The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Seto Kaiba]

Has there been any more information about this spaceplane published?

(image from page 1, Frontier Tech thread vol III, originally posted by redwolf, rehosted to tumblr to save his bandwidth)

None that I'm aware of, no.

[RedWolf]

Do we have any info in this orbital structure in Macross II? The Macross Cannons were docked with it. Is it the second Factory Satellite UN Spacy snatched?

[Seto Kaiba]

Do we have any info in this orbital structure in Macross II? The Macross Cannons were docked with it. Is it the second Factory Satellite UN Spacy snatched?

a-l.macross.ii.lovers.again.cd2.divx51.ogm_snapshot_01.03.14_2015.06.23_06.29.19.jpga-l.macross.ii.lovers.again.cd2.divx51.ogm_snapshot_01.03.16_2015.06.23_06.30.13.jpg

It's not a factory satellite, it's just the "Macross Cannon base"... one of the orbital staging areas for the Sol system's six Macross Cannon-class gunships.

[RedWolf]

It's not a factory satellite, it's just the "Macross Cannon base"... one of the orbital staging areas for the Sol system's six Macross Cannon-class gunships.

Are there more these?

[Seto Kaiba]

Are there more these?

Two in total, IIRC.

[RedWolf]

Two in total, IIRC.

Interesting, thanks!

[calubin_175]

I was wondering what makes the VF-17 series classified as a heavy fighter? If it is due to the internal weapons, than even the VF-4 and VF-22 have a substantial amount of them.

The VF-171 series could attach extra weapons via its armored pack with minimal increase to the size of its fuselage, unlike the Armored VF-25.

[Valkyrie Driver]

I was wondering what makes the VF-17 series classified as a heavy fighter? If it is due to the internal weapons, than even the VF-4 and VF-22 have a substantial amount of them.

The VF-171 series could attach extra weapons via its armored pack with minimal increase to the size of its fuselage, unlike the Armored VF-25.

Traditionally, a heavy fighter is a twin engined (moot since most if not all valks have at least 2 engines), heavily armed, long range aircraft. The VF-19 would fall into this category, save for one critical point, it's mission. The VF-19 was given the the performance to act as an air/space superiority fighter and mostly performed that mission, where as the VF-17 series was intended to punch through a fighter screen, and hit the enemy's Capital ships.

The VF-17 isn't an interceptor, or a fleet defense fighter (though that's what it became in the VF-171).

Let's look at the Armaments on the VF-17

From Macross Mecha Manual:

2 x fixed anti-aircraft laser gun turrets (mounted center dorsal section in Fighter/GERWALK mode, becomes head turret in Heavy Battroid mode)

2 x fixed small-bore forward laser guns (mounted left/right of cockpit)

2 x fixed medium-bore laser beam guns, each gun featuring one retractable and one traversable opposite-facing barrels (mounted on dorsal section in Fighter mode and in forearm sections in GERWALK/Heavy Battroid modes)

1 x MC-17A 40mm multipurpose seven-barrelled gatling gun pod, featuring retractable handle and fore grip, folding stock, muzzle sensors, and strap (mounted in ventral fuselage in Fighter/GERWALK mode with an exit port and stealth covers, ejectable from lower leg to be used in arm manipulator Heavy Battroid mode); 1 x spare gun pod magazine or 1 x gun pod beam adaptor (stored inside lower main fuselage/opposite lower leg section).

2 x internal micro-missile launchers (mounted left/right of dorsal main fuselage with two launcher ports each)

7 internal systems (including the gun pod because of internal mounting), compare to the 3 internal systems on the VF-19 (excluding the gun pod since it's an external mount and the missionized pallets in the bays), add in the Beam cannon adapter on the VF-17, you have a tremendous amount of firepower, in addition to the obvious feature of the VF-17 being physically heavier than the VF-19. 11.85 metric tons (VF-17D) vs 8.55 metric tons (VF-19F). I compared the team member versions, since they are the most representative of the production runs.

I hope that answers your question.

[Seto Kaiba]

I was wondering what makes the VF-17 series classified as a heavy fighter? If it is due to the internal weapons, than even the VF-4 and VF-22 have a substantial amount of them.

The VF-171 series could attach extra weapons via its armored pack with minimal increase to the size of its fuselage, unlike the Armored VF-25.

If I had to hazard a guess based on the "virtues" of the design mentioned in Macross Chronicle, it would be that it's a "heavy" VF because of the combination of the design's excellent defensive strength and payload capabilities.

[Primus1X]

What aircraft are these?

Source: Super Dimensional Fortress Macross Episode 01 Boobytrap Timestamp: 5 minutes, 15 seconds frame 13/24

Edited June 27, 2015 by Primus1X

[Valkyrie Driver]

I think I can say for certain the one on the left is the F-203 Dragon II. The other two I know I've seen but I can't find any links to them. The middle one might be a badly drawn VF-1.

/edit

The one on the right is a FL-200 Mistral, according to MAHQ, but that's the only source I have that says that, so that may be debatable.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Valkyrie Driver

[Seto Kaiba]

What aircraft are these?

Source: Super Dimensional Fortress Macross Episode 01 Boobytrap Timestamp: 5 minutes, 15 seconds frame 13/24

Apart from the Mistral in the foreground, there is no ID on those planes... just background filler, I'd guess.

[calubin_175]

Okay, thanks for defining the heavy VFs.

With respect to uptime, I also noticed that in Macross 7, the VF-17s and 19s did not have to sortie with a space super pack for regular deployment, whereas the VF-11s had to have them. OF course, this meant the two high performance crafts had enough fuel and a couple of internal missiles.

Likewise, the VF-25 always sortied with a FAST pack on(super, armored or tornado), and it is contrasted with the VF-27 which has some integrated super pack already due to its extra engines and missile launchers.

So adopting the simplified heavy fighter VF-171 as a mainstay fleet defense fighter makes sense if they want something that doesn't require super pack for standard space borne operations.

Edited June 28, 2015 by calubin_175

[Primus1X]

So it is definitely the Mistral? All the searches I've done lead me to this link http://nanashino.macrossmecha.info/aerospcraft/mim31.html but unfortunately it is defunct.

[Seto Kaiba]

So it is definitely the Mistral? All the searches I've done lead me to this link http://nanashino.macrossmecha.info/aerospcraft/mim31.html but unfortunately it is defunct.

That link probably wouldn't have taken you to the right plane anyway... the MiM-31 was the Anti-UN Alliance fighter from Claudia's flashback episode in the original series.

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/karyovin.htm

Apart from one or two pieces of art, there isn't really any coverage of the Mistral.

[Valkyrie Driver]

What I want to know, is does the VF-171 have all of the same armaments and performance specs of the VF-17? Is it basically that, plus some avionics and structural upgrades based of the VF-19 tech?

[JB0]

With respect to uptime, I also noticed that in Macross 7, the VF-17s and 19s did not have to sortie with a space super pack for regular deployment, whereas the VF-11s had to have them.

It's worth noting that in Macross 7, the VF-17 was also regularly launched from an electromagnetic catapult(read as: rail gun) towards combat, so it was already burning rubber on the space highway before the engines were lit(can I possibly make this metaphor more painful?).

That's a significant factor for space combat, and without the EM catapult, it probably WOULD have used some sort of auxillary fuel/thruster assembly.

[Primus1X]

That link probably wouldn't have taken you to the right plane anyway... the MiM-31 was the Anti-UN Alliance fighter from Claudia's flashback episode in the original series.http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/karyovin.htm

Apart from one or two pieces of art, there isn't really any coverage of the Mistral.

The Mistral has the tail fins on the exhaust so is it most likely that?

[Primus1X]

Regarding Yoshio's parents, at first assumed the guy standing next to Minmay in the grey sweater was Yoshio's dad. So are Roy, Minmay and Yoshio the only named characters introduced in this scene and everyone else are just unnamed extras?

Source: Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 1 Boobytrap 7 minute, 37 seconds, frame 22 out of 24.

[Seto Kaiba]

What I want to know, is does the VF-171 have all of the same armaments and performance specs of the VF-17? Is it basically that, plus some avionics and structural upgrades based of the VF-19 tech?

Nope... the VF-171 design changed a LOT of stuff from the original VF-17 design it was based on.

The redesigned (simplified) transformation resulted in the bi-directional medium-bore beam guns in the forearms being cut from the design entirely. Also, the internal micro-missile launchers in the wing root had their number of exit ports reduced from 2 to 1, those laser cannons on the head and alongside the cockpit were replaced by beam cannons, it got a new gun pod, and wings gained six new pylons for externally-carried ordinance.

The engines weren't unchanged either... they got a less powerful version of the VF-17's engine with 17% (93.5kN) less output than the VF-17D and gained 300kg of mass.

On the plus side, it did gain improvements in avionics, active stealth, aerodynamics, etc.

The Mistral has the tail fins on the exhaust so is it most likely that?

Nah, the Mistral is a completely different aircraft... it's just that link you found to Nanashi's defunct website would've taken you to the wrong aircraft. We have info on the MiM-31, which isn't at that airshow, we don't have anything for the Mistral because it's just part of the scenery.

Regarding Yoshio's parents, at first assumed the guy standing next to Minmay in the grey sweater was Yoshio's dad. So are Roy, Minmay and Yoshio the only named characters introduced in this scene and everyone else are just unnamed extras?

Source: Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 1 Boobytrap 7 minute, 37 seconds, frame 22 out of 24.

Pretty much, yeah... there's a caricature of Kawamori in the background of one of those crowd shots tho.

[Gubaba]

Regarding Yoshio's parents, at first assumed the guy standing next to Minmay in the grey sweater was Yoshio's dad. So are Roy, Minmay and Yoshio the only named characters introduced in this scene and everyone else are just unnamed extras?

Source: Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 1 Boobytrap 7 minute, 37 seconds, frame 22 out of 24.

That's not Yot-chan's dad. His parents appear in episode 2.

[Einherjar]

This might be a complicated question for this thread, but has anyone been following up with the Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty regarding intellectual property? Is there anything to worry about when it comes to Macross if it is ever adopted?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership_intellectual_property_provisions

[JB0]

I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me it won't change a thing. Harmony Gold's status quo is grandfathered in.

If it weren't for that, it would be a boon, as it seems it would prohibit HG from registering Macross trademarks.

[RedWolf]

Do we have any fluff on Macross II cities?

Edited June 29, 2015 by RedWolf

[calubin_175]

I would like to know the story behind the VF-19's limited production numbers(not as high as VF-1 or VF-11). It beated the YF-21 in being the next generation fighter(as a concept model or mainstay). The VF-19A was very high performance and required highly skilled pilots to operate and hence was deployed in limited numbers. The modified F and S types were simplified with the canards removed and wings changed. However, it was still too high performance and difficult to control and eventually the VF-171 took the spot as mainstay.

So if we go by high low mix, the VF-11 got replaced by the VF-171, while the VF-17 got replaced by both the VF-19 and VF-22, with the VF-19 still being considered to replace the VF-11 but failed.

The VF-19 was formally adopted in 2041, and the VF-171 had its first flight in 2046, one year after the events of Macross 7 (2045).

VF-1(2008) lasted less than 10 years, being replaced by the VF-4(2012) and later the VF-5000(2020). The VF-11 began production in 2029 and the VF-171 was introduced in 2046, with the EX upgrade in 2059. So each mainstay lasted around 10 to 15 years.

Edited June 29, 2015 by calubin_175

[Mr March]

RedWolf

I don't know about trivia, but I think I have some line art of the stuff in one of my magazines featuring Macross II art. Was there anything specific you were looking for?

calubin_175

Have we had any official numbers or history on the production of the YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur? I think it's a big assumption to suggest the VF-19 was not successful or wasn't built in as large number as other craft because strictly speaking, no one knows. Remember, the reason the VF-171 Nightmare Plus was featured in Macross Frontier as the main NUNS main variable fighter was a "production" reason on the part of Shoji Kawamori, not a "story" or "in-universe" reason. As I said in another thread about this very topic, the VF-19 could have been a dead end production run or it could have been widely adopted or somewhere in between. Simple fact is we don't know. There's numerous colony fleets, worlds and outposts that could be operating entire fleets of the VF-19 Excalibur all off screen. In fact, it's very likely some are, given what is written in the offical Macross fiction about many of the variable fighter production lines.

I'd also be careful assuming the VF-171 Nightmare Plus is easier to control for the average pilot than the VF-19 Excalibur. Official trivia for both says there were designed specifically for ease of control and there's no direct comparison of which I'm aware.

[Primus1X]

Nope... the VF-171 design changed a LOT of stuff from the original VF-17 design it was based on.

The redesigned (simplified) transformation resulted in the bi-directional medium-bore beam guns in the forearms being cut from the design entirely. Also, the internal micro-missile launchers in the wing root had their number of exit ports reduced from 2 to 1, those laser cannons on the head and alongside the cockpit were replaced by beam cannons, it got a new gun pod, and wings gained six new pylons for externally-carried ordinance.

The engines weren't unchanged either... they got a less powerful version of the VF-17's engine with 17% (93.5kN) less output than the VF-17D and gained 300kg of mass.

On the plus side, it did gain improvements in avionics, active stealth, aerodynamics, etc.

Nah, the Mistral is a completely different aircraft... it's just that link you found to Nanashi's defunct website would've taken you to the wrong aircraft. We have info on the MiM-31, which isn't at that airshow, we don't have anything for the Mistral because it's just part of the scenery.

Pretty much, yeah... there's a caricature of Kawamori in the background of one of those crowd shots tho.

Wait, so is it the Mistral that appears in episode 1 or not?

[RedWolf]

RedWolf

I don't know about trivia, but I think I have some line art of the stuff in one of my magazines featuring Macross II art. Was there anything specific you were looking for?

Just want to be sure these are Zentradi ships. If so why are they rebuilt as cities. Looks to me a bunch of LSTs and some Thurvel-Salan got converted. The last pic actually has a LST rear assembly.

Which makes me wonder if they can still fly and be space capable. Cause if use for emigration it would bean interesting contrast to the New Macross Class fleets the main continuity has.

[Seto Kaiba]

Do we have any fluff on Macross II cities?

Nothing of significance, no.

Just want to be sure these are Zentradi ships. If so why are they rebuilt as cities. Looks to me a bunch of LSTs and some Thurvel-Salan got converted. The last pic actually has a LST rear assembly.

They are... and the answer is "if you have a planet literally covered in wrecked ships that are structurally sound but not salvageable, why not use them for building materials?". The UN Spacy of Macross II was eyebrow deep in secondhand Zentradi warships, and more were being captured every time a rogue Zentradi fleet blundered into human-controlled space (once every 10 years or so...).

The Macross Cannon-class gunships are another example of using captured Zentradi warships to build something new... each of them was built around four captured, retrofitted Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleships.

Which makes me wonder if they can still fly and be space capable. Cause if use for emigration it would bean interesting contrast to the New Macross Class fleets the main continuity has.

No, they can't... they're just convenient structural building material. The emigrant fleets of the Macross II universe use the Macross-class SDFs and Megaroad-class ships well into the 2050's.

I would like to know the story behind the VF-19's limited production numbers(not as high as VF-1 or VF-11).

Unless I missed something in Variable Fighter Master File, we don't know how many VF-19's were made... and from other, official materials like Macross Chronicle we just know that the VF-19 was deemed unsuitable for extensive deployment.

The reasons given for the VF-19 being passed over for widespread adoption are:

• The high performance of the VF-19 and VF-22, both in engine output and maneuverability, exceeded the tolerances of a human body to such an extent that pilots frequently lost control of the aircraft during training. Various attempts to fix the problem were made (e.g. the VF-19F/S's control refinements), but no viable permanent solution was found.

• The VF-19 and VF-22 are extremely expensive.

• Isamu's little stunt with the YF-19 proved that the VF-19 and VF-22 were capable of independently penetrating Earth's defensive sphere, so the UN Forces officials were unwilling/reluctant to deploy it to emigrant fleets as-is (which, later, resulted in "Monkey Model" VF-19's like the VF-19P and VF-19EF.

• Unmanned aircraft demonstrated capabilities exceeding that of the VF-19 and VF-22, though they had their own issues and did not become the new main fighter either. (Based on Chronicle's descriptions, it sounds like they ended up being one of two main fighters alongside the VF-171.)

VF-1(2008) lasted less than 10 years, being replaced by the VF-4(2012) and later the VF-5000(2020). The VF-11 began production in 2029 and the VF-171 was introduced in 2046, with the EX upgrade in 2059. So each mainstay lasted around 10 to 15 years.

Those dates are a bit misleading... you're citing dates of first flight or introduction, not actual adoption of the main fighter role. The VF-1 Valkyrie was the main VF from 2008-2020, the VF-4 from 2020 to "after 2030" (and shared it with the VF-5000 for part of the period), the VF-11 from some point after 2030 to ~2050 (and technically shared it with the VF-14), and the VF-171 from ~2050 to the "present day" (2060).

(Mind you, having a new fighter become next main fighter doesn't mean the existing ones just disappeared... they were still using VF-1's alongside VF-4's and VF-5000's, etc. etc.)

Just because the VF-19 didn't become main VF of the (New) UN Forces doesn't mean it wasn't used in significant numbers... the Macross Galaxy fleet is known to have equipped their defense forces with a locally-produced version of the VF-19C, the Macross Frontier fleet had their own local variant that they built over 150 of (the VF-19EF), and so on.

Wait, so is it the Mistral that appears in episode 1 or not?

Yes. The Mistral is sitting on the airstrip in episode 1. The MiM-31 Karyobin, a completely different aircraft that link you found was for, is NOT present in that episode.

[RedWolf]

Nothing of significance, no.

They are... and the answer is "if you have a planet literally covered in wrecked ships that are structurally sound but not salvageable, why not use them for building materials?". The UN Spacy of Macross II was eyebrow deep in secondhand Zentradi warships, and more were being captured every time a rogue Zentradi fleet blundered into human-controlled space (once every 10 years or so...).

The Macross Cannon-class gunships are another example of using captured Zentradi warships to build something new... each of them was built around four captured, retrofitted Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleships.

No, they can't... they're just convenient structural building material. The emigrant fleets of the Macross II universe use the Macross-class SDFs and Megaroad-class ships well into the 2050's.

Since Megaroad-1 left with a Zentradi escort is pretty much the same except for the dates I suppose Megaroads and Macross class serve as the core ship of the fleet.

edit:

For those who played Macross M3 what unit did Moa's clone pilot? Variable Glaug or Final Weapon?

Edited July 1, 2015 by RedWolf

[Valkyrie Driver]

Nope... the VF-171 design changed a LOT of stuff from the original VF-17 design it was based on.

The redesigned (simplified) transformation resulted in the bi-directional medium-bore beam guns in the forearms being cut from the design entirely. Also, the internal micro-missile launchers in the wing root had their number of exit ports reduced from 2 to 1, those laser cannons on the head and alongside the cockpit were replaced by beam cannons, it got a new gun pod, and wings gained six new pylons for externally-carried ordinance.

The engines weren't unchanged either... they got a less powerful version of the VF-17's engine with 17% (93.5kN) less output than the VF-17D and gained 300kg of mass.

On the plus side, it did gain improvements in avionics, active stealth, aerodynamics, etc.

If the engines are the same only de-tuned, it wouldn't be any trick to take them back to their original spec, right, maybe even over-tune them (thinking in terms of an ace or team leader custom). I noticed the animation and the toy only have one launcher port, it still carries the same number of missiles just in a decreased salvo right? The missing forearm beam guns would explain the more traditional gerwalk mode. Though I don't understand why they would have cut them.

[Seto Kaiba]

If the engines are the same only de-tuned, it wouldn't be any trick to take them back to their original spec, right, maybe even over-tune them (thinking in terms of an ace or team leader custom). I noticed the animation and the toy only have one launcher port, it still carries the same number of missiles just in a decreased salvo right? The missing forearm beam guns would explain the more traditional gerwalk mode. Though I don't understand why they would have cut them.

Well, it's not the exact same engine... the VF-17 used the FF-2100X, while the VF-171 uses the FF-2110A. Still, it wouldn't be a tall order to either tune up the new engines or drop in a different, more powerful engine to make a command spec. model or something along those lines.

WRT the capacity of that launcher... I would assume that it's the same as the VF-17's, but nothing is actually said about the number of missiles carried inside of either launcher system, so that's a great big question mark.

As far as why the forearm beam guns were axed, Macross Chronicle's VF-171 Nightmare Plus mechanic sheet points to it being the result of the changes in the transformation system... specifically, the elimination of the "high speed GERWALK" configuration the VF-17 was so fond of using.

[popalemih]

Hello! I have some questions regarding some transformation elements of VFs.

1. When transforming from Battroid to Fighter how does the gun pod get stored back under the belly of the fighter, what moves it there?

2. How does the shield go from the rear of the fighter onto the left arm in Battroid on valks such as VF11, VF19, VF25?

On toys you just detach those parts and reattach them, but how does it work in the anime?

[azrael]

Hello! I have some questions regarding some transformation elements of VFs.

1. When transforming from Battroid to Fighter how does the gun pod get stored back under the belly of the fighter, what moves it there?

2. How does the shield go from the rear of the fighter onto the left arm in Battroid on valks such as VF11, VF19, VF25?

On toys you just detach those parts and reattach them, but how does it work in the anime?

Magic. Anime MAGIKU!!!!!

1. The gunpod on many VFs is stored on the forearm at a preset point or hardpoint. When switching modes, the system is designed to grab or place the gunpod from or to the forearm. It happens fairly quick which is why animation normally abbreviates it.

2. It doesn't move, much. They are likely on a short arm that helps displace it when switching modes but otherwise it doesn't move that much. For toys, it's much easier to use pegs and the like than devising an arm the length of your thumbnail that as fragile as a flat toothpick. In animation, you're likely never going to see it and would occur so quickly that there's no point in animating it. Unless you are an evil, evil, evil director who likes to punish your animators with detail work.

[Scyla]

Magic. Anime MAGIKU!!!!!

1. The gunpod on many VFs is stored on the forearm at a preset point or hardpoint. When switching modes, the system is designed to grab or place the gunpod from or to the forearm. It happens fairly quick which is why animation normally abbreviates it.

2. It doesn't move, much. They are likely on a short arm that helps displace it when switching modes but otherwise it doesn't move that much. For toys, it's much easier to use pegs and the like than devising an arm the length of your thumbnail that as fragile as a flat toothpick. In animation, you're likely never going to see it and would occur so quickly that there's no point in animating it. Unless you are an evil, evil, evil director who likes to punish your animators with detail work.

I would be the Darth Vader of directors.

Quick question: is there any information on what the head laser does while deploying the landing gear. on the VF-1/0 single head laser Valkyries. I assume that it rotates out of the way but in some images the room between the landing gear and the tip of the gunpod look rather narrow.