickstarter because, well "reasons". Because, well "Robotech".

Success or fail, I'm interested to see what happens with this kickstarter just for the way it's trying to be sold.

Well, Harmony Gold's sunk a lot of time and energy over the last fourteen years into trying to condition Robotech fans to blindly and obediently buy anything and everything they arbitrarily slap the word "Robotech" on. They spent a bunch of time telling an assortment of hilariously transparent lies about Macross and the other original shows, and quietly endorsed the jackassery that their volunteer moderators and the stooges of those moderators were perpetrating by podcast. They worked damn hard to put the Robotech fans in an adversarial relationship with anime hobbyists in general and Macross fans in particular to maintain that captive audience of theirs.

From the last mass-banning of their critics after Shadow Chronicles came out to the start of the Robotech Academy Kickstarter, things were looking like they'd actually succeeded. It seemed like Robotech fans were so desperate for something, ANYTHING with the Robotech name on it, that they'd buy garbage like Robotech: Love Live Alive or the crossover with Voltron and praise it like it was something with actual artistic integrity.

That's why the large-scale mutinous muttering and widespread acrimony over the Robotech Academy Kickstarter came as such a profound shock. We're so used to Robotech fans desperately grasping at straws to find something praiseworthy about whatever laughably feeble mess Harmony Gold kicked out the door last that having them suddenly announce "No, this is rubbish and we're not going to support it or even pretend otherwise" was about the last thing anyone would've expected... never mind how the KS's comments section has devolved into a borderline flame war over the Macross embargo issue.

[CoreyD]

Well, once you've banned all dissenters, it's pretty easy to delude yourself into thinking a certain way when all that's left are yes-men.

[TangledThorns]

I think it would help HG's community if they updated their site. It's looked the same for over 10 years! Not a HG hate post, just a thought.

[technoblue]

I think Tom Bateman was right with what he insinuated a couple pages back: We all underestimated the fans.

Although humorous, it's also sad in a way to see HG running into the same wall---banking on nostalgia and a niche brand---and then failing. Could Robotech become revitalized like other 1980s properties? Maybe. However, I agree that the current tactics need to change dramatically.

Edited July 23, 2014 by technoblue

[Seto Kaiba]

I think it would help HG's community if they updated their site. It's looked the same for over 10 years! Not a HG hate post, just a thought.

Update it for who? They've banned almost everyone who ever had an account on there, and most of the people who didn't get the banhammer got sick of their sh*t and left of their own accord. (It's so bad there that even Harmony Gold's high propagandist Kevin McKeever had to admit the only part of the site the higher-ups care about is the store, the rest is not worth spending money on, as their view reportedly goes.)

I think Tom Bateman was right with what he insinuated a couple pages back: We all underestimated the fans.

Although humorous, it's also sad in a way to see HG running into the same wall---banking on nostalgia and a niche brand---and then failing. Could Robotech become revitalized like other 1980s properties? Maybe. However, I agree that the current tactics need to change dramatically.

Absolutely. We made, ironically enough, the exact same assumption about Robotech fans that Harmony Gold did... that they're no better than magpies with wallets, and live with a compulsion to collect anything with the word "Robotech" on it. Many of 'em bucked that particular stereotype when Robotech Academy was announced, though even the people on the Kickstarter have pointed some fingers at the "200 fans who'll buy anything". Some of them have lived down to our expectations, however.

To me, there's nothing sad about Harmony Gold's persistent failure to accept reality. It was sad the first time they got carried away with their enthusiasm and misguided belief that they were clever and ran full-tilt into the brick wall of their own incompetence. Four or five further encounters with the exact same brick wall at top speed have robbed the situation of anything that might evoke a pity response. Their incompetence and refusal to believe that the anime industry doesn't work the same way it did back in 1985 have reduced their antics to the level of Wile E. Coyote... we watch them execute their absurd little plans knowing for a certainty that no matter what they do they'll never succeed. The only thing in question is how badly they're going to be hurt when it's all over.

If insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, Harmony Gold is barking mad.

Even if this gets made, it's guaranteed to end the same way as Shadow Chronicles. Why? Robotech Academy is supposed to be able to bring in a new generation of fans if it goes to air, but Robotech Academy is no ambassador. Every faction, plot point, and character has SOME contextually-vital connection to the original series... the original series that 99.9% of their target audience is not going to have any knowledge of. It's set as a side story to a series that was never animated, full of characters whose defining character trait is a tangential relationship to an absentee character or someone who was never characterized to begin with, and it relies on the audience having foreknowledge of the least popular saga of Robotech to know about or care who the antagonists in the series even are or why they think they can find what they're looking for on Earth. This isn't like Frontier, where having seen a lot of what came before was merely a bonus... for this mess, you need to have seen Robotech's original series AND seen or read some version of Robotech II: the Sentinels to have any idea who these people are or why you should care.

This is the exact same problem they ran into with Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, where the "sibling nobody ever mentioned" main character was lambasted as an author-insert fantasy persona of Tommy Yune, and a cast full of expies did nothing at all to endear themselves to the audience.

[Mommar]

I think what I find interesting about this whole kickstarter is the level of effort expended to avoid producing a good and/or desired product. I suppose people more familiar with Robotech and Harmony Gold than I may not see this as revelatory. To me, I'm amazed by the lack of merit or appeal in any part of the Robotech Academy promotion. In point of fact, the only major advertising/marketing push for this kickstarter is that it features "Robotech" in the name.

The biggest modern entertainment properties are sold on brands because the brand is strong enough to sell itself (Star Wars, Star Trek, etc). When the brand isn't strong enough to sell itself, selling requires a hook.

You can sell a good idea, like Inception

You can sell attractive style, like Mad Men

You can sell social relevance, like Avatar

You can sell a male power fantasy, like James Bond

Now look at the Robotech brand, the brand we are told is supposed to sell. Except, it's not selling. A history of failed sequels, one finished sequel that never made mark financially or critically, a struggling kickstarter, etc. So if the brand isn't selling, what is the hook? There is no publically shared belief, passion or confidence in Robotech Academy coming from anyone in Harmony Gold. No one is selling the actual Robotech Academy idea, the Robotech Academy story, the Robotech Academy style, etc. Every marketing attempt in this kickstarter is designed to sell Robotech Academy for any reason other than Robotech Academy itself...

An attempt to sell nostalgia...

An attempt to sell as if it was "Carl Macek's vision"...

An attempt to sell the "Enemy Spy" donation tier...

An attempt to sell by begging for money from your social circles...

Robotech Academy is good because it has Robotech in the name, therefore Robotech Academy is good...LOL-what? It never occurs to the folks making Robotech Academy that maybe they should sell a good idea, or sell a style people want, or sell some kind of relevance to a modern audience, or sell...something. But there's nothing there. You're meant to accept this kickstarter because, well "reasons". Because, well "Robotech".

Success or fail, I'm interested to see what happens with this kickstarter just for the way it's trying to be sold.

Wait, Avatar was socially relevant? I thought it sold based on being flashy 3D... and James Cameron's name.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Mommar

[Duke Togo]

Yeah, was clearly a 3D showcase. There was nothing relevant about Avatar's story.

[coronadlux]

"ROBOTECH 3D"

Now give me your money

[Mr March]

Well, Harmony Gold's sunk a lot of time and energy over the last fourteen years into trying to condition Robotech fans to blindly and obediently buy anything and everything they arbitrarily slap the word "Robotech" on. They spent a bunch of time telling an assortment of hilariously transparent lies about Macross and the other original shows, and quietly endorsed the jackassery that their volunteer moderators and the stooges of those moderators were perpetrating by podcast. They worked damn hard to put the Robotech fans in an adversarial relationship with anime hobbyists in general and Macross fans in particular to maintain that captive audience of theirs.

That sounds right to me. Then I think what I'm seeing here is a company trapped in a silo of it's own making, buying into their own propaganda; a lie which it appears is finally catching up with them in cold, hard numbers for poor kickstarter.

I think it would help HG's community if they updated their site. It's looked the same for over 10 years! Not a HG hate post, just a thought.

I've not been to the website, but I'd agree that as a whole, Harmony Gold should spend much more effort to take care of their brand rather than letting it wallow in squalor for the 5 years in between each failed sequel.

Wait, Avatar was socially relevant? I thought it sold based on being flashy 3D... and James Cameron's name.

Don't mistake me as a fan of Avatar, because I hated that movie. I was just pulling examples off the top of my head. But if flashy 3D is all it takes to get $2 billion, every summer box office movie would be making that much. I won't deny that "spectacle" is a large part of Avatar, but when every big movie is spectacle as it is today, Avatar's hook was it's story/relevance to a generation of white guilt/environmentally-conscious fans. Or perhaps that's just my own biased perception due to the large amount of insufferable way-into-Avatar fans that I have to endure in my film social circles. Forgive me if my analogy for Avatar is not quite accurate

Edited July 23, 2014 by Mr March

[Seto Kaiba]

That sounds right to me. Then I think what I'm seeing here is a company trapped in a silo of it's own making, buying into their own propaganda; a lie which it appears is finally catching up with them in cold, hard numbers for poor kickstarter.

They're pretty committed to the lie too... McKeever's still trying to sell the people protesting that Harmony Gold needs to get out of the way of Macross licensing on the old lie that they own the distribution rights to ALL of Macross's sequels and derivatives. That alone reeks of a certain kind of desperation.

[Duke Togo]

They're pretty committed to the lie too... McKeever's still trying to sell the people protesting that Harmony Gold needs to get out of the way of Macross licensing on the old lie that they own the distribution rights to ALL of Macross's sequels and derivatives. That alone reeks of a certain kind of desperation.

If they owned the rights they'd be distributing them.

[Flaming Guantlet]

Well, Harmony Gold's sunk a lot of time and energy over the last fourteen years into trying to condition Robotech fans to blindly and obediently buy anything and everything they arbitrarily slap the word "Robotech" on. They spent a bunch of time telling an assortment of hilariously transparent lies about Macross and the other original shows, and quietly endorsed the jackassery that their volunteer moderators and the stooges of those moderators were perpetrating by podcast. They worked damn hard to put the Robotech fans in an adversarial relationship with anime hobbyists in general and Macross fans in particular to maintain that captive audience of theirs.

Mr.March

That sounds right to me. Then I think what I'm seeing here is a company trapped in a silo of it's own making, buying into their own propaganda; a lie which it appears is finally catching up with them in cold, hard numbers for poor kickstarter.

Why am I suddenly reminded of North Korea as I read that sentence? Hell I'll bet they have a private office slogan, going along the lines of "Robotech Macross is BEST Macross!". Yikes.

[Seto Kaiba]

If they owned the rights they'd be distributing them.

Funnily enough, several folks on the Kickstarter called him on it, saying pretty much exactly that... "If you had the distribution rights to the rest of Macross, you wouldn't be f'ing around with this Kickstarter nonsense".

It's kind of a pathetic knee-jerk effort to silence the increasingly vocal protests against Harmony Gold forcing no-export-for-you status on Macross when they can't do anything useful with Robotech. I guess tomorrow we'll see what the wages of sin are.

Why am I suddenly reminded of North Korea as I read that sentence? Hell I'll bet they have a private office slogan, going along the lines of "Robotech Macross is BEST Macross!". Yikes.

Not the first time someone in this thread has drawn a parallel to North Korean propaganda... it seems like, just as in North Korea, the ones writing and disseminating the propaganda have an unrealistically low opinion of everyone else's intelligence. Unlike the North Koreans, it seems Harmony Gold isn't clear on how this "internet" thing they keep hearing about lets just about any idiot off the street find enough information to poke their claims full of holes.

[taksraven]

I think it would help HG's community if they updated their site. It's looked the same for over 10 years! Not a HG hate post, just a thought.

Good point. The site looks really ugly and outdated. The forum section is not particularly readable either. (and I'm not just talking about the content)

I think that the way they have run those forums has hurt them big time. I know it's part of a commercial website and all but just the same, the Orwellian 2+2=5 mentality that seems to exist over there is beyond belief, with dissenting fans becoming "unpersons" FFS!

And I'm not just whinging sour grapes either 'cause I was banned. I made a joke after Macek's death that was in extremely poor taste and I did deserve banning but when I hear about others being banned just because they are dissatisfied with the company's product and want to express their dissatisfaction, I think its incredible.

How many people have they banned from their forum who probably would have been willing to spend more on their "product" if the output increased and/or the quality was improved? And then those who are somehow left behind on the forums get trolled by someone who LOVES HIS CAPS!!!???

Its ridiculous.

[Agent ONE]

You guys are negative... I want this to happen! I have been emailing people this all day:

"please DONATE money to a well established real-estate company on its 6th attempt for a sequel to an 80's cartoon they have the rights to"

[Hoptimus]

Well I can't wait to read about the SDCC panel tomorrow via soME MOron that will probably video it for us all to watch them weave their sob story...

[coronadlux]

Well I can't wait to read about the SDCC panel tomorrow via soME MOron that will probably video it for us all to watch them weave their sob story...

Since I don't have buckets of money to spend on anything other than rent, I will take Memo's video service and watch it on youtube. I want to see if any backers will show up and ask the hard questions. Or will they be banned from the panel too?

[Seto Kaiba]

Good point. The site looks really ugly and outdated. The forum section is not particularly readable either. (and I'm not just talking about the content)

Well, yeah... but according to McKeever, The Powers That Be at Harmony Gold don't give a damn about any part of the site that doesn't directly bring in a profit. Essentially, the store is all they care about and the rest is a massive blind spot.

I think that the way they have run those forums has hurt them big time. I know it's part of a commercial website and all but just the same, the Orwellian 2+2=5 mentality that seems to exist over there is beyond belief, with dissenting fans becoming "unpersons" FFS!

[...]

How many people have they banned from their forum who probably would have been willing to spend more on their "product" if the output increased and/or the quality was improved? And then those who are somehow left behind on the forums get trolled by someone who LOVES HIS CAPS!!!???

THERE! ARE! FOUR! LIGHTS!

The funny part is, the other half of the Robotech.com Two Stooges routine (Maverick_LSC) once expressed to me that that was actually his motivation for deleting posts and banning people for speaking critically of the Shadow Chronicles or asking questions about Harmony Gold's (in)ability to use Macross in future works. The exact moon logic he gave was that those touchy topics had the potential to directly hurt Robotech if prospective fans or someone from Warner Bros were to see it. Put simply, his stance on those matters was that anything other than slavish, unquestioning praise for Robotech was hurting the franchise.

That attitude - that questioning even the most obvious lies told by Harmony Gold - was an unforgivable sin did so much damage... and the Kickstarter comments REALLY show it. There are a lot of people snapping back at the Harmony Gold volunteer thought police now, and a fair amount of snide commentary about their unthinking devotion. There are a lot of people who would almost certainly be pledging who are not, or who would pledge more than they have, had Harmony Gold not done that.

You guys are negative... I want this to happen! I have been emailing people this all day:

"please DONATE money to a well established real-estate company on its 6th attempt for a sequel to an 80's cartoon they have the rights to"

Well, when you put it like that it sounds completely reasonable...

Since I don't have buckets of money to spend on anything other than rent, I will take Memo's video service and watch it on youtube. I want to see if any backers will show up and ask the hard questions. Or will they be banned from the panel too?

I don't think they can preemptively ban people from the panel... you have to actually do something at the convention to earn your forcible ejection, like pie Tommy Yune in front of an audience.

I'm sure there will be some backers who show up and attempt to ask the hard questions. I'm equally sure that Harmony Gold will have some memorized form answer rebuttals that rely on obfuscating weasel words and unclear language to counter them. That is, after all, how they've been dodging the Macross rights thing every time it comes up.

[CoreyD]

What's to say that they won't pre-screen questions?

[Vifam7]

I think what I find interesting about this whole kickstarter is the level of effort expended to avoid producing a good and/or desired product. I suppose people more familiar with Robotech and Harmony Gold than I may not see this as revelatory. To me, I'm amazed by the lack of merit or appeal in any part of the Robotech Academy promotion. In point of fact, the only major advertising/marketing push for this kickstarter is that it features "Robotech" in the name.

The biggest modern entertainment properties are sold on brands because the brand is strong enough to sell itself (Star Wars, Star Trek, etc). When the brand isn't strong enough to sell itself, selling requires a hook.

[shortened for quoting purposes]

Good points.

And let's say the Kickstarter funding actually does succeed. Then what? They say a 24 min. pilot will be made and it'll be used to pitch to the networks. What makes anyone believe that a network will pick it up and fund a series? A 20+ year old property that ...

now has very little name recognition...has had lackluster success since the end of the original series... that the new series is trying to tie to....by a company that hasn't produced much or has had much success in recent memory?

They might have more success if it wasn't Robotech.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Vifam7

[Seto Kaiba]

And let's say the Kickstarter funding actually does succeed. Then what? They say a 24 min. pilot will be made and it'll be used to pitch to the networks. What makes anyone believe that a network will pick it up and fund a series? A 20+ year old property that ...

now has very little name recognition...has had lackluster success since the end of the original series... that the new series is trying to tie to....by a company that hasn't produced much or has had much success in recent memory?

They'll probably run into more problems than just Robotech's lack of name recognition and terrible reputation... everything in the story concept for Robotech Academy requires prior knowledge of not just Robotech's original series, but also of Robotech II: the Sentinels, an aborted project whose sole pseudocanon depiction has been out of print for decades.

It's no ambassador, and the only thing it'll do for its audience is leave them more lost than... well... Lost.

[akt_m]

Whoever is ParasiteX and Seina, they are doing a good job at keeping all the roboturds in denial. Good job both!

Edited July 24, 2014 by akt_m

[505thAirborne]

The more we discuss this topic I keep thinking that if HG were smart and thats a stretch, if a Kickstarter is their only real option at this point for funding a new project, why not pitch the idea of Robotech II "The Sentinels", if you're a Die-hard RT fan I'll bet you'd want this story revived with modern day Anime/CGI the way Macek had intended, I can almost guarantee you the KS goal would be met by now. Yes, I know they tried years ago and it never made it passed 3 partial episodes, still you'd have a better shot with that story line then what Yune is pitching.

But with Shadow Chronicles being a dud, Shadow Rising being MIA & every other project failed and this new story which sounds horrible, Sentinels would have been a safer route, in fact I would have pitched in $$ to see that happen.

Just my thought.

P.S. ParasiteX is probably a HG employee or an insane RT fan!

[Einherjar]

Whoever is ParasiteX, he is doing a good job at keeping all the roboturds in denial. Good job man!

Bonus points for potentially endangering the success of the Kickstarter even further.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Einherjar

[EXO]

Because Sentinels is already seen as a failed attempt. They really need that LAM to be able to pitch duds like that again, assuming that the LAM is even successful. Even if this KS passes 500k... it would have been better for it to hit it out of the ballpark to even be taken seriously. If you go into a studio and showed them the numbers of supporter for this project, they'd be scared to touch it. And on top of all that, you'd need to show an incredible looking pilot that's up to today's standards that can be done on a budget. Those are the people that are really going to need to know where the 500k went and how much each episode is going to cost them. If it happens I'd be interested to see if Creavision makes the cut...

Man I'm still hoping they pull it out of the hat.

What am I going to do with all this popcorn?

[Seto Kaiba]

That's weird... it looks like someone pulled their money out. It went down by $30 over the last hour... I wonder if they're starting to try to kick the critics out. You could almost understand them doing it, since today's "big reveal" at SDCC was (reportedly) that they went and found some vanity press company to print the Robotech Academy artbook backer reward. Not a lot of ways to polish that turd.

Kicktraq's prediction actually went up 1% thanks to that guy who chipped in a few grand to get to the $10k tier yesterday, though it's still sitting at a mere 64% and looks like it'll start trending back down unless there's a surge day tomorrow.

SideKick's hit an all-time low for its prediction of this getting funded, a whopping 7% chance of success.